[Python-Dev] Migrate python-dev to Mailman 3?

[Wes Turner]

On Thursday, October 26, 2017, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 10/26/2017 07:28 AM, Wes Turner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 26, 2017, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 26 October 2017 at 10:24, Victor Stinner
> >     <victor.stinner at gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >     > We are using Mailman 3 for the new buildbot-status mailing list
> and it
> >     > works well:
> >     >
> >     >
> >     https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/buildbot-status@
> python.org/
> >     >
> ...
> >
> >     My only use of the pipermail archives is to find permanent URLs for
> >     mails I want to refer people to. My usage goes as follows:
> >
> >     1. Google search for a post.
> >     2. Paste in the URL to an email.
> >
> >     Or, if I have the post already (usually in my email client).
> >
> >     1. Check the date and subject of the post.
> >     2. Go to the pipermail article by month, and scan the list for the
> >     subject and author.
> >     3. Click on the link, check it's the right email, copy the URL.
> >     4. Paste it into my email.
> >
> >     I don't use the archives for reading. If the above two usages are
> >     still available, I don't care. But in particular, the fact that
> >     individual posts are searchable from Google is important to me.
>
>
> A Google search narrowed with "site:mail.python.org" and perhaps
> "inurl:listname at python.org <javascript:;>" works for HyperKitty archives
> as well. Also,
> the archive itself has a "search this list" box.


Gmail also supports "list:python.org" now.


>
>
> ...> The complexity of this process is also very wastefully frustrating to
> > me. (Maybe it's in the next month's message tree? No fulltext search? No
> > way to even do an inurl: search because of the URIs?!)
>
>
> I don't see these issues. There is a full text search box on the archive
> page and I don't see the problem with Google inurl:


This URL style would work with inurl:

inurl:x.TLD/THREADID/msgid

These can't span across the year-month or otherwise catch other threads in
the result set:

inurl:mail.python.org/pipermail/astropy/2017-September/0001.html
inurl:mail.python.org/pipermail/astropy/2018-January/0002.html



>
>
> > Isn't there a way to append a permalink to the relayed message footers?
> > Google Groups and Github do this and it saves a lot of time.
>
>
> As you note below, there is an Archived-At: header. I have just
> submitted an RFE at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/432> to
> enable placing this in the message header/footer.
>
>
> > [Re-searches for things]
> >
> > Mailman3 adds an RFC 5064 "Archived-At" header with a link that some
> > clients provide the ability to open in a normal human browser:
> >
> > http://dustymabe.com/2016/01/10/archived-at-email-header-
> from-mailman-3-lists/
> >
> > I often click the "view it on Github" link in GitHub issue emails. (It's
> > after the '--' email signature delimiter, so it doesn't take up so much
> > room).
> >
> > "[feature] Add permalink to mail message to the footer when delivering
> > email"
> > https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues/27
>
>
> This needs to be in Mailman Core, not HyperKitty. As I note above, I
> filed an RFE with core and also referenced it in the HyperKitty issue


Thanks!


>
>
> >     Finally, how would a transition be handled? I assume the old archives
> >     would be retained, so would there be a cut-off date and people would
> >     have to know to use the old or new archives based on the date of the
> >     message?
> >
> >
> > Could an HTTP redirect help with directing users to the new or old
> archives?
>
>
> What we did when migrating security-sig is we migrated the archive but
> kept the old one and added this message and link to the old archive page.
>
> "This list has been migrated to Mailman 3. This archive is not being
> updated. Here is the new archive including these old posts."
>
> We also redirected
> <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/security-sig> to
> <https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/security-sig.python.org/>.
>
> We purposely didn't redirect the old archive so that saved URLs would
> still work.
>
> We did the same things for security-announce and clearly can do the same
> for future migrations.


Great.


>
> Finally note that Mailman 3 supports archivers other than HyperKitty.
> For example, one can configure a list to archive at
> www.mail-archive.com, in such a way that the Archived-At: permalink
> points to the message at www.mail-archive.com.


Someday someone will have the time to implement this in e.g. posterious or
hyperkitty or from a complete mbox:
https://github.com/westurner/wiki/wiki/ideas#open-source-mailing-list-extractor

Thanks again!


>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net <javascript:;>>        The highway is for
> gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
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