[Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

Barry A. Warsaw barry at python.org
Fri Feb 7 07:58:08 CET 2003

>>>>> "TM" == Tom Maddox <tmaddox at thereinc.com> writes:

    >> I think there is some confusion here about what is meant by
    >> VERP'ed address.

    TM> Evidently, you are correct. :-/

    TM> So, that's not my problem, then, but my problem remains
    TM> unresolved.  In a nutshell, here's what I'm observing:

    TM> Prior to my "upgrade" (oh, bitter irony!) to Mailman 2.1, mail
    TM> sent via a list had the following characteristics:

    | From: User Name [user at domain.com]
    | To: <listname at domain.com>
    | Reply-To:  <list|user> depending on list setting

    TM> Now, the mail looks like:

    TM> From: listname-bounces at domain.com on behalf of User Name
    TM> [user at domain.com] To: <listname at domain.com> Reply-To: <null>

(Sorry for the crappy citation)

Tom, take a look at this message's heades.  Do they have the same
problem for you?  Note that we have personalization turned on for

Here's what the relevant headers of you rmessage look like in my mail

    From: "Tom Maddox" <tmaddox at thereinc.com>
    Sender: mailman-users-bounces+barry=python.org at python.org
    To: <mailman-users at python.org>

There is no Reply-To header.  Note that Sender reflects the verp'd
envelope recipient, but Outlook probably should not be displaying that
to you.  Sender is of little use to most end-users.

    TM> Additionally, sometimes Outlook will insert the "short
    TM> description" of the list into the To: field when replying, but
    TM> I'm willing to believe that's a bug in Outlook.

Me too!  In fact I'm willing to believe that most of your display
problems are bugs in Outlook.  I know for a fact that...

    TM> My users don't like the new From: format, and I am trying to
    TM> get it back to the way it was, which seems like such a small
    TM> and simple thing to do but evidently is not.  Also, getting
    TM> rid of the text attachments in Outlook when the footer has a
    TM> different character set than the message body (also due to a
    TM> new "feature" introduced in 2.1) would be delightful.

...this is an Outlook problem.  I tested this with my colleague Tim
Peters, Window user extraordinare and even with Content-Disposition:
inline clues, Outlook[*] still insists on displaying them as
attachments.  Standards are for other people, I guess.

Next time I see him, I'll try to convince Tim to subscribe to a
personalized list and look over his shoulder while he views the


[*] Or was that OE.  Jeez, why have two completely different products
named so similarly?  Oh yeah, because that's what customers demanded

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