Mailman 3 October 2018 - python-committers

GitHub: remove the "needs backport to 3.5" label?
by Victor Stinner 20 Aug '19

20 Aug '19

Hi, Python 3.5 entered security fix only mode. Should we now remove the "needs backport to 3.5" label? Other security only branches don't have this label neither (3.3 and 3.4). Victor

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Licences for PyCharm and other JetBrains products
by Vinay Sajip 17 Dec '18

17 Dec '18

Recently I received 20 one-year licenses from JetBrains for the PyCharm IDE (Professional) and other JetBrains products (the licenses cover their "All Products Pack") for use in Python development. There are 11 licenses available - of the licenses I asked for last year, nine people took them up, so those are in use and come out of the allocation of 20. Those of you who took up the licences last time should find that the tools continue to work normally. The licences expire on 27 November 2018. If any others of you are interested in using these licenses, let me know off-list and I will forward the license access details to you. To access the licenses, you will need to have (or create) a JetBrains account. Regards, Vinay Sajip

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PEP 8015: Organization of the Python community
by Victor Stinner 15 Nov '18

15 Nov '18

Hi, I just finished to write the PEP 8015: "Organization of the Python community". I had limited time to write it, so sorry if some parts still look "raw". Full content below. HTML version: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8015/ Right now, the HTML page still returns me a 404 error. In the meanwhile, you can read it at: https://github.com/python/peps/blob/master/pep-8015.rst Summary with few quotes: """ This PEP formalizes the current organization of the Python community and proposes 3 main changes: * Formalize the existing concept of "Python teams"; * Give more autonomy to Python teams; * Replace the BDFL (Guido van Rossum) with a new "Python board" of 3 members which has limited roles, mostly decide how a PEP is approved (or rejected or deferred). """ "This PEP describes the organization of the whole Python community, from Python users to the Python board. Describing all groups and all roles in the same document helps to make the organization more consistent." "The number of changes is mininized to get a smooth transition from the old to the new organization." Thanks to all friends who helped me to late reviews ;-) Victor PEP: 8015 Title: Organization of the Python community Author: Victor Stinner Status: Active Type: Informational Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 2018-10-04 Abstract ======== This PEP formalizes the current organization of the Python community and proposes 3 main changes: * Formalize the existing concept of "Python teams"; * Give more autonomy to Python teams; * Replace the BDFL (Guido van Rossum) with a new "Python board" of 3 members which has limited roles, mostly decide how a PEP is approved (or rejected or deferred). Note: the "BDFL-delegate" role is renamed to "PEP delegate". Rationale ========= This PEP describes the organization of the whole Python community, from Python users to the Python board. Describing all groups and all roles in the same document helps to make the organization more consistent. The number of changes is mininized to get a smooth transition from the old to the new organization. One key design of the organization is to avoid decision bottlenecks. Discussions and decisions are distributed into Python teams where experts in each topic can be found. The expectation is smoother discussions on PEPs: fewer people with better knowledge of the topic. Previously, almost all decisions have been taken by the Benevolent Dictator For Life (BDFL). The growing popularity of Python increased the pressure on a single person. The proposed organization distributes decisions and responsibilities to reduce the pressure and avoid wearing them down. To keep most of the decision power within the hands of the community, the Python board has very limited roles. The idea is to reduce the risk that a group of people or companies "takes over" the Python project through just a couple individuals. The project must remain autonomous and open to everybody. The most sensitives PEPs are decided by democracy: in that case, a PEP is only approved if the majority of core developer vote "+1" (see the `PEP process`_ section below for the vote details). Common Guidelines ================= * The Python community is open to everyone. * Members must respect the `Python Community Code of Conduct <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/>`_ which ensures that discussions remain constructive and that everybody feels welcomed. * Python is and will remain an autonomous project. It cannot be owned by a company. * People with decisions power should reflect the diversity of its users and contributors. Community Organization ====================== Right now, there are different group of people involved in the Python project. The more involved you are, the most decisions power you get. It is important that the people acceding to the deepest group are the most trusted ones. This PEP formalizes the following groups: * Python Users * Python Contributors * Python Teams Members * Python Core Developers * Python Board Members * PSF Code of Conduct Workgroup Python Users ============ This is the largest group: anyone who uses Python. Python Contributors =================== Once a Python user sends an email to a Python mailing list, comments the Python bug tracker, proposes or reviews a Python change, they becomes a Python contributor. Python Teams ============ Python became too big to work as an unique team anymore, people naturally have grouped themself as teams to work more closely on specific topics, sometimes called "Special Interest Group" (SIG). Team members are Python contributors and Python core developers. The team is responsible to select who can join the team and how. Team members can get the bug triage permission on the team bug tracker component. Working in a team is a nice way to learn more to maybe later become a core developer. A team might become allowed to decide on their own PEPs, but only the board can allow that (and the board has the power to revoke it as well). Such case is exceptional, currently a single team has such permission: the Packaging team. See `Annex: Examples of Python Teams`_. Python Core Developers ====================== One restricted definition of a core developer is the ability to merge a change (anywhere in the code) and have the bug triage permission (on all bug tracker components). Core developers are developers who proved to have the required skills to decide if a change can be approved or must be rejected. Python has a long history, big constraints on backward compatibility, high quality standards (ex: changes require new tests). For these reasons, becoming a core can take several months. Becoming a core developer means more responbilities. For example, if a developer approves a change, they become indirectly responsible for regressions and for the maintenance of that modified code. Core developers are also expected to be exemplary when it comes to the Code of Conduct. They are encouraged to mentor contributors. Promote a contributor as core developer --------------------------------------- Once an existing core developer considers that a contributor is ready to join the core group, to become a core developer, that core developer asks the contributor if they would like to become a core developer. If the contributor is interested in such new responsibilities, a vote is organized. The vote is public and organized on the python-committers mailing list for 1 month. Usually the core developer who proposes the promotion has to describe the work and skills of the candidate in the email opening the vote. A contributor is only promoted if the number of +1 exceed the number of -1. Other votes (null, +0 and -0) are ignored. If the candidate is promoted, usually they get a mentor for 1 month to help them to handle new responsibilities. If the candidate is not promoted, a new vote can be organized later, when the candidate gets the missing skills, for example 6 months later. Python Board ============ The Python board is made of the most trusted developers since it has the most decisions power. The roles of this group are strictly limited to ensure that Python keeps its autonomy and remains open. Board members are elected for 3 years, a third of it is refreshed every year. This way, a member will stay for one full Python release but the board composition will be updated frequently. Election of board members ------------------------- The Python board is composed of 3 people. They are elected for three years, and each year a member is replaced. A board member can be candidate for the seat they is leaving. Candidates have 2 weeks to apply, and a vote is open for 1 month. The vote uses the `Condorcet method <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method>`_. Votes are private during the vote, but become public when the vote completes. Board members must be Python core developers. It is important that the members of the board reflect the diversity of Python' users and contributors. A small step to ensure that is to enforce that two members cannot work for the same company (or subsidiaries of the same company). In addition, to encourage more people to get involved, a core developer can only be a board member twice (up to 6 years total). To bootstrap the process, 3 members will be elected at the board creation. The first members will stay for 1, 2 or 3 years (3 years for the candidate with most votes, 1 year for the candidate with least votes). If a board member steps down, a new vote is organized to replaced them. If the situation of a board member changes in a way that no longer satify the board constraint (eg: they move to the same company as another board members), they have to resign. Board roles ----------- Board roles: * Decide how a PEP is approved (or rejected or deferred). * Grant or revoke permissions to a Python team. For example, allow a team to give the bug triage permission (on the team component) to a contributor. To decide how a PEP is approved (or rejected or deferred), there are two options: * The board elects a PEP delegate (previously known as "BDFL-delegate"): a core developer who will take the final decision for the specific PEP. The Python team of the PEP or the board select the PEP delegate. * If the board decides that the PEP is too risky (like language changes), a vote is organized (see `PEP process`_ for details on the vote). The board decides when the vote is opened. The board keeps the "vision" and consistency of Python. It also makes sure that important features reach completion. Their ability to pick PEP delegates is meant to help them to achieve that goal. Special Case: Board Members And PEPs ------------------------------------ A board member cannot be a PEP delegate. A board member can offer a PEP, but cannot decide how their own PEP is approved. PEP process =========== There are 2 main roles on PEPs: * PEP Authors * PEP Delegate PEP Authors do their best to write high quality PEP. The PEP delegate is responsible to help the authors to enhance their PEP and is the one taking the final decision (accept, reject or defer the PEP). They can also help to guide the discussion. If no decision is taken, the authors can propose again the PEP later (ex: one year later), if possible with new data to motive the change. A PEP Delegate can also choose to mark a PEP as "Deferred" to not reject the PEP and encourage to reopen the discussion later. PEPs specific to a Python team are discussed on the team mailing list. PEPs impacting all Python developers (like language changes) must be discussed on the python-dev mailing list. Vote on a PEP ------------- When the board decides that a PEP needs a wider approval, a vote will be open for 1 month to all core developers. Such vote will happen on the mailing list where the PEP has been discussed. The PEP must have been discussed for a reasonable amount of time before it is put to vote. A PEP is only approved if the number of +1 exceed the number of -1. Other votes (null, +0 and -0) are ignored. Lack of decision ================ If a discussion fails to reach a consensus, if the board fail to choose a PEP delegate for a PEP, if a PEP delegate fails to take a decision, the obvious risk is that Python fails to evolve. That's fine. Sometimes, doing nothing is the wisest choice. PSF Code of Conduct Workgroup ============================= The workgroup's purpose is to foster a diverse and inclusive Python community by enforcing the PSF code of conduct, along with providing guidance and recommendations to the Python community on codes of conduct, that supports the PSF mission of “ongoing development of Python-related technology and educational resources”. We work toward this common goal in three ways: * Review, revise, and advise on policies relating to the PSF code of conducts and other communities that the PSF supports. This includes any #python chat community & python.org email list under PSF jurisdiction. * Create a standard set of codes of conduct and supporting documents for multiple channels of interaction such as, but not limited to, conferences, mailing lists, slack/IRC, code repositories, and more. * Develop training materials and other processes to support Python community organizers in implementing and enforcing the code of conduct. The organization of this workgroup is defined by the `ConductWG Charter <https://wiki.python.org/psf/ConductWG/Charter>`_. Annex: Examples of Python Teams =============================== Below are examples of some Python teams (the list will not be kept up to date in this PEP). Packaging team -------------- The packaging team runs its own PEP category and can approve (or reject) their own PEPs. * Website: `packaging.python.org <https://packaging.python.org/>`_ * Mailing list: `distutils-sig <https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/>`_ * Bug tracker component: ``Distutils`` * Example of members: Paul Moore, Nick Coghlan, Donald Stuff * Stdlib module: ``distutils`` * Current PEP delegate: Paul Moore IDLE team --------- IDLE is a special case in the Python standard library: it's a whole application, not just a module. For this reason, it has been decided that the code will be the same in all Python stable branches (whereas the stdlib diverges in newer stable branches). * Bug tracker component: ``IDLE`` * Example of members: Terry Reedy, Cheryl Sabella, Serhiy Storchaka * Stdlib module: ``idlelib`` Mentorship team --------------- Becoming a core developer is long and slow process. Mentorship an an efficient way to train contributors as future core developers and build a trust relationship. * Websites: * https://www.python.org/dev/core-mentorship/ * https://devguide.python.org/ * Repository: https://github.com/python/devguide * Mailing list: `core-mentorship <https://www.python.org/dev/core-mentorship/>`_ (private archives) * Example of members: Guido van Rossum, Carol Willing, Victor Stinner Note: The group is not responsible to promote core developers. Documentation team ------------------ * Mailing list: `doc-sig <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/doc-sig>`_ * Bug tracker component: ``Documentation`` * GitHub tag: ``type-doc`` The team also manages documentation translations. See also the Mentorship team which maintains the "Devguide". Security team ------------- * Website: https://www.python.org/news/security/ * Mailing lists: * ``security(a)python.org`` (to report vulnerabilities) * `security-sig <https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/security-sig.python.org/>`_ (public list) * Stdlib modules: ``hashlib``, ``secrets`` and ``ssl`` * Example of members: Christian Heimes, Benjamin Peterson The ``security(a)python.org`` mailing list is invite-only: only members of the "Python Security Response Team" (PSRT) can read emails and reply; whereas security-sig is public. Note: This team rarely proposed PEPs. Performance team ---------------- * Website: https://speed.python.org/ * Mailing list: `speed <https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/speed.python.org/>`_ * Repositories: * https://github.com/python/performance * https://github.com/tobami/codespeed * Bug tracker type: ``Performance`` * GitHub label: ``type-performance`` * Stdlib module: ``cProfile``, ``profile``, ``pstats`` and ``timeit`` * Example of members: Victor Stinner, INADA Naoki, Serhiy Storchaka Usually PEPs involving performance impact everybody and so are discussed on the python-dev mailing list, rather than the speed mailing list. Asynchronous programming team ----------------------------- * Website: https://docs.python.org/dev/library/asyncio.html * Mailing list: `async-sig <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/async-sig>`_ * Bug tracker component: ``asyncio`` * GitHub label: ``expert-asyncio`` * Stdlib modules: ``asyncio`` and ``contextvars`` * Example of members: Andrew Sveltov, Yury Selivanov PEP only modifying ``asyncio`` and ``contextvars`` can be discussed on the async-sig mailing list, whereas changes impacting the Python language must be discussed on python-dev.

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If you care about the voting method, please vote ; -)
by Tim Peters 05 Nov '18

05 Nov '18

There's a poll about the voting method to use to decide on the winning governance PEP. We'd like to see more people weigh in: https://discuss.python.org/t/python-governance-electoral-system/290/26 PEP 8001 specifies that IRV will be used. There's pushback against that. Since a poll is a form of approval voting, there's also pushback against using a poll to vote on the voting method. But we really don't have the time to pursue infinite regress to its end ;-) I'm not in charge of anything, so take this for what it's worth: pick the option(s) that are closest to what you can live with, but add a comment to the poll if there's some aspect of what you vote for that you really can't abide (e.g., at least one person said they would vote for Approval, _except_ that they object to getting the PSF Board involved in case there's a tie). The high-order bit of this poll is about the basic approaches people can live with, not details of how problem cases are handled.

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Julien Palard joins the Python Release Team as Documentation Expert
by Ned Deily 30 Oct '18

30 Oct '18

https://discuss.python.org/t/julien-palard-joins-the-python-release-team-as… -- Ned Deily nad(a)python.org -- []

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Josh Rosenburg (josh.r) now has triage rights
by Brett Cannon 28 Oct '18

28 Oct '18

On Serhiy's recommendation I just gave Josh triage rights on bugs.python.org .

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Vote on governance will happen between Nov 16 - Nov 30
by Łukasz Langa 25 Oct '18

25 Oct '18

The voting procedure is described in PEP 8001. I flipped it from "Draft" to "Active" without further changes a few minutes ago. That's in the interest of giving everybody enough lead time as well as resolving the situation "well before PyCon 2019" as per Guido's and Carol's requests. Please read all the governance PEPs, ask for clarifications, voice all your concerns now. Ideally we will make all of the required changes to the PEPs early and not last minute before the vote. There were some suggestions on Discourse for changes to the selected model, the biggest being Stefan's suggestion to encrypt the votes and Donald's suggestion to use STAR instead of IRV for counting votes. We ended up not going with those suggestions. See Brett's comment here as to why: https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-8001-python-governance-voting-process/233/… <https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-8001-python-governance-voting-process/233/…> - Ł

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[RELEASE] Python 3.7.1 and 3.6.7 are now available
by Ned Deily 20 Oct '18

20 Oct '18

On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.7 release team, we are pleased to announce the availability of Python 3.7.1. Python 3.7.1 is the first maintenance release of the newest feature release of the Python language. You can find Python 3.7.1 here: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-371/ See the What’s New In Python 3.7 document for more information about the many new features and optimizations included in the 3.7 series. Detailed information about the changes made in 3.7.1 can be found in its change log: https://docs.python.org/3.7/whatsnew/3.7.html https://docs.python.org/3.7/whatsnew/changelog.html#python-3-7-1-final We are also happy to announce the availability of Python 3.6.7, the next maintenance release of Python 3.6: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-367/ Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python Software Foundation. -- Ned Deily nad(a)python.org -- []

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discuss.python.org participation
by Jack Diederich 20 Oct '18

20 Oct '18

I'm worried about the new format combined with governance discussions. As best I can tell 51 CPython committers have signed up for an account [I think that is a big number, btw] but only 17 have posted anything; That 17 is about 5 more people than put their name on a governance PEP. And maybe 5 people have half the total posts. This does not feel like a discussion at all. I don't think it was deliberate, but it looks like the new format is actively discouraging everyone but those most deeply invested with the most free time from participating. -Jack

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GitHub logins now supported on discuss.python.org
by Brett Cannon 19 Oct '18

19 Oct '18

In case anyone was waiting for that before trying out our Discourse instance.

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