[Python-ideas] Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause

[Wes Turner]

On Saturday, September 15, 2018, Franklin? Lee <
leewangzhong+python at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am very disappointed with the responses to this thread. We have
> mockery, dismissiveness, and even insinuations about OP's
> psychological health. Whether or not OP is a troll, and whether or not
> OP's idea has merit, that kind of response is unnecessary and
> unhelpful.
>
> (While I lean toward OP being a troll, the fact that the OP's name is
> the same as a Canadian actress is insignificant. Chinese surnames are
> single-syllable, there are only so many one-syllable surnames, and
> "Samantha" is a common-enough name.)
>
> Since Antoine challenged Calvin to name names, I will name names. If
> the thread devolves into one-on-one fights, then you'll know why
> Calvin didn't do it.
>
> Antoine:
> - Accusing the OP of not being open-minded for proposing (not
> "insisting on"!) the idea at all.
>     "You ask others to be open-minded, but fail to show such an
> attitude yourself."
> - Labeling the OP's position as reactionary, and intolerant.
>     "And, as a French person, I have to notice this is yet another
> attempt to impose reactionary, intolerant American politics on the
> rest of the world (or of the Python community)."
>
> David Mertz: Sarcastically suggesting that we burn programming books
> if they use "beautiful" in their titles.
>
> Chris Angelico: This implied accusation:
>     "Not everyone assumes the worst about words."
>
> Oleg:
> - Dismissing the whole post as a troll.*
>     "Nice trolling, go on! :-D"
> - Calling the OP's idea stupid, and calling a different (settled)
> decision stupid. (One can argue Oleg isn't really calling anything
> stupid, but I preemptively say that's a stupid argument.)
>     "Removing master/slave is almost as stupid as ugly/beautiful."
> - Dismissing the stance as oversensitive offense-taking.
>     "People shouldn't try and take personal offense to things that
> haven't been applied to them personally, or, even worse, complain
> about a term applied to anything/anyone else in a way they perceive to
> be offensive."
> - Mockery: The entire email with this line is spent on mockery:
>     'I also propose to ban the following technical terms that carry
> dark meanings: "abort", "kill" and "execute" (stop the genocide!) ...'
>
> Greg: Another email spent entirely on mockery:
>     """If we're going to object to "slave", we should object to
> "robot" as well, since it's derived from a Czech word meaning "forced
> worker"."""
>
> * There is a difference between discussing whether it is a troll post
> and flippantly stating it as fact. The first brings up a relevant
> concern. The second says, "No one can reasonably believe what you
> claim to believe, so I won't treat you as a rational person."
>
> Jacco:
> - This is completely disrespectful and way over the line. Don't try to
> make a psychological evaluation from two emails, especially when it's
> just someone having an idea you don't like.
>     """However, if merely the word ugly being on a page can be
> "harmful", what you really need is professional help, not a change to
> Python. Because there's obviously been some things in your past you
> need to work through."""
> - Mockery.
>     """If we have to ban "Ugly" for american sensitivities, then
> perhaps we need to ban a number of others for china's sensitivities.
> Where will it end ?"""
>
> There are people making serious arguments against the idea, including
> the people above. But those arguments could have been made without the
> above examples. The above quotes don't treat the OP or the OP's ideas
> as worthy of a serious and mature response.
>
>
> P.S.: I read Poe's Law not as a warning against falling for trolls,
> but as a warning about confirmation bias. If I keep falling for poes
> of group G, it's probably because I'm too far too willing to believe
> negative things about G, and don't care to understand them.


It may be most relevant to interpret the poem as it is: culled from various
writings of the community.

What do we need to remember? Our criticism can hurt fragile feelings and
egos; which we need to check at the door.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensation (time spent disambiguating)

Python is primarily an online community; where words are our appearance.

"Most reasonable people would understand that" we're *clearly* talking
about engineering design aesthetic.

Not body dysmorphia.
Objectively,
Compared to C,
Python is fat and slow.
It's not fast, but it's pretty,
and that's all it has going for it,
In this crazy world.


Mean losers,
T-shirts.



Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/attachments/20180916/f5fa3622/attachment.html>