I'm choosing to forward this to python-committers because I don't think
python-ideas is a reasonable place to discuss CoC decisions.
I think the action taken by Brett (apparently decided with Titus and a
mysterious "conduct working group") is not the right one:
- a definitive ban is an extremely strong decision that should only be
taken if nothing else works. May I remind that Anatoly was able to post
prolifically and unconstructively for several years, being warned
several times, before being finally banned? Comparatively, this one ban
- the reasons given, to me, don't make sense at all. The word "n-----"
is not a forbidden word if you want to describe, precisely, linguistics
and the relativity of meanings (instead of actually *qualifying* someone
or a groupe of people), which is what the OP claimed to do. The other
reasons look like a similar kind of over-reaction. Even if something
there looks inappropriate to you, it's still enough of a grey area that
a ban is absolutely the wrong answer.
I deduce that it's ok to say "slave" in a discussion instead of using an
expression such as "the s-word". Why one term is allowed and the other,
not, may be clear to Americans (or, perhaps, a large fraction thereof),
but hey, it's not clear to other people around the world. Banning a
(apparently) Dutch person because he doesn't understand American
standards of offense is not only unfair, but it makes our community
*not* inclusive of other cultures.
As a French person myself, I could not, even if I wanted to, turn myself
into an authentic American: what is obvious to you is not obvious to me
and it would be extremely brutal and humiliating to ban me for having
the wrong nationality and the wrong culture. I will ask: please
consider the work and effort that it *already* takes for other people to
adapt to standards of discussion that are, obviously, those of a
particular culture. Otherwise you're raising barriers even more, not
At the end of it, it looks like we have a real moderation problem.
python-ideas threads frequently veer out into unconstructive
back-and-forths (and, well, that's not *only* the ethically-sensitive
threads). The CoC is being applied erratically, sometimes
precipitately, by apparently overworked and emotionally exhausted
moderators, with bad consequences on the quality of the decisions.
Moderators should not become emotionally exhausted (which means we need
a more adequate discussion system *and* a more collegial, spread out,
team of moderators); and, if they become so, I would humbly suggest it's
a better idea - even if not always easy to follow - to step back and
take some rest than make decisions in such a state. We also need real
guidelines to the moderators as to which decision on the scale of
possible decisions to apply, depending on severity of the offense /
violation and on the "offendor"'s past behaviour.
In the end, I hope we can set ourselves better moderation standards. As
for me, I find the current situation very worrying, including for my
ability to contribute constructively to Python. If I have to fear
banning for every word that I say and that might be deemed inappropriate
in the moderators' culture, I might just as well leave instead of
feeling stressed and anguished everytime I post something. I would not
want to live this in paid work: why would I endure it as a volunteer,
while my main gratification should be the pleasure taken in contributing?
----- Message Transféré -----
Date : Thu, 20 Sep 2018 11:56:05 -0700
De : Brett Cannon <brett-+ZN9ApsXKcEdnm+yROfE0A(a)public.gmane.org>
À : Jacco van Dorp <j.van.dorp-i74+SDIRvn1mR6Xm/wNWPw(a)public.gmane.org>
Cc : python-ideas <python-ideas-+ZN9ApsXKcEdnm+yROfE0A(a)public.gmane.org>
Groupe de discussion : gmane.comp.python.ideas
Sujet : CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better
than ugly" Zen clause)
The below email was reported to the PSF board for code of conduct
violations and then passed on to the conduct working group to decide on
an appropriate response.
Based on the WG's recommendation and after discussing it with Titus, the
decision has been made to ban Jacco from python-ideas. Trivializing
assault, using the n-word, and making inappropriate comments about
someone's mental stability are all uncalled for and entirely
unnecessary to carry on a reasonable discourse of conversation that
remains welcoming to others.