[Edu-sig] Some thoughts on RurPle / TurTle

francois schnell francois.schnell at gmail.com
Mon Jun 26 21:35:10 CEST 2006

On 26/06/06, Andre Roberge <andre.roberge at gmail.com> wrote:

> The latest version allows importing arbitrary images for the robot.

Great I didn't see that :)

 It will also require me to draw some "robot viewed from
> above" pictures which will stretch even more than before my artistic
> abilities! ;-)

I'm not an artist either but if I succeed (one day) to make something
descent I'll let you know.

> - For the sake of simplicity you've decided that the robot can only turn
> > left but never right. For me it makes Rur-ple quite "silly" and above
> all
> > this apparent "simplicity" (you can't go right) is generating
> *complexity*
> > quickly.
> Again, this was adopted from the original Karel the Robot. The idea
> here is to have an "obvious" need to introduce functions early on.
> Later, I make use of this when I implement a "better robot" that
> inherits from the original one but has been repaired so that it can
> turn right directly.

Ooops,  my apologies,  I understand  "why" now , I don't like the
implications but at least I understand it.

> My point, which was perhaps poorly explained, is that rur-ple is meant
> as a tool to introduce the whole of Python i.e. it is open ended in
> that regards.

Yes I think it's a strong point of rur-ple, I  also like that in xturtle
which give full access to Python.

  I always viewed Logo as a means to introduce programming within
> Logo's environment ... but not really practical outside of this
> (unlike Python).  I may have been prejudiced due to ignorance there.

I don't think Papert is interested at all in Logo as a "language" but only
as a possible vehicule for the maths and exploration concepts behind it (to
produce "hard-fun"  "tools to think with"/ microworlds /
differential/kinesthesic approach, etc ). That's why I think it could have a
great future with Python inside the "turtles" concepts.

> Apart from that, what's left of Rur-ple ?  ;-)

It was just my opinion but as I said  if think the robot  approach is very
valid  and you're  doing a great job.

Now I understand the left turn only but it seems strange for me :
When I was a kid, Japanimation and the Mecha genre invaded France and Italy
and it was a huge hit. At Christmas all boys had cool robot toys. I think if
we saw a robot which has been designed to turn left only but not right we
would have killed and bury him to preserve robots reputation :(

I guess I was spoiled ...

And as for your "French blood" complaints... I know they are
> well-intended and I much prefer to see such public criticism which I
> can use as motivation for improvements.  And being one of your
> cross-Atlantic French cousins myself, I can relate to this direct,
> outspoken approach. ;-)

Thanks for your explanations and honesty but I guess you also have more
diplomatic skills on your side of the Atlantic which is not bad. :)


> francois
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