[python-committers] List of all core developers
Donald Stufft
donald at stufft.io
Sat Aug 4 00:59:21 EDT 2018
> On Aug 3, 2018, at 1:52 PM, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 00:44 Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io <mailto:donald at stufft.io>> wrote:
> We should probably have a single source of truth for what a core developer is, and all other systems pull from that.
>
> Ah, but I think there might be a terminology clash here. Using MALs definition means that you can be a core developer but not have commit privileges due to relinquishing those privileges at some point. So I'm not sure what systems you are referring to that need to know if someone historically happened to be a core developer.
We have that I am aware of right now:
- GitHub
- bugs.p.o
- python-committers
And it sounds like Marc-Andre is looking to add to it:
- A third party/user facing list of developers, regardless of the technical status of their ability to commit (e.g. even if they don’t have a GitHub account).
There may be other systems that I can’t recall off the top of my head (is anything still in hg.python.org <http://hg.python.org/>? I dunno).
As of right now, I believe the list of who a core developer is and has historically been somewhat adhoc based upon who has permissions to commit things. Meaning that as we transition from one system to another we “lose” the ability to account for people over the years. This would also make it harder for someone to come back, because they’d have to track down someone who knew they were a core developer (and let’s be honest, human memory sucks so sometimes you’re just not sure if someone was or wasn’t).
So I think it would probably be a good thing if we had one central location that answers the question of who is and isn’t a core developer, that isn’t tied to the ACLs of one particular system that we happen to be using today. Ideally these other related systems (bugs.p.o, Github, etc) are then modified to pull from this thing as the singular source of truth. This could be as simple as a CSV/tom/yaml file sitting in a repository somewhere that lists all of the developers, their status etc, plus scripts that will synchronize access from that to the relevant places.
So for arguments sake, it could be a CSV file with the schema:
Name, Email, Active, bugs.p.o Username, GitHub username
And then a script that could be ran whenever that would check the permissions of the GitHub team for CPython, and ensure that anyone listed there has been added to the GitHub team (and probably anyone who isn’t, has been removed, to ensure that getting in this file is the _way_ you get access). Likewise bugs.p.o could pull from this, and Marc-Andre’s public facing list could as well.
Of course we can get fancier than a simple file somewhere, the key thing is that there is a single source of truth, that isn’t tied to one particular service or tool that we use (unless that tool is dedicated to managing this list of people), because anytime we tie maintaining this list of people to the technical aspects of giving someone an ACL to a particular system, then our list is going to become outdated anytime we switch systems (and some % of people won’t ever make the jump to the new system).
>
> Assuming what you mean is people with commit privileges, then we have the "lovely" complication of usernames being inconsistent for people across systems which is probably what is required to make any centralized list useful for systems to interact with. We could solve this by using a table instead of a list for people to list e.g. their GitHub and b.p.o usernames if people wanted to go that route.
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 2018, at 3:43 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com <mailto:mal at egenix.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Please note that the motivation for having a list similar to the
> > one we have for PSF Fellows is not to determine voting eligibility.
> >
> > This is about having a record of the core developer status available
> > to show to 3rd parties, e.g. to (potential) employers, organizations,
> > government agencies, etc.
> >
> > Having a place to also record the email addresses for internal
> > use such a voting or sending messages to the whole group
> > is a good idea nonetheless. This mailing list will likely already
> > serve that purpose.
> >
> >
> > On 02.08.2018 23:25, Brett Cannon wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 at 04:54 Stefan Richthofer <stefan.richthofer at gmail.com <mailto:stefan.richthofer at gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Again, this was in the (poorly conveyed) context of getting email
> >>>> addresses for them, or at least being able to contact them.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I always thought there were already at least three places containing the
> >>> necessary email addresses.
> >>>
> >>> * python-committers should be exactly this mailing list.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The list also has email archiving services as well as duplicate emails for
> >> people (e.g. I'm in it twice so that if I accidentally send an email from a
> >> personal email address it doesn't get held up in moderation).
> >>
> >>
> >>> * according to https://devguide.python.org/coredev/#issue-tracker <https://devguide.python.org/coredev/#issue-tracker> it is
> >>> mandatory for core developers to subscribe to the issue tracker which AFAIK
> >>> requires a confirmed email address.
> >>>
> >> * Every committer clearly must have signed the contributor agreement
> >>> https://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form/ <https://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form/> which also contains a
> >>> mandatory email field
> >>>
> >>> So why is it still necessary to get email addresses at all?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Because none of those necessarily have accurate email addresses at this
> >> point. E.g. even python-committers has had people dropped off due to too
> >> many email rejections. And if we hold a vote for a governance model we will
> >> need a place to send ballots.
> >>
> >> Now if the vote is open to any core developer (using MAL's definition of it
> >> being a lifetime title), then the subscription list for this mailing list
> >> is probably good enough with some manual grooming as long we are okay with
> >> long-dormant folk who predate this list not voting (which I'm personally
> >> fine with). But if we wanted a way to reach just people with commit
> >> privileges then that's a separate challenge.
> >>
> >> -Brett
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 2018-08-02 10:59 GMT+02:00 Eric V. Smith <eric at trueblade.com <mailto:eric at trueblade.com>>:
> >>>
> >>>> On 8/2/2018 3:32 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 02.08.2018 03:24, Eric V. Smith wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 8/1/2018 8:32 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think it would also be a good idea to include core developers
> >>>>>>> of other Python implementations in such a document, in
> >>>>>>> separate sections, e.g. for Jython, IronPython, PyPy,
> >>>>>>> Stackless, etc
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hmm, I don't think it is should be our (CPython) responsibility to
> >>>>>>> keep track and maintain the list of the core devs of alternate Python
> >>>>>>> implementations. Don't they have their own community / website? They
> >>>>>>> have their own repo, bug tracker, governance model, and everything,
> >>>>>>> right?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Agreed. We have a hard enough time keeping track of our own core
> >>>>>> developers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't really think we have a hard time doing this. The only
> >>>>> problem is that we never sat down and actually properly recorded
> >>>>> this in one place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I was specifically thinking of a way to stay in touch with core devs, or
> >>>> more specifically a way to send them email. In the past, before we moved to
> >>>> github, I took it upon myself to find email addresses (current or not) for
> >>>> all core devs, and I gave up without much success.
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree that we could probably come up with a list of names for people
> >>>> who have been given the "core dev" status.
> >>>>
> >>>> For our core devs, can't we just say that the CPython core devs are
> >>>>>> those with commit bits on the CPython repo? I realize that will
> >>>>>> eliminate some people who have been core developers and never moved to
> >>>>>> github, but if they bring it to our attention, we can add them easily
> >>>>>> enough.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> As discussed before, being a core developer is a status you
> >>>>> gain and never lose. There is a clear difference between have
> >>>>> commit rights to the (current) repo and this status.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Agreed. Again, this was in the (poorly conveyed) context of getting email
> >>>> addresses for them, or at least being able to contact them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> python-committers mailing list
> >>>> python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers>
> >>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> python-committers mailing list
> >>> python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers>
> >>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> python-committers mailing list
> >> python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers>
> >> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Marc-Andre Lemburg
> > eGenix.com
> >
> > Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Aug 03 2018)
> >>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ <http://www.egenix.com/>
> >>>> Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ <http://products.egenix.com/>
> >>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/ <http://zope.egenix.com/>
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
> >
> > eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
> > D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
> > Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
> > http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ <http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/>
> > http://www.malemburg.com/ <http://www.malemburg.com/>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers at python.org <mailto:python-committers at python.org>
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers>
> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20180804/ecf4ce69/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the python-committers
mailing list