Re: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] SoC: status update
Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
Hi Ethan,
Since you are working on Web Interface, I have an important suggestion/request on the charset we use.
We will use UTF-8 exclusively on WUI, with the caveat that I will be sniffing any charset information contained in emails and attempt displaying (individual) emails with the charset referenced. Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset? I want to make translating as painless as possible but from what I can tell so far gettext is very low level and I suspect that people use more than just it to translate... am I right? ~ethan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:58 PM, emf wrote:
We will use UTF-8 exclusively on WUI, with the caveat that I will be sniffing any charset information contained in emails and attempt displaying (individual) emails with the charset referenced.
I'm sure this was ages ago, but IIRC, UTF-8 was discussed at some point and the decision was made not to use it because it's support was pretty spotty in the browsers of the time. I'm sure this has improved vastly now and UTF-8 makes the most sense.
Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset?
I want to make translating as painless as possible but from what I can tell so far gettext is very low level and I suspect that people use more than just it to translate... am I right?
Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan? To be honest, I'm not a translator (heck, I barely speak English despite years of at least 2 other languages in high school and college :). When I was working out the basic i18n support I implemented a stupid rot13 translation using nothing more sophisticated than XEmacs and the gettext tools. Please, can any i18n'ers help Ethan out with a better tool set? - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRKk7GHEjvBPtnXfVAQJ8SgP/dlOdTK59NTZrDrcWlSnD2iD29+rRazhx vO7xPUDpL68U2mhKhDVW7i3CN6afrvlR6yZ2+r6fxOJwQsEL1mjED4VCUQku6gQJ dCri7KNGGwFiLpWFSoq9OE35+p8IJg6mW1+rXokjBzuq76+uz9rI2leWhAcS1g/Y vMUeGZLhUCw= =LGTW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Barry Warsaw wrote:
I'm sure this was ages ago, but IIRC, UTF-8 was discussed at some point and the decision was made not to use it because it's support was pretty spotty in the browsers of the time. I'm sure this has improved vastly now and UTF-8 makes the most sense.
Yeah, that sounds like an early-90's conversation; UTF-8 is the one charset no browser messes up these days, as far as I know.
Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset?
Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan?
No love as of this writing. I'm continuing to kick the i18n ball down the field until I can do a translation myself (into gods-knows-what - I'll probably have to rely on my lovely and talented wife to give Russian/Italian a stab.)
When I was working out the basic i18n support I implemented a stupid rot13 translation using nothing more sophisticated than XEmacs and the gettext tools.
Yeah, I can do that if need be. I just assumed there was Something More out there; if not it might be worth the effort to put together a minimalist translation interface. ~ethan
Ethan replied to Barry:
Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset?
Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan?
No love as of this writing. I'm continuing to kick the i18n ball down the field until I can do a translation myself (into gods-knows-what - I'll probably have to rely on my lovely and talented wife to give Russian/Italian a stab.)
I've got MacOS X 10.4, but I don't do any sort of translation, and I don't have the slightest clue as to how you'd go about trying to do that. I don't speak any foreign language well enough to even think about making any attempt to do so. That said, I'd be glad to provide whatever help I can. -- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
On 05/07/2006, at 3:32 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:
Ethan replied to Barry:
Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset?
Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan?
No love as of this writing. I'm continuing to kick the i18n ball down the field until I can do a translation myself (into gods-knows-what - I'll probably have to rely on my lovely and talented wife to give Russian/Italian a stab.)
I've got MacOS X 10.4, but I don't do any sort of translation, and I don't have the slightest clue as to how you'd go about trying to do that. I don't speak any foreign language well enough to even think about making any attempt to do so.
That said, I'd be glad to provide whatever help I can.
Sorry I haven't been able to answer this before. :( I'm also on OSX. OK, sample translator workflow (different procdures for different projects!): Get files: email updates, download from web, CVS or SVN. Initiallize files with translation memory: gettext (msgmerge) or TMX, via my translation editor LocFactoryEditor [1], or use Pootle [2] Translate files: LocFactoryEditor, BBEdit (text editor)[3] or Pootle, depending on type and complexity of work Check files: gettext (msgfmt), translate toolkit (pofilter) [4], spellchecking (aspell, CocoaAspell [5] and a Debian script [6]) again via LFE and/ or Pootle Send in files: email, FTP, CVS or SVN You might like to look at the Debian/Wordforge plans for a complete translation infrastructure. [7]. I believe this is the future of i18n. You're welcome to ask me for more details. That's the skeleton. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN [1] http://www.triplespin.com/en/products/locfactoryeditor.html [2] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle [3] http://www.barebones.com/index.shtml [4] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/index [5] http://people.ict.usc.edu/~leuski/cocoaspell/home.html [6] svn://anonymous@svn.debian.org/svn/d-i/trunk/scripts/l10n/ [7] Not sure if this is documented in any one place, but check out the Pootle roadmap (http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/wordforge/ functional_specificaions) and threads starting in late May on translate-pootle (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ translate-pootle) and debian-i18n (http://lists.debian.org/debian- i18n/) about SoC, Wordforge and i18n infrastructure.
On Tuesday 11 July 2006 08:48, Clytie Siddall wrote:
You might like to look at the Debian/Wordforge plans for a complete translation infrastructure. [7]. I believe this is the future of i18n.
Since I am using launchpad now, I am confronted with rosetta. What do you think of rosetta vs wordforge? -Ace -- Babe I'm gonna see that you be back home in thirty days You don't give me no consolation I'm gonna take it to the United Nations I'm gonna see that you be back home in Thirty Days! - Chuck Berry Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace@suares.an -- maven n : someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field [syn: ace, adept, champion, sensation, mavin, virtuoso, genius, hotshot, star, superstar, whiz, whizz, wizard, wiz] - WordNet (r) 2.0 Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace@suares.an
On 13/07/2006, at 11:42 AM, Ace Suares wrote:
On Tuesday 11 July 2006 08:48, Clytie Siddall wrote:
You might like to look at the Debian/Wordforge plans for a complete translation infrastructure. [7]. I believe this is the future of i18n.
Since I am using launchpad now, I am confronted with rosetta. What do you think of rosetta vs wordforge?
In summary: Rosetta is not free software, Wordforge is free software. Rosetta has serious issues with access control and quality assurance which Wordforge does not. Rosetta is designed to work with one distro, Ubuntu, where the Wordforge tools are designed to work in many different situations, online, offline, as a backend or frontend, interfacing with other translation tools and structures, whatever the upstream project chooses. Rosetta is there, for Ubuntu users, so it's convenient. It doesn't work well outside Ubuntu, and has caused conflicts and a lot of wasted time for other projects. For example, the files on Rosetta are not current. You can sit down there for hours and translate a file which hasn't been translated before. You later find out that upstream, at the project which actually created that file, it has already been translated. The authorative work for any project can only occur under its management, or via direct cooperation with it. Rosetta doesn't work with the upstream projects at all. People logging into Rosetta right now can be changing our Mailman translations, and we won't even know about it. Due to the lack of quality control, the translations in Rosetta are often of low quality, causing the upstream project to receive outraged emails and bug reports about files they had already quality-checked, but which have been altered in Rosetta! Wordforge, for example Pootle, which is the online/offline translation interface, does not have any of these problems, and acts as an optional and carefully-coordinated part of upstream workflow. It's an excellent free-software project which supports the standards and works closely with any upstream project which chooses to use it. I recommend it. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
Dear fellows, I am pretty new to this translation stuff, but as I understand, using KBabel (under Linux +KDE) is working for us now. But I don't know what you ar elooking for exactly. There are these .po files and with KBabel or PoEditor (works under windows too) filling in the translations strings seems pretty trivial. But as I said, I am new to this and I have yet to upload the first translation (made by Jan Veuger for the Dutch language). Barry, I noticed you have some stuff on Launcpad, some bzr branches, but they seem not to work (no route to host for cvs.sourceforge). Could that be fixed since I' like to look at the branch more closely. Cheers, Ace On Thursday 29 June 2006 12:58, emf wrote:
Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
{snip}
Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset?
I want to make translating as painless as possible but from what I can tell so far gettext is very low level and I suspect that people use more than just it to translate... am I right?
~ethan _______________________________________________ Mailman-i18n mailing list Posts: Mailman-i18n@python.org Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/lists%40suares.an
-- "To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight and never stop fighting." - E. E. Cummings Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace@suares.an
participants (5)
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Ace Suares
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Barry Warsaw
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Brad Knowles
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Clytie Siddall
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emf