[python-advocacy] Python culture clash complaint

[Tennessee Leeuwenburg]

I wouldn't say it was diatribe. I found myself agreeing with many of his
comments, and it's a shame that presenting things in a civil manner is
thought of as being 'touchy feely'.

How the docs are written is an act of the community, ergo how someone reacts
to the docs is also a reaction to the community.

While a competitive / combative style of communication gives some people a
real buzz, and is something they enjoy, for others it is different. This is,
basically, why most official documentation tends to adopt a somewhat dry and
squeaky-clean tone. It's not because there's anyone who thinks it's
particularly wonderful, but because it's just not worth pissing people off.

Consider his quote from PEP-8:

*The second objection is typically cast as: "I am really telling a sequence
to join its members together with a string constant". Sadly, you aren't.

*Well, I can see how that would piss someone off. So why do it? For the
kicks? For the buzz that can come from standing up for the rightness of
things? I just don't see any point. It really doesn't matter that much
whether the call is delimiter.join(list) or list.join(delimiter). So I don't
think anyone needs to be told that it's sad how they can't see the
advantages in one particular method.*

*Most people, let's face it, have had their share of being crapped on
already in life. Why add to it?*
*
-Tennessee

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T <jeffh at dundeemt.com>
wrote:

> After reading his diatribe, he is not referring to how he is treated
> by the community , but rather his commentary is about the docs.  Maybe
> the truth could be pointed out out in a more touchy-feely manner but
> it doesn't change the fact of what join does.
>
> He then goes on to single out an unnamed irc member about his comment
> on line length. (PEP8) (And the writer was just lurking, not
> participating)  As a side note, when I first started with Python I
> couldn't see why tabs were inferior to spaces -- although it didn't
> take long for me to amend my ways, wisdom is always gained at a
> price.<g>  Python doesn't coerce you very much and most times gives
> you plenty of rope to trip yourself.
>
> Maybe I am completely off base, but it appears as if the writer is
> looking for a way to justify his decision to not like Python.  His
> remark about "fundamentalist religious methods of conversion" is sheer
> hyperbole.  He should have led off with that, instead I had to read to
> the end to confirm what I suspected.
>
> -Jeff
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Brad Allen <bradallen137 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Here is a blog from a developer exploring Python but getting frustrated
> with
> > the community attitude, which I find surprising:
> >
> >
> http://developmentadventures.blogspot.com/2008/05/culture-clash-with-python.html
> >
> > Excerpt:
> >
> > There is one aspect though that just really clashes with me; the
> community
> > is VERY quick to point out how you're wrong. It doesn't matter about
> what,
> > it's just you're wrong. I've found that most of the time, I am, but
> there's
> > this absoluteist tone that I sense that makes me completely understand
> why
> > the community has the "Pythonista" term applied.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Advocacy at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Hinrichs
> jeffh at dundeemt.com
> web: www.dundeemt.com
> blog: inre.dundeemt.com
> _______________________________________________
> Advocacy mailing list
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>
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