Mailman 3 December 2005 - pypy-dev

Re: [pypy-dev] OCSCON 2006 in Portland again, paper deadline Feb 13
by Laura Creighton 06 Jan '06

06 Jan '06

In a message of Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:16:09 +0100, Beatrice During writes: >Hi there > >We have such a calendar on codespeak - Michael have informed about it on >pypy-funding. You can find it: > >http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/contact.html > >or directly at: > >http://pypycal.sabi.net/. What program is this? how to add a new entry ... ie OSCON ... is not obvious for this bear of very little brain. What doc need I read? I still think a nice link on codespeak would make sense rather than having to store a bookmark, which will only work on a machine where you have stored things ... Laura

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RE: [pypy-dev] Thread/gil/java question
by Drumheller, Michael 01 Jan '06

01 Jan '06

Thank you for the quick response. Let me get this straight: If I use Jython instead of CPython, then my Python threads can migrate to different CPUs? Not sure what you meant by "... granularity is such that not much could be assumed for user programs..."--could you clarify that a bit? Thank you again. Mike D. -----Original Message----- From: Samuele Pedroni [mailto:pedronis@strakt.com] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:40 AM To: Drumheller, Michael Cc: pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] Thread/gil/java question Drumheller, Michael wrote: > I am familiar with the GIL limitation on Python concurrency, e.g., > <<http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/low-level-encapsulation.html > #c > oncurrency>> > > Does anyone know whether Java has a similar limitation? (Yes: I have > no experience with Java at all.) > notice that the GIL is an implementation detail of CPython, not part of Python semantics. Java implementations don't have global locks (usually) in CPython GIL sense, also Java builtin datatypes and bytecode granularity is such that not much could be assumed for user programs even in the presence of such a lock. Whether the Java specification would forbid such a lock is a different matter. Jython also doesn't have a GIL. It is still true that because of the GIL in CPython that Python multithreading programs usually make assumptions about some operations on/involving only builtin types and no callbacks to user code to be atomic. Jython uses locks but no single global lock to try to respect these de-facto semantics.

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RE: [pypy-dev] Thread/gil/java question
by Drumheller, Michael 30 Dec '05

30 Dec '05

Thank you. I apologize for misusing the list. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Christian Tismer [mailto:tismer@stackless.com] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:48 PM To: Drumheller, Michael Cc: Samuele Pedroni; pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] Thread/gil/java question Michael, you already got a very good answer, since you happened to hit the former maintainer of Jython. > Thank you for the quick response. Let me get this straight: If I use > Jython instead of CPython, then my Python threads can migrate to > different CPUs? > Not sure what you meant by "... granularity is such that not much > could be assumed for user programs..."--could you clarify that a bit? You already admitted that you have no idea about Java. This list is for developing PyPy. Questions beyond this are of course possible, but I think we have one thing in common: Everybody in this list knows to use the literature, and expects everybody else to do the same. Submissions to the list are meant to create new knowldge or to leverage it. Education is not the primary goal, but supporting PyPy development. If I was in the position to do that, I'd ask you to ask your question to yourself, investigate about it and share the gathered knowledge with us, or check it against other opinions. That would be helpful input to the PyPy project. It is ok to ask after you got stuck with some effort tried. Thanks for your support - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> tismerysoft GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 30 80 90 57 05 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

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OCSCON 2006 in Portland again, paper deadline Feb 13
by Laura Creighton 29 Dec '05

29 Dec '05

Maybe we should target a talk, not to the Python crowd, but to the 'not specific to any language' track? Or do we all plan to be in Japan that week (July 24-28)? I am thinking that we need a calendar on codespeak to track where things are happening and what (if anything) we want to do .... Laura ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: python-announce-list-bounces(a)python.org Delivery-Date: Thu Dec 29 15:37:45 2005 From: "Kevin Altis" <altis(a)semi-retired.com> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python.announce Subject: ANN: OSCON 2006 Call for Proposals OSCON 2006: Opening Innovation http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2006/ Save the date for the 8th annual O'Reilly Open Source Convention, happening July 24-28, 2006 at the Oregon Convention Center in beautiful Portland, Oregon. Call For Participation - ---------------------- Submit a proposal-fill out the form at: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2006/create/e_sess/ Important Dates: * Proposals Due: Midnight (PST) February 13, 2006 * Speaker Notification: March 27, 2006 * Tutorial Presentation Files Due: June 12, 2006 * Session Presentation Files Due: June 26, 2006 * Conference: July 24-28, 2006 Proposals - --------- We are considering proposals for 45 minute sessions and 3 hour tutorials. We rarely accept 90 minute proposals, as most general sessions are 45 minutes in length. Your proposals are examined by a committee which draws from them and which also solicits proposals to build the program. Proposals are due by midnight (PST), Feb. 13, 2006. The OSCON Speaker Manager, Vee McMillen, emails notification of the status of your talk (accepted or otherwise) by March 27, 2006. Unless the content of your talk is particularly timely (e.g., features of a product that will be launched at OSCON), you are required to send us your slides several weeks before the conference begins. Submit proposals via the form below. Some tips for writing a good proposal for a good talk: * Keep it free of marketing: talk about open source software, but not about a commercial product--the audience should be able to use and improve the things you talk about without paying money * Keep the audience in mind: they're technical, professional, and already pretty smart. * Clearly identify the level of the talk: is it for beginners to the topic, or for gurus? What knowledge should people have when they come to the talk? * Give it a simple and straightforward title: fancy and clever titles make it harder for people (committee and attendees) to figure out what you're really talking about * Limit the scope of the talk: in 45 minutes, you won't be able to cover Everything about Widget Framework X. Instead, pick a useful aspect, or a particular technique, or walk through a simple program. * Pages of code are unreadable: mere mortals can deal with code a line at a time. Sometimes three lines at a time. A page of code can't be read when it's projected, and can't be comprehended by the audience. * Explain why people will want to attend: is the framework gaining traction? Is the app critical to modern systems? Will they learn how to deploy it, program it, or just what it is? * Let us know in your proposal notes whether you can give all the talks you submitted proposals for * Explain what you will cover in the talk NOTE: All presenters whose talks are accepted (excluding Lightning Talks) will receive free registration at the conference. For each half-day tutorial, the presenter receives one night's accommodation, a limited travel allowance, and an honorarium. We give tutors and speakers registration to the convention (including tutorials), and tutors are eligible for a travel allowance: up to US$300 from the west coast of the USA, up to US$500 from the east coast of the USA, up to US$800 from outside the USA. Registration opens April, 2006. If you would like to be notified by email when registration opens, please use the form on our main page. CONFERENCE INFO =============== The O'Reilly Open Source Convention is where coders, sysadmins, entrepreneurs, and business people working in free and open source software gather to share ideas, discover code, and find solutions. At OSCON 2005, more than 2,400 attendees took part in 241 sessions and tutorials across eleven technology tracks, learning about the newest features and versions from creators and experts. A record number of products launches and announcements were made, and sponsors and exhibitors from a wide range of companies filled the largest exhibit hall in OSCON's history. We anticipate that OSCON 2006 will be even more successful, and continue to be the place for the open source community to meet up, debate, make deals, and connect face to face. OSCON 2006 will take place at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon July 24-28, 2006. OSCON 2006 will feature the projects, technologies, and skills that you need to write and deploy killer modern apps. We're looking for proposals on platforms and applications around: * Multimedia including voice (VoIP) and video * AI including spam-busting, classification, clustering, and data mining * Collaboration including email, calendars, RSS, OPML, mashups, IM, presence, and session initialization * Project best practices including governance, starting a project, and managing communities * Microsoft Windows-based open source projects including .NET, Mono, and regular C/C++/Visual Basic Windows apps * Enterprise Java techniques including integration, testing, and scalable deployment solutions * Linux kernel skills for sysadmins including virtualization, tuning, and device drivers * Device hacking including iPods, Nintendo, PSP, XBox 360, and beyond * Design including CSS, GUI, and user experience (XP) * Entrepreneurial topics including management for techies, how to go into business for yourself, and business models that work * Security including hardening, hacking, root kits (Sony and otherwise), and intrusion detection/cleanup * Fun subjects with no immediate commercial application including retro computing, games, and BitTorrent Tracks at OSCON will include: * Desktop Apps * Databases, including MySQL, PostgreSQL, Ingres, and others * Emerging Topics * Java * Linux Kernel for SysAdmins * Linux for Programmers * Perl, celebrating the 10th year of The Perl Conference! * PHP * Programming, including everything that's not specific to a particular language * Python * Security * Ruby, including Ruby on Rails * Web Apps, including Apache * Windows - -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Thread/gil/java question
by Drumheller, Michael 29 Dec '05

29 Dec '05

I am familiar with the GIL limitation on Python concurrency, e.g., <<http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/low-level-encapsulation.html#c oncurrency>> Does anyone know whether Java has a similar limitation? (Yes: I have no experience with Java at all.) Thanks, MD

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This Week in PyPy is on holiday
by Michael Hudson 23 Dec '05

23 Dec '05

Last week we wrote reports. Next week is Christmas and I fully expect not much to happen. I'll try to write one on the 6th, but as I'll have got back from holiday the day before, I'll need some help :) Cheers, mwh -- I located the link but haven't bothered to re-read the article, preferring to post nonsense to usenet before checking my facts. -- Ben Wolfson, comp.lang.python

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Mallorca sprint announcement
by Beatrice During 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

Hi there The PyPy team is happy to invite you to the first PyPy sprint of 2006: Palma de Mallorca PyPy Sprint: 23rd - 29th January 2006 ============================================================ The next PyPy sprint is scheduled to take place January 2006 in Palma De Mallorca, Balearic Isles, Spain. We'll give newcomer-friendly introductions and the focus will mainly be on current JIT work, garbage collection, alternative threading models, logic programming and on improving the interface with external functions. To learn more about the new Python-in-Python implementation look here: http://codespeak.net/pypy Goals and topics of the sprint ------------------------------ In Gothenburg we have made some first forays into the interesting topics of Just-in-Time compilation. In Mallorca we will continue that and have the following ideas: - Further work/experimentation toward Just-In-Time Compiler generation, which was initiated with the Abstract Interpreter started in Gothenburg. - Integrating our garbage collection toolkit with the backends and the code generation. - Heading into the direction of adding logic programming to PyPy. - Optimization work: our threading implementation is still incredibly slow, we need to work on that. Furthermore there are still quite some slow places in the interpreter that could be improved. - getting the socket module to a more complete state (it is already improved but still far from complete) - generally improving the way we interface with external functions. - whatever participants want to do with PyPy (please send suggestions to the mailing list before to allow us to plan and give feedback) Location & Accomodation ------------------------ The sprint will be held at the Palma University (UIB - Universitat de les Illes Balears), in their GNU/Linux lab (http://mnm.uib.es/phpwiki/AulaLinux). We are hosted by the Computer Science department and Ricardo Galli is our contact person there, helping with arranging facilities. The University is located 7 km away from the central Palma. Busses to the University departs from "Plaza de España" (which is a very central location in Palma). Take bus 19 to the UIB campus. A ticket for one urban trip costs 1 euro. You can also buy a card that is valid for 10 trips and costs 7.51 euros. Information about bus timetables and routes can be found on: http://www.a-palma.es A map over the UIB campus are can be found on: http://www.uib.es/imagenes/planoCampus.html The actual address is: 3r pis de l'Anselm Turmeda which can be found on the UIB Campus map. At "Plaza de España" there is a hostel (Hostal Residencia Terminus) which has been recommended to us. It's cheap (ca 50 euros/double room with bathroom). Some more links to accomodations (flats, student homes and hotels): http://www.lodging-in-spain.com/hotel/town/Islas_Baleares,Mallorca,Palma_de… http://www.uib.es/fuguib/residencia/english/index.html http://www.homelidays.com/EN-Holidays-Rental/110_Search/SearchList.asp?DEST… LOCALISATION=ES%20ISLASBALEARES%20MALLORCA If you want to find a given street, you can search here: http://www.callejeando.com/Pueblos/pueblo7_1.htm To get to Palma De Mallorca almost all low fare airlines and travel agencies have cheap tickets to get there. Information about Mallorca and Palma (maps, tourist information, local transports, recommended air lines, ferries and much more) can be found on: http://www.palmademallorca.es/portalPalma/home.jsp Comments on the weather: In January it is cold and wet on Mallorca Average temperature: 8,4 degrees Celsius Lowest temperature: 2 degrees Celsius Highest temperature: 14,5 degrees Celsius Average humidity rate: 77,6 % So more time for coding and less time for sunbathing and beaches ;-) Exact times ----------- The public PyPy sprint is held Monday 23rd - Sunday 29th January 2006. Hours will be from 10:00 until people have had enough. It's a good idea to arrive a day before the sprint starts and leave a day later. In the middle of the sprint there usually is a break day and it's usually ok to take half-days off if you feel like it. For this particular break day, Thursday, we are invited to the studio of Ginés Quiñonero, a local artist and painter. Ginés have also been the person helping us getting connections to UIB and providing much appreciated help regarding accommodation and other logistical information. For those of you interested - here is his website where there also are paintings showing his studio: http://www.hermetex4.com/damnans/ For those interested in playing collectable card games, this will also be an opportunity to get aquainted with V:TES which will be demoed by Ginés and Beatrice and Sten Düring. For more information on this cardgame - see: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php. (The Mallorca sprint was organized through contacts within the V:TES community). Network, Food, currency ------------------------ Currency is Euro. Food is available in the UIB Campus area as well as cheap restaurants in Palma. You normally need a wireless network card to access the network, but we can provide a wireless/ethernet bridge. 230V AC plugs are used in Mallorca. Registration etc.pp. -------------------- Please subscribe to the `PyPy sprint mailing list`_, introduce yourself and post a note that you want to come. Feel free to ask any questions there! There also is a separate `Mallorca people`_ page tracking who is already thought to come. If you have commit rights on codespeak then you can modify yourself a checkout of http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/mallorca-2006/people.txt .. _`PyPy sprint mailing list`: http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-sprint .. _`Mallorca people`: http://codespeak.net/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/mallorca-2006/people.html

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What happened...this week in PyPy?
by Michael Spencer 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

Inquiring minds want to know ;-) Michael

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This Week in PyPy 7
by Michael Hudson 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

Better late than never, eh? Introduction ============ This is the seventh summary of what's been going on in the world of PyPy in the last week. I'd still like to remind people that when something worth summarizing happens to recommend if for "This Week in PyPy" as mentioned on: http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/weekly/ where you can also find old summaries. There were about 110 commits to the pypy section of codespeak's repository in the last week. The Sprint! =========== The last weekly summary was written towards the end of the sprint. The things we did in the couple of remaining days were written up in the second sprint report: http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2005q4/002660.html Apart from continuing our work from the first half of the sprint, the main new work was implementing __del__ support in the translated PyPy. IRC Summary =========== Thanks again to Pieter for this. **Monday** http://tismerysoft.de/pypy/irc-logs/pypy/%23pypy.log.20051212:: [00:26] Stakkars says that it is great that pypy does not punish you for indirection. He is of meaning that he writes better style in RPython than in Python, because the "it is slow" aspect is gone. **Tuesday** http://tismerysoft.de/pypy/irc-logs/pypy/%23pypy.log.20051213:: [21:01] Heatsink says that he is doing some dynamic optimizations in CPython. This turns into a discussion about the nature of pypy, and Arigo takes us on a tour of how pypy and the JIT will interact in the future. A good read of general pypy ideas. **Thursday** http://tismerysoft.de/pypy/irc-logs/pypy/%23pypy.log.20051215:: [10:24] Ericvrp discovers an optimization that makes pypy 6.8x slower than CPython on the richards test suite. All if-elses are converted to switches. Cfbolz replies that it is time to write a graph transformation to implement this optimization officially. PyPy's Bytecode Dispatcher ========================== Something that was suggested but never got-around-to at the last sprint was to modify the translation process so that the bytecode dispatch loop of the interpreter used a C switch rather than a table of function pointers. The bytecode implementation code in PyPy builds a list of functions that contain the implementation of the respective bytecode. Up until a few days ago, the dispatch function retrieved the correct function by using the bytecode as an index into this list. This was turned by the translator and the C backend into an array of function pointers. This has the drawback that the bytecode-implementing functions can never be inlined (even though some of them are quite small) and there always is a read from memory for every bytecode executed. During the Gothenburg sprint we discussed and a strategy to transform the dispatch code into something more efficient and in the last week Eric, Arre and Carl Friedrich implemented this strategy. Now the dispatching is done by a huge (automatically generated, of course) chain of if/elif/else that all test the value of the same variable. In addition there is a transformation that transforms chains of such if/elif/else blocks into a block that has an integer variable as an exitswitch and links with exitcases corresponding to the different values of the single integer variable. The C backend converts such a block into a switch. In addition this technique makes it possible for our inliner to inline some of the bytecode implementing functions work. Using the new dispatcher pypy-c got 10% or so faster (though the *first* time we ran it it was much much faster! Benchmarking is hard). Preparations for EU-review still ongoing =========================================== Many developers are still involved in preparations for the EU review on 20th January. Reports are being finalized and there are discussions about various issues that are only indirectly related to the development efforts (in so far as it provides the basis for the partial funding we receive). We probably will only know on the 20th if everything works out suitably. -- This makes it possible to pass complex object hierarchies to a C coder who thinks computer science has made no worthwhile advancements since the invention of the pointer. -- Gordon McMillan, 30 Jul 1998

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pypy-sync dec 22nd announcement
by Eric van Riet Paap 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

hello everyone, Tomorrows pypy-sync will probably be a short one since some people will already be enjoying their well earned holiday. Meeting topic so far: * activity reports * determine blockers (none probably because most developers will be not working next week (officially)) * anything that pops to mind * the usual bye's, this time with merry christmas-es. If there is anything you want to see covered during this meeting please post it to pypy-dev or to me. Time and place as always. I would be very surprised if you don't know where to find us by now. :) cheers Eric

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