[Mailman-Users] Sender modification

Richard Barrett r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk
Wed May 12 08:18:00 CEST 2004

On 12 May 2004, at 02:48, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:

> I'm going to ask why it is there at all?

Look under head "3.6.2. Originator fields" of RFC 2822. The relevant  
portion says:

    The "Sender:" field specifies the
    mailbox of the agent responsible for the actual transmission of the
    message.  For example, if a secretary were to send a message for
    another person, the mailbox of the secretary would appear in the
    "Sender:" field and the mailbox of the actual author would appear in
    the "From:" field.  If the originator of the message can be indicated
    by a single mailbox and the author and transmitter are identical, the
    "Sender:" field SHOULD NOT be used.  Otherwise, both fields SHOULD

View Mailman as being the secretary distributing a message for the  
actual message originator. Mailman is never the true originator of a  
posted message it is normally distributing.

In the usual circumstance, the the originator's address goes in the  
From: and the listname-bounces address (or listname address with the  
hack suggested) _should_ go in the Sender: in order to be RFC  

> I just checked over 50 messages
> and the only ones I have with the Sender and the Errors headers are
> those from Mailman.  If there are to be RFC compliant - why does no
> one else have them? (Errors I am guessing are for Mailman - but since
> it does not read that line...)
> (Even my tech bulletins from Microsoft, Apple and Symantec do not
> have them.)

No comment about selected originators or methodology. What are you  
trying to prove; no do not answer that I was just being rhetorical.

> From:           	Richard Barrett <r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk>
> Subject:        	Re: [Mailman-Users] Sender modification
> Date sent:      	Tue, 11 May 2004 17:17:23 +0100
> To:             	cgross at 2blc.com
> Copies to:      	Mailman-Users at python.org
>> Right near the end of
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp
>> you will find details of a hack to the MM source code for MM 2.1.x
>> which changes the Sender: header value from listname-bounces to
>> listname, while leaving the envelope sender as listname-bounces for
>> bounce handling. The line number referenced in the FAQ is approximate;
>> depending on what exact version of MM 2.1.x source you are running you
>> may find the line to be changed a few either way of the one  
>> stipulated.
>> This is an attempt to alleviate the pain that some users (and list
>> admins) appear to experience with the conflation of From: and Sender:
>> headers in the displayed From field of the web GUI of some versions of
>> some Microsoft MUAs. If that is your problem, this hack might help.
>> With well behaved MTAs that send bounce messages back to the envelope
>> sender this change should be safe but if it blows up in your face
>> because a badly behaved MTA sends a bounce back to the Sender header,
>> which is now the primary list address, and hence to the list itself,  
>> it
>> is on your head; you have been warned.
>> That said, the change is one-line-simple and easy to reverse if things
>> start to go pear shaped.
>> On 11 May 2004, at 16:17, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>> At 4:54 PM +0200 2004/05/11, cedric gross wrote:
>>>>  Is there a way to change the sender of mail (i.e.
>>>> mailman-user-bounce) with
>>>>  something more humain like : The Mailman User list
>>>>  <mailman-users at python.org) ?
>>> 	You can go throughout the Mailman code and change listname-bounces  
>>> to
>>> whatever you want, but this is not recommended.
>>> 	Bounces will actually come back to this address, so whatever you do,
>>> you have to be able to distinguish between bounces and original
>>> submissions.  But if you had a violent opposition to the string
>>> "-bounces" appearing anywhere, you could change this to be "-fred" or
>>> whatever else you may want.
>>>>  Or must I do it by canonical rewriting ?
>>> 	That would be an extremely bad idea.  You would be destroying vital
>>> information encoded in the envelope sender address, which could not  
>>> be
>>> recovered once a bounce occurred.
>>> 	See Mailman FAQ 2.2 at
>>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
>>> req=show&file=faq02.002.htp>
>>> and FAW 2.3 at
>>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?
>>> req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
>>> -- 
>>> Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>
>>> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>>> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>>>     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
>>>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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