Mailman 3 April 2006 - pypy-dev

missed the meeting
by Christian Tismer 30 Apr '06

30 Apr '06

Hi PyPyers, for some reason I was sure that we cancelled this week's sync meeting. This was absolutely unintentional, very sorry about that! cheers - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> tismerysoft GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 30 80 90 57 05 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

2 2

llinterp trace
by Armin Rigo 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

Hi all, As a quick hack I made llinterp produce traces of all operations it executes -- no longer to stdout or py.log, but to an html file written to /tmp/usession-*. It's a hierarchical-looking page showing the nested calls. With Javascript browsers we can hide and show sub-calls by clicking around; all calls are initially hidden. It's certainly a more useful presentation than the terminal-based one. Of course I'm open to further suggestions :-) A bientot, Armin.

1 0

Summer of Code mailing list
by Neal Norwitz 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

There's a new SoC mailing list. soc2006(a)python.org You can sign up here: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/soc2006 This list is for any SoC discussion: mentors, students, idea, etc. Student can submit applications starting May 1, so now is the time to get students interested in your ideas! Please pass this information along. Cheers, n

1 0

Error While Translating Interpreter
by Jiwon Seo 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hi, I'm getting error while translating pypy interpreter (in pypy-0.8.x version) on ppc machine. The machine is Macintosh G5, and OS is Fedora Core 4; and the error code looks like following: [translation:ERROR] Error: [translation:ERROR] Traceback (most recent call last): [translation:ERROR] File "./translate_pypy.py", line 278, in main [translation:ERROR] drv.proceed(goals) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/goal/drive [translation:ERROR] self._execute(goals, task_skip = self.maybe_skip) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/tool/taske [translation:ERROR] self._do(goal, taskcallable, *args, **kwds) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/goal/drive [translation:ERROR] func() [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/goal/drive [translation:ERROR] annotator = translator.annotate(self.inputtypes, policy= [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/translator [translation:ERROR] self.annotator.build_types(graph, input_args_types, func [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/annrpython [translation:ERROR] self.complete() [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/annrpython [translation:ERROR] self.processblock(fn, block) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/annrpython [translation:ERROR] self.flowin(fn, block) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/annrpython [translation:ERROR] self.consider_op(block.operations[i]) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/translator/annrpython [translation:ERROR] resultcell = consider_meth(*argcells) [translation:ERROR] File "<string>", line 3, in consider_op_getattr [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/unaryop.py [translation:ERROR] attrdef = ins.classdef.find_attribute(attr) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] return self.locate_attribute(attr).attrs[attr] [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] self.generalize_attr(attr) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] self._generalize_attr(attr, s_value) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] newattr.add_constant_source(source, classdef) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] s_value = self.bookkeeper.immutablevalue( [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/bookkeeper [translation:ERROR] clsdef.add_source_for_attribute(attr, x) # can trigger r [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p ribute [translation:ERROR] attrdef.add_constant_source(source, clsdef) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] s_value = self.bookkeeper.immutablevalue( [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/bookkeeper [translation:ERROR] result.dictdef.generalize_value(self.immutablevalue(ev)) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/bookkeeper [translation:ERROR] clsdef.add_source_for_attribute(attr, x) # can trigger r [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p ribute [translation:ERROR] attrdef.add_constant_source(source, clsdef) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/classdef.p [translation:ERROR] s_value = self.bookkeeper.immutablevalue( [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/bookkeeper [translation:ERROR] result.dictdef.generalize_value(self.immutablevalue(ev)) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/annotation/bookkeeper [translation:ERROR] frozen = hasattr(x, '_freeze_') and x._freeze_() [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/mixedmodu [translation:ERROR] self.getdict() [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/mixedmodu [translation:ERROR] w_value = self.get(name) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/mixedmodu [translation:ERROR] w_value = self.getdictvalue(space, name) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/mixedmodu [translation:ERROR] w_value = loader(space) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/mixedmodu [translation:ERROR] return app.wget(space, attrname) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/gateway.p [translation:ERROR] w_globals = self.getwdict(space) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/gateway.p [translation:ERROR] return space.fromcache(ApplevelCache).getorbuild(self) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/tool/cache.py", line [translation:ERROR] result = self._build(key) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/baseobjsp [translation:ERROR] return self.build(key) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/gateway.p [translation:ERROR] return PyPyCacheDir.build_applevelinterp_dict(app, self. [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/gateway.p rp_dict [translation:ERROR] w_glob = initfunc(space) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/_cache/app_array_f5e7 ine 4006, in init__builtin__ [translation:ERROR] glong_minus_2147483648 = long_helper('x80000000') [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/_cache/app_array_f5e7 ine 4005, in long_helper [translation:ERROR] return space.eval("long(%r, 16)" % value, dic, dic) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/baseobjsp [translation:ERROR] return expression.exec_code(self, w_globals, w_locals) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/eval.py", [translation:ERROR] return frame.run() [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/eval.py", [translation:ERROR] result = self.eval(executioncontext) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/pyframe.p [translation:ERROR] ctlflowexc.action(self) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/pyframe.p [translation:ERROR] ControlFlowException.action(self, frame) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/pyframe.p [translation:ERROR] self.emptystack(frame) [translation:ERROR] File "/u/jiwon/proj/pypy-0.8.x/pypy/interpreter/pyframe.p [translation:ERROR] raise self.operr [translation:ERROR] OperationError: [<W_TypeObject(ValueError)>: W_StringObject 0000')] [translation:ERROR] Processing block: [translation:ERROR] block@228 is a SpamBlock in the graph of Module.pick_builti [translation:ERROR] at pypy.module.__builtin__:118 [translation:ERROR] containing the following operations: [translation:ERROR] v2 = simple_call((type Module), space_0, (None)) [translation:ERROR] v3 = getattr(space_0, ('setitem')) [translation:ERROR] v4 = getattr(v2, ('w_dict')) [translation:ERROR] v5 = getattr(space_0, ('wrap')) [translation:ERROR] v6 = simple_call(v5, ('None')) [translation:ERROR] v7 = getattr(space_0, ('w_None')) [translation:ERROR] v8 = simple_call(v3, v4, v6, v7) [translation:ERROR] --end-- Any idea what's going on? or does translator run ok on ppc linux? or do you advise me to run it with latest version of pypy? Thanks, -Jiwon

3 3

Re: [pypy-svn] r26432 - pypy/dist/pypy/doc
by Lawrence Oluyede 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

> +* Rewrite one or several CPython extension modules to be based on **ctypes** > + (newly integrated in Python 2.5): this is generally useful for Python > + developpers, and it is now the best path to write extension modules that are > + compatible with both CPython and PyPy. See for example > + http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas/PygameOnCtypes . A related > + idea is to provide efficient numeric arrays (as in numeric/numpy/numarray) > + in this way. How a SoC (2 months longer) task can be? I'd like to apply for this kind of project but I'd like to know more about it too. We can discuss about 5, or 10 or so modules that PyPy needs? Or it's up to the student to choose them? Thanks in advance. -- Lawrence http://www.oluyede.org/blog

2 2

PyPy is flooding Genova :-)
by Antonio Cuni 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hi all, as the subject suggests, people seems to get interested in PyPy here at Genova's university, due to my thesis :-). As a consequence next week I'll probably have a talk for introducing some interested people to PyPy. Since there is a number of introductory presentations I was thinking of using one of those instead of writing yet another one; the more updated seems to be the accu2006 one, right? I've noticed that it has been written with Keynote: can someone send it me in a format I can open with OpenOffice or PowerPoint, so that I can add some slides specific to the CLI backend, please? Moreover my supervising professor is considering the possibility to establish a more actual collaboration between my university and the PyPy project, so he would be glad to speak with someone of the core team about this. ciao Anto

3 3

difference between py.py and pypy-c
by Stephan Diehl 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hallo, I found another difference in bahaviour between py.py and pypy-c with my set implementation enabled. The 'ior' operator in pypy-c does not behave as expected. My first thought was, that somehow the rdict.update method does not work as expected, but translator/goal/targetrdicttest2.py behaves, as it should, so there goes that theory. I have no idea whatsoever, where to look next. Stephan --------------------- py.py ----------------------------------------- [stephan@bach pypy]$ bin/py.py Loading grammar /home/stephan/projects/pypy-dist/pypy/interpreter/pyparser/data/Grammar2.5a faking <type 'module'> faking <type 'file'> fake-wrapping interp file <open file '<stdout>', mode 'w' at 0xb7f82068> fake-wrapping interp file <open file '<stderr>', mode 'w' at 0xb7f820b0> fake-wrapping interp file <open file '<stdin>', mode 'r' at 0xb7f82020> PyPy 0.8.0 in StdObjSpace on top of Python 2.4.1 (startuptime: 2.31 secs) >>>> w1 = 'test' >>>> w2 = 'stat' >>>> s = set(w1) >>>> t = set(w2) >>>> s set(['s', 'e', 't']) >>>> t set(['a', 's', 't']) >>>> s |= t >>>> s set(['a', 's', 'e', 't']) >>>> s = set(w1) >>>> s &= t >>>> s set(['s', 't']) >>>> --------------------- pypy-c --------------------------------------- [stephan@bach stephan]$ pypy-c debug: entry point starting debug: argv -> pypy-c debug: importing code debug: calling code.interact() Python 2.4.1 (pypy 0.8.0 build 26169) on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. (InteractiveConsole) >>>> w1 = 'test' >>>> w2 = 'stat' >>>> s = set(w1) >>>> t = set(w2) >>>> s set(['s', 'e', 't']) >>>> t set(['a', 's', 't']) >>>> s |= t >>>> s set(['s', 'e', 't']) >>>> s = set(w1) >>>> s &= t >>>> s set(['s', 't']) >>>>

2 2

Summer of code
by Antonio Cuni 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Hi all, I'm considering the possibility of applying to Google Summer of Code 2006: obviously the topic of my application would be pypy :-). As you can guess I'd like to continue working on the CLI backend, also considering that I probably won't be able to finish it before I graduate. The point is that by now I can't know how mature gencli will be when soc starts, so it's difficult to write a good proposal: how can I say where I'll arrive to if I don't know where I have to start from? I could submit a vague proposal, but I guess that something like "working on the CLI backend" is a bit too elusive for being accepted. Any suggestions? ciao Anto

2 2

Re: [pypy-svn] r26303 - pypy/dist/pypy/doc/discussion
by Armin Rigo 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Hi all, On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:25:52AM +0200, tismer(a)codespeak.net wrote: > Added: > pypy/dist/pypy/doc/discussion/howtoimplementpickling.txt (contents, props changed) > Log: > some mockup about thread pickling, not really complete, yet. Last Tuesday we decided to discuss this more on an IRC meeting, with Christian, Michael, Samuele and myself, plus of course any other interested people. Christian, can you check in the extra details you promized? I wanted to make sure we would discuss this on the basis of previously-written details. I'll anyway propose that we meet tomorrow Friday, again at 5pm CET. A bientot, Armin

1 0

Question on snake server test runs
by Sanghyeon Seo 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

http://snake.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/pypytest/summary.html I added a py.test option to pretty-print Common Lisp source files, and tests on snake server started to fail. Samuele told me that it might depend on the working directory from which py.test is run, but no matter how I try, I couldn't reproduce the failure in my machine. So my question is: how are tests run on snake server? How can I fix this failure? E if conftest.option.prettyprint: > AttributeError: Values instance has no attribute 'prettyprint' Seo Sanghyeon

4 3

security prototype & workshop plans/ideas
by hpk＠trillke.net 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Hi folks, from the EU side of things there is the plan to organize a security workshop and implement security features within PyPy. I now talked to my IBM research lab contact in Zuerich, and we discussed a few possibilities for such a workshop and the prototype, in particular two possibilities: - data tagging or "label control", or more generally attaching (security) metainformations to a python object and having those propagate through the program automatically. See e.g. http://www.pmg.lcs.mit.edu/papers/myers-popl99.pdf for some more information in this direction. This is especially interesting for PyPy as - i think - we can probably do better by e.g. also allowing to tag primitive types (JFlow doesn't do that, i think) and allowing things to happen more dynamically at runtime. - sandboxing: allowing to execute (user-supplied/induced) code and preventing it from accessing critical resources, e.g. system IO. Label control could be used for tagging e.g. user-level input with the "untrusted" label and then protecting certain functions to require trusted input (e.g. database/file modifications). Then, there could be explicit untrusted_to_trusted() conversions, turning an untrusted input into a trusted output. This would allow to concisely localise how user-supplied/untrusted input is parsed and checked. I also guess we could also go for a more general metadata-tagging approach which might be useful in more than just the security context. This are just initial ideas - there are arbitrary other possibilities (somewhere care to discuss the "E" lang here?), or are there not? :) The challenge is to find an interesting mechanism that elegantly enables such approaches - which should be the topic of our upcoming security prototype and workshop. Sandboxing and/or e.g. limiting RAM/CPU usage are also interesting to the Python world but probably are a rather orthogonal matter. Regarding the timing of the workshop it seems that something like October this year fits best. It depends on our actual plan and availability/selection of workshop participants if we rather should try to meet in Zuerich or in New York. We can also try to first arrange a discussion with them and then a meeting for presenting the results but that may be a bit much for us (we are not really lacking challenges currently :). I am posting here on pypy-dev (rather than just to selected pypy developers) because others may be interested, have comments, suggestions or might think about contributing. Security is certainly not the central topic of PyPy but our design should make it considerably easier to implement strong security features. Hum, and i guess that it's not impossible that the project might for contributors come up with funding for travels at least. best, holger

2 1

Re: [pypy-eu-svn] r26155 - pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/tokyo
by Nicolas Chauvat 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

Hi Sprinters, On Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 05:16:38AM +0200, nik(a)codespeak.net wrote: > + - PyPy debian packaging (Yutaka, Holger?) Alexandre has an ITP on this package and he has spent some time thinking about it. You should probably ask him how far he went. What about tasklet serialisation, any chance this could get done during the sprint ? It's becoming a blocker for WP09. Or should we tackle that on our side as soon as we get the chance ? -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avancée et gestion de connaissances

4 4

Tokyo sprint status
by Sanghyeon Seo 24 Apr '06

24 Apr '06

Hi, everybody! Greeting from Tokyo, You can read about past 2 days here: http://codespeak.net/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/tokyo/tokyo-planning.html Despite the file name, it's really records of planning session we have at the beginning of the day, so after that day, it's no more planning. :-) And the document is updated to match the reality then. I think "proper" sprint report will be here soon too. Yours, Sanghyeon

2 1

Re: [pypy-dev] Re: [pypy-eu-svn] r26155 - pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/tokyo
by Laura Creighton 23 Apr '06

23 Apr '06

In a message of Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:33:13 +0200, Aurélien Campéas writes: >> So - it is not a topic on this sprint. People here seem more interested >> in Lisp and Javascript backends and sockets and other weird things ;-) > >Lisp backend ? I'd be interested in seeing that. Who did express such an >idea btw ? - I don't remember having seen this talked about on pypy-dev >or other places. sanxiyn has been working on this, but had to take time off for compulsory military service. He was able to make it to the Sprint in Japan <loud cheer>. Laura

1 0

Re: /pypy/irc-logs/pypy
by Laura Creighton 23 Apr '06

23 Apr '06

In a message of Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:37:51 +0200, Laura Creighton writes: >Can we rename them from DayMonthYear format to YearMonthDay format so >they will list and sort in the correct order on the webpage? > >Laura Upon looking further, I see we have started to do this. So all that is needed is clean-up. I'd do it if I had an account on the correct machine ... Laura

1 0

/pypy/irc-logs/pypy
by Laura Creighton 23 Apr '06

23 Apr '06

Can we rename them from DayMonthYear format to YearMonthDay format so they will list and sort in the correct order on the webpage? Laura

1 0

minutes pypy-sync last thursday
by hpk＠trillke.net 23 Apr '06

23 Apr '06

Hi folks, find below the minutes of the pypy-sync meeting last thursday. best, holger pypy-sync 20th April 2006, 05:30 PM (UTC+2) ===================================================== attendants: michael, anto, carl, samuele, christian, richard, eric, aurelien, gromit, arre, anders l. - activity reports + blockers everybody posted (see at the end of these minutes) - summer of X, how do we go about it? we quickly agreed to a) go for being mentors through PSF at Google's Summe of Code campaign b) determined mentors c) to create a directory in extradoc/soc-2006 listing all info (mentors, topics) d) next week Michael will communicate all the info to Neal / PSF / SoC - what needs to be done until Iceland (21st May) for 0.9? There was some initial and involved discussion on this topic, which quickly moved to sorting out EU tasks and responsibilities for some involved people. Also related to the brief pypy-dev discussion between Armin and Holger, we determined a need to settle and agree on a distribution of tasks until and after Iceland. This we agreed to do at a specific meeting for EU developers on TUESDAY, 23rd April, 5pm (UTC+2) where Christian, Michael, Samuele, Holger, Carl, Aurelien, Anders L., and Gromit agreed to attend already. IRC log ------------------------------- Apr 20 17:28:55 <mwh> stakkars: hi! Apr 20 17:29:25 <stakkars> hi friends Apr 20 17:29:59 <stakkars> I'll give rxe a call Apr 20 17:30:25 <hpk> hi all! Apr 20 17:30:33 stakkars stedi67 Apr 20 17:30:37 <hpk> stakkars: want to wake him up? :) Apr 20 17:30:45 <Gromit> hi Apr 20 17:30:53 <mwh> T-0 according to me Apr 20 17:30:58 <hpk> yip Apr 20 17:31:01 <mwh> who is moderating? hpk ? Apr 20 17:31:06 <hpk> yes, i guess so Apr 20 17:31:17 <hpk> topics: Apr 20 17:31:17 <hpk> * activity reports Apr 20 17:31:17 <hpk> * summer of X Apr 20 17:31:17 <hpk> * work until iceland for 0.9 topics Apr 20 17:31:17 <hpk> * assigning major 0.9 topics Apr 20 17:31:23 <stakkars> he's early, probably in the company, swamped with work Apr 20 17:31:43 <hpk> so let's start with activity reports (and we can see who is actually really here on the channel active :) Apr 20 17:31:59 <arre> PREV: vacation, configuring new laptop Apr 20 17:31:59 <arre> NEXT: Tokyo sprint Apr 20 17:31:59 <arre> BLOCKERS: - Apr 20 17:32:05 <aleale> PREV: Vacation Apr 20 17:32:06 <hpk> LAST: Leysin Sprint, iceland organisation, some testing and playing around Apr 20 17:32:06 <hpk> NEXT: work on testing and build environment Apr 20 17:32:06 <hpk> BLOCKERS: - Apr 20 17:32:06 <mwh> LAST: slept off leysin, ACCU Apr 20 17:32:07 <mwh> NEXT: stackless transform? Apr 20 17:32:07 <mwh> BLOCKERS: insane busyness Apr 20 17:32:09 <auc> LAST: investigating translatability of constraint stuff Apr 20 17:32:10 <auc> NEXT: playing with choose() Apr 20 17:32:10 <auc> BLOCKERS: working, clonable coroutines Apr 20 17:32:13 <ericvrp> LAST: travelling Apr 20 17:32:13 <ericvrp> NEXT: Tokyo sprint Apr 20 17:32:13 <ericvrp> BLOCKERS: - Apr 20 17:32:16 <aleale> NEXT: Sprint Apr 20 17:32:18 <aleale> BLOCKERS: - Apr 20 17:32:23 <stedi67> LAST: set implementation, finding bugs Apr 20 17:32:23 <stedi67> NEXT: finding and documenting more bugs... Apr 20 17:32:23 <stedi67> BLOCKERS: - Apr 20 17:32:26 <antocuni> LAST: completed rlist support for ootypesystem Apr 20 17:32:27 <antocuni> NEXT: more works on ootypesystem (probably rdict) Apr 20 17:32:29 <antocuni> BLOCKER: my still poor knowledge of pypy internals :-) Apr 20 17:32:34 <cfbolz> LAST: GC work, optimizations Apr 20 17:32:35 <cfbolz> NEXT: uni stuff, trying to implement __del__ with the framework Apr 20 17:32:35 <cfbolz> BLOCKERS: new environment, time constraints Apr 20 17:32:43 <pedronis> LAST: {}[[]], tweaks and fixing various transformation problems, rested during easter Apr 20 17:32:45 <pedronis> NEXT: tokyo sprint Apr 20 17:32:46 <pedronis> BLOCKERS: - Apr 20 17:33:03 * auc is away for 5 minutes Apr 20 17:33:07 <hpk> auc: how badly do you depend on "clonable coroutines" and in which way? Apr 20 17:33:11 <hpk> oh, never mind then Apr 20 17:33:37 <hpk> ok, let's head on then Apr 20 17:33:43 <hpk> * summer of X Apr 20 17:34:05 <hpk> from in-between discussions and opinions i gather that we are all leaning towards participating in SoC as mentors through PSF Apr 20 17:34:11 <mwh> yes Apr 20 17:34:12 <stakkars> DONE: wrapping Apr 20 17:34:12 <stakkars> NEXT: finalizing, prepare next PyPy work Apr 20 17:34:12 <stakkars> BLOCK: complexity Apr 20 17:34:12 <hpk> is that correct or are there other opinions? Apr 20 17:34:35 <cfbolz> sounds good to me Apr 20 17:34:51 <aleale> ditto Apr 20 17:34:56 <arre> +1 Apr 20 17:35:00 <pedronis> +1 Apr 20 17:35:04 <hpk> fine, then let's see how we go about it Apr 20 17:35:05 <hpk> a) mentors Apr 20 17:35:06 <hpk> b) topics Apr 20 17:35:15 <Gromit> hpk: just removed last years's mentorship entry from the wiki Apr 20 17:35:21 <hpk> i suggest that we open a soc-2006 directory in extradoc with such information Apr 20 17:35:32 <mwh> everyone willing to mentor should email neal norwitz Apr 20 17:35:35 <hpk> (Aurelien already committed something today to pypy/doc) Apr 20 17:35:48 <hpk> mwh: i think we should gather on our side and then someone sends all the info Apr 20 17:36:02 <hpk> should gather info Apr 20 17:36:04 <mwh> if you need "personal references" as on the python.org wiki, feel free to mention me :) Apr 20 17:36:05 <stakkars> +1 Apr 20 17:36:11 <mwh> hpk: if you like Apr 20 17:36:24 <mwh> i'm already signed up as a mentor, cause i was one last year Apr 20 17:36:44 <hpk> mwh: ok, carl is as well i think Apr 20 17:37:03 <cfbolz> or will soon be Apr 20 17:37:06 <hpk> ok, then let's put all info into soc-2006 and send info off on the weekend Apr 20 17:37:15 <cfbolz> just to get a quick impression: Apr 20 17:37:16 <mwh> is there a deadline for mentoring? Apr 20 17:37:20 <cfbolz> who would mentor? Apr 20 17:37:25 <cfbolz> mwh: yes, there is one Apr 20 17:37:32 <hpk> 1st may i think Apr 20 17:37:38 <mwh> cfbolz: me, you, armin for certain Apr 20 17:37:40 <hpk> (but i may confuse the various deadlines) Apr 20 17:37:56 <mwh> hpk: i thought 1 may was the deadline for being a mentoring *organization* Apr 20 17:37:57 <hpk> i would also mentor but preferably to py.test, build-tool stuff i guess Apr 20 17:38:06 <cfbolz> hpk: neal writes "soon" :-) Apr 20 17:38:17 <hpk> mwh: ok, might well be, whatever, let's just get this sorted and communicate to them Apr 20 17:38:25 <mwh> hpk: sure Apr 20 17:38:28 <mwh> it shouldn't be hard Apr 20 17:38:48 <cfbolz> anybody else? Apr 20 17:39:07 <hpk> i am sure that aurelien or so would be interested Apr 20 17:39:10 <arre> Add me as well Apr 20 17:39:16 <aleale> I would prefer not to Apr 20 17:39:31 <hpk> eric also said that he would not like to Apr 20 17:39:41 <hpk> ok, then that's it for now Apr 20 17:39:44 <stakkars> I would, of course Apr 20 17:39:46 <ericvrp> I would like to b a mentor but I think it would not be a good idea (indeed) Apr 20 17:39:49 <mwh> pedronis, i guess Apr 20 17:40:03 <hpk> let's just open the soc-2006 directory and put info there Apr 20 17:40:08 <mwh> hpk: are you going to be the one who checks this in? Apr 20 17:40:17 <pedronis> mwh: ye Apr 20 17:40:17 <hpk> cfbolz: can you make this happen and make sure we communicate next week to them? Apr 20 17:40:34 <cfbolz> hpk: not before sunday, no Apr 20 17:41:00 <hpk> ok, then i start but would like you or someone else to communicate to the SoC people (Neal) Apr 20 17:41:08 <hpk> eventually Apr 20 17:41:12 <hpk> as i haven't been involved there Apr 20 17:41:23 <cfbolz> mwh: do you know neal? Apr 20 17:41:34 <mwh> cfbolz: i talked to him a bit at pycon Apr 20 17:41:45 <mwh> i can do the communicating Apr 20 17:41:52 <hpk> cool, thanks Apr 20 17:41:57 <mwh> i am away 29 apr -> 8 may (ish) Apr 20 17:42:02 <mwh> so i'll do it before then :) Apr 20 17:42:06 <hpk> ok, let's try to do it before then Apr 20 17:42:07 <hpk> yes Apr 20 17:42:10 <hpk> next topic Apr 20 17:42:24 <hpk> * 0.9 related work until iceland Apr 20 17:42:44 --> rxe (n=rxe(a)66.151.59.5) has joined #pypy-sync Apr 20 17:42:47 <hpk> hi richard :) Apr 20 17:42:57 <rxe> Hi everyone! :-) Apr 20 17:42:59 <stakkars> :-) Apr 20 17:43:01 <ericvrp> hey richard Apr 20 17:43:02 <rxe> sorry it has been a long time Apr 20 17:43:03 <mwh> hey rxe Apr 20 17:43:48 <hpk> so there has been a bit of discussion on pypy-dev Apr 20 17:44:05 <hpk> what do the others think? Apr 20 17:45:31 <cfbolz> the truth is somewhere in the middle. there is definitively more to do than just stackless pickling Apr 20 17:45:51 <ericvrp> My feeling is that a 0.9 version should be almost a 1.0 version (which I consider a "this is it" version) does that make sense? Apr 20 17:46:07 <ericvrp> which I think we are not quiet yet Apr 20 17:46:08 <cfbolz> like finishing the stackless-applevel exposure Apr 20 17:46:33 <hpk> the major topics of the 0.9 release are the ext-module compiler and stackless features Apr 20 17:46:37 <pedronis> well, there's also other stuff in the WP7 tasks which is explcitly listed Apr 20 17:46:48 <cfbolz> yes, __del__, weakref Apr 20 17:47:09 <stakkars> that's just work. pickling is hard since I still don't know how Apr 20 17:47:10 <pedronis> I don't think WP7 says anything about __dell__ or weakrefr Apr 20 17:47:26 <pedronis> well, even just work takes time Apr 20 17:47:31 <cfbolz> pedronis: then not :-) Apr 20 17:47:33 <cfbolz> pedronis: indeed Apr 20 17:47:53 <stakkars> yes but I can distribute if I know how Apr 20 17:48:06 <mwh> stakkars: what are you working planning on working on? Apr 20 17:48:21 <mwh> damn timezones mean i don't get to chat much... Apr 20 17:49:02 <stakkars> well pickling first thing, although it might depend on the new transform Apr 20 17:49:05 <hpk> cfbolz: the thing regarding "middle ground": we really only have 7 months left for tons of stuff we want to do - just postponing things from a "we don't neccessarily need to do it" will backfire IMO Apr 20 17:49:21 <hpk> so we should strike a good balance Apr 20 17:49:26 stakkars stedi67 Apr 20 17:49:33 <pedronis> cfbolz: the fact is that some unfinished WP7ish stuff is really WP5 leftovers Apr 20 17:49:34 <hpk> stakkars: note that the new transform is not fully integrated Apr 20 17:49:45 <mwh> stakkars: have you looked at the transforrm code? Apr 20 17:49:45 <hpk> it just mostly works but certainly requires work Apr 20 17:50:10 <stakkars> that's what I'm saying, might be blocker Apr 20 17:50:25 <cfbolz> pedronis: what is a wp5 leftover? Apr 20 17:50:35 <pedronis> cfbolz: well part of the GC stuff Apr 20 17:50:53 <hpk> stakkars: michael and me worked on stackless to support you, not to block you :) Apr 20 17:50:58 <mwh> i mean, maybe in the short term it makes sense for stakkars to work on channels and greenlets, and for me to try to polish the stackless transform Apr 20 17:51:00 <pedronis> stakkars: you have 9 mm in WP7 Apr 20 17:51:19 * auc is back (ouch) Apr 20 17:51:28 <stakkars> gosh. I appreciate of course. Apr 20 17:51:30 <mwh> by "short term" i mean "for a week" Apr 20 17:51:59 <stakkars> I just didn't realize that it's necessary,, before i saw pedronis message Apr 20 17:52:21 <hpk> the idea of the current topic is that we identify the issues and assign responsible persons Apr 20 17:52:30 <hpk> i am not sure we can achieve it in some minutes Apr 20 17:52:40 <hpk> but we should aim for getting that clarified latest next week Apr 20 17:53:23 <cfbolz> yes Apr 20 17:53:35 <hpk> because not discussing it will not help either :) Apr 20 17:53:47 <mwh> indeed :) Apr 20 17:53:54 <stakkars> mwh: that makes a lot of sense Apr 20 17:53:56 <pedronis> stakkars: is really your workpackage. Helping you is shifting things around. It may even become a serious issue after a point. Apr 20 17:54:25 <pedronis> but is not the right forum for that discussion Apr 20 17:54:29 <hpk> yes, i agree Apr 20 17:55:10 <stakkars> pedronis:I considered the grapg transform as an add-on, nice to have. as said, didn't know Apr 20 17:55:27 <cfbolz> stakkars: well, it will be necessary for graph pickling Apr 20 17:55:35 <cfbolz> stakkars: so it is not an addon Apr 20 17:55:36 <hpk> so we need a discussion next week about this specific "how to tackle 0.9 tasks" topic and to define the scope Apr 20 17:55:46 <mwh> cfbolz: necessary is a strong word, but i more or less agree Apr 20 17:56:03 <mwh> another point that isn't entirely irrelevant is that i'm enjoying working on 'stackless style' stuff Apr 20 17:56:12 <mwh> :) Apr 20 17:56:12 * hpk too actually Apr 20 17:56:14 <pedronis> anyway task pickling plus the other missing stuff is not a small task Apr 20 17:56:19 <hpk> yes Apr 20 17:56:24 <pedronis> to finish in less than a month Apr 20 17:56:50 <pedronis> that we are so late was not expected Apr 20 17:56:58 <hpk> ok, as we are discussing things mostly from an EU perspective i'd like to invite to a specific meeting for EU developers early next week Apr 20 17:57:15 <pedronis> yes, this is not the right forum Apr 20 17:57:21 <hpk> tuesday? Apr 20 17:57:28 <hpk> big thing is to find the right time for everyone :) Apr 20 17:57:35 <mwh> tuesday would be fine Apr 20 17:57:38 <hpk> 5pm seems likes the best compromise Apr 20 17:57:44 <hpk> midnight in japan, 8am in CA Apr 20 17:57:45 <mwh> (i will be in dÃ¼sseldorf) Apr 20 17:57:58 stakkars stedi67 Apr 20 17:58:20 <hpk> mwh, stakkars, cfbolz, pedronis, auc, aleale, arre, ...: fine for you? Apr 20 17:58:23 <stakkars> for me, the other way goes as well (midnight +) Apr 20 17:58:35 <aleale> ok Apr 20 17:58:37 <mwh> yes Apr 20 17:59:00 stakkars stedi67 Apr 20 17:59:05 <auc> ok Apr 20 17:59:14 <cfbolz> ok Apr 20 17:59:28 <stakkars> ok Apr 20 17:59:45 <hpk> great, than we close this topic (and the next one, which relates to it) Apr 20 17:59:46 <Gromit> ok Apr 20 17:59:58 <hpk> see you all, i will mail to pypy-dev to not forget anyone Apr 20 18:00:31 <hpk> auc: you are available for mentoring as well, right? Apr 20 18:00:36 <hpk> auc: mentoring SoC Apr 20 18:01:12 --> Gromit_ (n=bear(a)does-d9b90ad6.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #pypy-sync Apr 20 18:01:49 <auc> hpk: i guesss so ... Apr 20 18:02:12 <auc> but not necessarily about all of what i posted in pypy/doc

3 3

educational python environment squeak/python (from edu-sig)
by Laura Creighton 22 Apr '06

22 Apr '06

I'll let Guido's message speak for itself. Laura ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: edu-sig-bounces(a)python.org Delivery-Date: Sat Apr 22 12:20:54 2006 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:19:02 +0100 From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido(a)python.org> To: edu-sig(a)python.org I'm looking for someone to "own" the development of a Squeak-like environment for Python. I can help by getting you in touch with Alan Kay and other Squeak folks. But I just can't be managing this project myself -- I need to focus on Python 3000, which has quite a different set of goals (not incompatible, just different, and enough to keep me very busy in the next two years). To provide some background, here is (with permission, and slightly edited) a forwarded message from Mark Shuttleworth in response to something I sent him this morning. - --Guido - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mark Shuttleworth <mark(a)canonical.com> Date: Apr 22, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: Moving forward the educational Python code development To: Guido van Rossum <guido(a)python.org> Cc: Kirby Urner <urnerk(a)qwest.net>, [...] Guido van Rossum wrote: > After Kirby's posts and mine on the Python mailing list for the >education Special Interest Group (edu-sig(a)python.org), several threads >have spun up showing that there is a lot of interest in the topic of >making Python more "Squeak-like", however you might want to define >this. This is great news. My sense is that it will take three or more years to get a Squeak-like environment built up in the Python world. It will take a lot of work, more raw development work than TSF is willing to fund. Our project deliverable is the curriculum and the training program for teachers to teach it, we don't want to be responsible for delivering the unified development environment through we recognise that having a unified environment is beneficial to the project. The only way the unified development environment will actually happen is if the SqueakLand community, with Alan's leadership, makes this their goal, and figures out how to work with the Python community. It's the SqueakLand folks who understand what that environment needs to "feel" like. They have the strong vision as to what the tools should do. At the same time, the Python community will need some people to step up and welcome that effort, contributing to it over time, because the SqueakLand folks are used to Squeak and they will need to learn how best to execute their vision in Python. TSF can provide some limited funding, but we're not setup to lead development efforts (we learned the hard way with SchoolTool which is now in good shape). Most of the TSF funding will go towards actual curriculum development that USES the tools available. We will initially use Logo, Squeak and Python as-is, because they are there right now, and will develop the curriculum using what's currently available with a view to consolidating it all around Python as Python gains the ability to deliver Logo-like and Squeak-like environments. > I believe now is the time to delegate to someone other than me the >task of researching the course of action; what exactly is needed, >which toolkit to use (e.g. Mozilla, pygame, OpenGL, or something >else?), and to manage the development. Unfortunately I don't have the >time to do this myself. Does the Shuttleworth Foundation have >resources to pick up this project, now that there's momentum building >up? >This could take the form of an existing Shuttleworth employee jumping >in, or some Foundation money to get one of the interested contributors >(perhaps ) to put in their time (part-time). I don't see this >happening (at the time scale envisioned) on a purely volunteer basis. >I'm sure we can get volunteers to do coding for the project; but >managing it, researching the possible options, and making decisions >probably requires someone dedicated to this task. Yes, agreed, and we can contribute some funding towards the leadership of the effort. I'm not keen to fund "part time work with no clear deliverables" because its hard to get predictable results that way. I guess what we need are you and Alan to figure out between you who will make the most effective leader, bringing together the SqueakLand vision in a Python execution, and we would step up to fund portion of that person's time. [...] I think the leadership of this effort needs to be decided after discussion with Alan too, so that whoever is the funded driving force has buy in from both communities. If you'd like to forward this message to other folks in the community as a statement of the parts TSF is able to contribute to, please do. Mark - ---------- End forwarded message ---------- - -- - --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig ------- End of Forwarded Message

1 0

extregistry refactoring
by Armin Rigo 21 Apr '06

21 Apr '06

Hi all, Warning: if you're using the extregistry, I just refactored its interface. I think the result is nicer -- you don't have to define a bunch of functions and link them together in a register_xxx() call; instead, all relevant functions are now methods on a class that is linked via a class method call or automatically with a metaclass trick. The motivation for this was a subtle annotation crash in rctypes: indeed, in the previous model, families of built-in functions (e.g. all ctypes function objects) would get annotated in a way that kept creating new closures. The annotator was then complaining about the resulting SomeBuiltin annotation: as it stores the closure in question, it was always different whenever a block was reflown through the annotator. This refactoring was pending for some time, because previously some functions were missing some information and had to hack around to get at it. A bientot, Armin.

1 0

Upcoming Iceland sprint: 21-28 May
by Armin Rigo 21 Apr '06

21 Apr '06

Hi folks, We're pleased to announce the next PyPy sprint in Iceland from 21st (arrival) to 28th (depature) of May 2006. This sprint is kindly hosted and sponsored by EWT and CCPgames and thus we should be able to arrange funding for travels and accomodation for interested people. There are also non-PyPy activities going on -- see the full `EWT announcement`_ and people such as Tim Peters and other python-dev core developers plan to attend. If you'd like to help and join PyPy hacking around some geysers (actually we are meeting in Reykjavik, but well :), please mail us, preferrably on the `pypy-sprint mailing list`_. Please state your interest *until end this week* (friday 21st) to help the organizers plan for the sprint. The sprint goals for PyPy are, as usual, kept open to the interest of the participants, especially more so that there will be many non-PyPy people at the sprint to talk to. However, it is also likely that we will have to keep some focus on the goals of the upcoming June 0.9 release: * The extension module compiler. The goal is to be able to use a single RPython source code as an extension module for both PyPy and CPython. The means to get there is -- most likely -- by compiling ctypes-based modules into either pypy-c or a CPython dll/so. * Write some more modules in this style with ctypes. Sockets come to mind :-) * Stackless: the big missing feature is pickling running tasklets. There is also some smaller work that needs to be done, like exposing all the existing RPython-level interfaces to app-level (e.g. greenlets). * Write more documentation. * Misc topics, depending on interests: back-ends (CLI, Squeak), testing framework, modified semantics (security/sandboxing...), etc. A bientot, Armin + Holger .. _`EWT announcement`: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2006-April/004849.html .. _`pypy-sprint mailing list`: http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-sprint

2 1

From edu-sig, Guido on connecting squeak and python
by Laura Creighton 21 Apr '06

21 Apr '06

------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: edu-sig-bounces(a)python.org Delivery-Date: Fri Apr 21 10:34:25 2006 Return-Path: <edu-sig-bounces(a)python.org> Message-ID: <ca471dc20604210129o1fd21363nfa71bb9a90940ee5(a)mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:29:14 +0100 From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido(a)python.org> To: "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernhout(a)kurtz-fernhout.com> There's a lot to read in your post and the links you post -- more than I have time ofr right now. Let me try to prune some of the ideas. I'm not interested in switching to Jython for this purpose; nor am I interested in directly linking to code that's part of Squeak -- unless, perhaps, there's some low-level code that is independent of the rest of the Squeak environment while providing some functionality we need. I'm also not interested in making Python an entirely self-contained system such as Squeak is -- much of Python's strengths come from its capabilities as a glue language, seamlessly integrating with other software on many different platforms. But, after encouragement from Alan Kay, I *am* interested in producing a Squeak-like environment *on top* of Python. Alan suggested using a slightly different starting point than Squeak; modern graphics cards have a wealth of functionality that can be accessed directly. I'm no graphics expert, but I believe OpenGL and perhaps SVG could be the right basis to get started. The approach that seems to make the most sense to me (but I'm open for alternatives) is to start out by producing a solid low-level graphics package like this that can work across platforms (Linux, Windows and OSX preferably); once that is settled, we could build an application resembling Squeak's UI. There's probably more to it; but typing this email at a busy conference my thoughts are a bit distracted. - --Guido On 4/21/06, Paul D. Fernhout <pdfernhout(a)kurtz-fernhout.com> wrote: > I've long been interested in making Python development more Squeak > Smalltalk like. See for example a recent post of mine to the Jython user > mailing list with some code (would be also useful for CPython with a few > changes): > [jython-users] ReloaderWindow 0.2 (improvements to selective reloading) > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=14482359 > > On the topic of an integrated 2D/3D crossplatform solution for Python > (like Squeak has), I'd like to point to my related comments on this list > from six (!) years back: > > [Edu-sig] Common Graphical Framework for Python Tutorials? > Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:16:39 -0500 > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2000-February/000032.html > > [Edu-sig] a modest proposal II > Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:03:01 -0500 > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2000-February/000063.html > > [Edu-sig] IDLE/TK limitations for learning environments > Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:32:54 -0500 > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2000-February/000065.html > > [Edu-sig] Not well supported on the Mac? > Sun, 28 May 2000 15:24:21 -0400 > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2000-May/000495.html > > Glad to see some interest in such ideas is perking up here. :-) > > It's all quite doable with enough effort. Though I'd watch out for Squeak > licensing and some Squeak unfinished complexity management issues. I think > it might be better to just use the Squeak base cross-platform ideas or > base code (or perhaps base a new work on wxWidgets) and build a larger > common framework using Python technology and the Python license (and yet > also of interest to Squeakers, like by adding in support for a Smalltalk > parser). > > Alternatively, one could build on top of Jython -- see my post on this > list from last year on this topic: > > [Edu-sig] On Jython for education > Wed Oct 19 15:26:02 CEST 2005 > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2005-October/005410.html > > I think the Jython-based approach might be easiest, though one then has to > wrestle with other Java community and licensing issues. [I personally > think the Squeak approach would be more stable and maintainable though, > just 2000 lines of core C to port per platform, with widgets built on > that, and a dynamic loading facility for other native code.] A > cross-platform system supporting both Python and Smalltalk (and perhaps > Java) on a JVM with a complete Smalltalk-like development environment > (including cross-image debugging and development) and with 3D plus some > sort of PythonCard/HyperCard framework out of the box, which had the > option of running as a browser plugin, would be really neat. Probably at > least few person months (for me :-) to get that going to the point where > it reached a critical mass and was something people wanted to use or build > on top of though. I've worked on bits and pieces of all these ideas in a > variety of contexts, but never had a chance to put them all together. > > --Paul Fernhout > > Andre Roberge wrote: > > And, if I may quote from Kirby's follow-up post > > http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2006/04/shuttleworth-summit-day-two.html > > --- > > [...] > > Loosely coupled tools, with a bottom-up, open source curriculum > > writing process, will leave the question of tools somewhat open-ended. > > The lesson plans will specify the software needed, with multiple paths > > possible. > > --- > > +1. I couldn't agree more :-) > > ============ > > [...] > > Momentum seems to be building for a stronger graphics engine, either > > 2D or 3D, with Python bindings, that'll run interactively from within > > a browser. The Squeak folks may be willing to contribute to this > > effort. Guido feels we'll need to recruit new talent for this, as the > > Python community is currently pretty maxed out on projects. Should > > such an engine be developed, turtle stuff would be incorporated > > therein. > > ======= > > > > I would love to see this happening and would definitely be willing to > > contribute to such an effort. Of course, I would use this to port > > rur-ple to the web (as a first step). Anybody else is as excited > > about this possibility as I am? > > > > André > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > - -- - --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig ------- End of Forwarded Message

1 0

pypy-sync thursday 5:30 GMT+2
by hpk＠trillke.net 20 Apr '06

20 Apr '06

Hi there, the next pypy-sync meeting of active developers is THURSDAY, 20th April, 5:30 PM GMT+2 (30-45 minutes) at #pypy-sync on freenode with the following topics (plus the ones that get mailed ahead of the meeting ): - activity reports + blockers - summer of X, how do we go about it? there are three possibilities: - aim for Summer of PyPy through the EU (becomes unlikely) - aim for becoming an "Summer of Code" organisation - provide mentors and participate at Googles Summer-of-Code through the PSF and try to get a bit of external funding for having participants attend sprints? decision time :) - what needs to be done until Iceland (21st May) for 0.9? Samuele and Holger went through the issue tracker and identified 0.9 release issues in Leysin. But we are missing assignments ... could everyone have a look and take responsibility for resolving particular issues? https://codespeak.net/issue/pypy-dev/ (and hit "Show 0.9"). Of course it is great if you assign yourself already before the sync meeting so we can see what is missing. - tackling and assigning the major 0.9 tasks to be worked on until Iceland: - integrating/refining the new stackless CFG transformations instead of the genc-support - adding missing support (if any) for app level stackless module (e.g. yield_current_frame_to_caller ?) - implementing tasklet pickling - advancing rctypes to support interfacing with CPython runtime through a CPyObjSpace - tackling the actual extension module compiler tool (including testing improvements and writing a tutorial) - overhauling and updating translation documentation (also in preparation for EU reports pending in June) best, holger

3 2

Python Software Foundation seeks mentors and students for Google Summer of Code
by Neal Norwitz 20 Apr '06

20 Apr '06

This spring and summer, Google will again provide stipends for students (18+, undergraduate thru PhD programs) to write new open-source code. The Python Software Foundation (PSF) http://www.python.org/psf/ will again act as a sponsoring organization in Google's Summer of Code, matching mentors and projects benefiting Python and Python users. Projects can include work on the core Python language, programmer utilities, libraries, packages, frameworks related to Python, or other Python implementations like Jython, PyPy, or IronPython. Please add your project ideas to the existing set at http://wiki.python.org/moin/SummerOfCode Mentoring instructions are also on this page. The deadline is soon, so please sign up as a mentor early. If you are a student considering a project, you should start deciding now. Feel free to ask questions on python-dev(a)python.org The main page for the Summer of Code is http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html At the bottom are links to StudentFAQ, MentorFAQ, and TermsOfService. The first two have the timeline. Note that student applications are due between May 1, 17:00 PST and May 8, 17:00 PST. People interested in mentoring a student though PSF are encouraged to contact me, Neal Norwitz at nnorwitz(a)gmail.com. People unknown to Guido or myself should find a couple of people known within the Python community who are willing to act as references. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I look forward to meeting many new mentors and students. Let's improve Python! Cheers, n

1 0

Statically type-def-ing Python
by Brian C. Lum 19 Apr '06

19 Apr '06

Dear Pypy group, Let me start by thanking you all for being so helpful in the past while I was learning to work with Pypy. I am trying to do research on how to type-def variables in Python at compile time. I have been reading different papers on bounds checking and static detection with scripting languages (for security), but I have not been able to find a feasible solution with Python. I was wondering if anyone knew some good references. I honestly cannot think of any way to type-def Python, except using heuristics to make guesses at what a variable might possibly be. Thank you in advance for your help, Brian

2 1

funny slowdown
by Christian Tismer 18 Apr '06

18 Apr '06

Hi friends, at some time over easter, my compilation time on Windows for extension modules increased remarkably, from a few seconds to a minute or more. Does anybody have an idea what might have caused this? thzanks - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@stackless.com> tismerysoft GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9A : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 30 80 90 57 05 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/

1 0

Summer of Code 2006
by Niklaus Haldimann 18 Apr '06

18 Apr '06

Hi there Google is doing Summer of Code again this year: http://code.google.com/soc/ It would be possible to enter PyPy directly as a mentoring organization this time, instead of going through the PSF. Last year, student slots were given to mentoring organizations proportional to the number of applications. If there are enough applications for PyPy proper that might bring more students on board than taking slots from the PSF pool as last year (but maybe PyPy's influence in the PSF is big enough, and this doesn't really matter). What is the status of the Summer of PyPy idea, btw? Nik

7 6

Avoiding code duplication
by Antonio Cuni 17 Apr '06

17 Apr '06

Hi all, in these days I'm completing the implementation of ootypesystem/rlist.py, but I've found that often I have to write code very similar to those in lltypesystem/rlist.py. Let's explain by an example; consider the ll_listindex function in both files: # lltypesystem def ll_listindex(lst, obj, eqfn): items = lst.ll_items() lng = lst.ll_length() j = 0 while j < lng: if eqfn is None: if items[j] == obj: return j else: if eqfn(items[j], obj): return j j += 1 raise ValueError # can't say 'list.index(x): x not in list' # ootypesystem def ll_listindex(lst, obj, eqfn): lng = lst.length() j = 0 while j < lng: if eqfn is None: if lst.getitem_nonneg(j) == obj: return j else: if eqfn(lst.getitem_nonneg(j), obj): return j j += 1 raise ValueError # can't say 'list.index(x): x not in list' As you can see they are quite similar, but I can't find an elegant way to merge them. There are two problems: 1) the names of some methods don't match (e.g., ll_length vs. length 2) the setitem/getitem interface is very different The first problem is easy to solve; it should be sufficient to rename the methods in ootype.List._GENERIC_METHODS. The same isn't true for the second problem; one possibility could be to pass some dummy placeholder as argument in the same style of dum_checkidx/dum_nocheck, but I guess the code will became a nightmare. Another solution could be to add an extra level of indirection but I guess this could bring to some efficiency penalty. Any idea? ciao Anto

3 5

type inference info derived from test suites for the tested?
by Bengt Richter 17 Apr '06

17 Apr '06

Please excuse if this is OT, but I was wondering about the subject topic, i.e., using a test code suite (run with special-command-line-option?) as a kind of substitute for pragmas within a language e.g. defining a function, and winding up with some intermediate representation of the constrained function that can be used in the compilation and linking of an application that does not include the function test suite per se, yet makes use of the implicit info from the test code (per command line option that caused the compiler's info transfer to the test-info-constrained-function's intermediate representation). Maybe this could also be viewed as a kind of global optimization using combined test and application code, but factoring out and pre-caching some results of separated function+test_function inferences, and editing out test code from the final linking. I guess this is trying to use test code as a general source of auxiliary information using inference as a way to be independent of particular languages' ability to express explicit type declarations or contracts etc. TIA for any pointers/urls where I might read about this kind of thing, and whether it's a dead end or a trail being explored, either in pypy or elsewhere. Regards, Bengt Richter

2 1

Mixed modules for both PyPy and CPython
by Armin Rigo 16 Apr '06

16 Apr '06

Hi all, This is a follow-up on last night's IRC discussion. It's come to a point where e-mail is better. The topic is "WP3", i.e. how to write in Python built-in modules that work for both CPython and PyPy ("built-in" == "extension" == "compileable" for the purpose of this mail). There are two levels of issues involved in this: * In which style the modules should be written in the first place? * Which style is easier to support in both CPython and PyPy given what we have now? In PyPy, we are using "mixed modules" with an interp-level and an app-level part, both optional, with explicit ways to interact between them. The interp-level part is what gets compiled to C. It contains code like 'space.add(w_1, w_2)' to perform an app-level addition. Christian is working on an alternative, which is a single-source approach where the annotator's failures to derive types are taken as a hint that the corresponding variables should contain wrapped objects. This is a convenient but hard-to-control extension of a historical hack, which works mostly because we needed it while we were still developing the annotator and the rtyper. I am clearly biased towards "solution 1", which is to reuse the mixed modules style that we have evolved over several years. Here is some implementation effort comparison between the two styles (1=mixed module, 2=single source). It is easy to develop and test in 2, as it runs on CPython with no further efforts. For 1, the module developer needs the whole of PyPy to test his complete module. We could ease this by writing a dummy interface-compatible gateway and object space, performing sanity-checks and giving useful error messages. Then the developer only needs to check his code against this. Annotation problems in the module are easier to spot early in the model 1; indeed, the fact that with 2 we cannot gracefully crash on SomeObjects, and moreover the need for many fragile-looking small extensions to the flow object space and the annotator, is what makes me most uneasy about 2. The mixed modules are designed for PyPy, so they work there already now. For the single-source approach to work on PyPy, however, there would be many interesting and delicate problems -- both for py.py and for the translated pypy-c. I'd rather avoid to think about it too much right now :-) For translation, for 2 we already have the basic machinery implemented as a leftover from PyPy "early ages". But I want to convince you that the basic support for 1 is extremely easy, or will soon be. We need a new object space to compile with the mixed module; but this "CPyObjSpace" is completely trivial. It could be based on rctypes, in which case it would look like this: class CPyObjSpace: def newint(self, intval): return ctypes.pydll.PyInt_FromLong(intval) def add(self, w_1, w_2): return ctypes.pydll.PyNumber_Add(w_1, w_2) ... Note that this even works on top of CPython! (Not out-of-the-box on Linux, however, where for obscure reasons CPython is by default not compiled as a separate .so file...). The gateway code can be written in the same style, by using ctypes.pydll.PyObject_Call() to call the app-level parts, and ctypes callbacks for the reverse direction. The calls like 'ctypes.pydll.PyInt_FromLong()' return an instance of 'ctypes.py_object', which naturally plays the role of a wrapped object for the CPyObjSpace. The more difficult bits of translation are e.g. support for creating at interp-level types that are exposed to app-level, in particular about the special methods __add__, __getitem__ etc. There is an example of that in pypy.module.Numeric.interp_numeric, where __getitem__ is added to the TypeDef of "array". This creates some difficulty that is common to approaches 1 and 2, and which I think Christian is also working on. In 1 we would probably make the TypeDef declaration turn, for CPython, into static PyTypeObject structures. The special methods can be recognized and put into the proper slots, with a bit of wrapping. The whole PyTypeObject structure with its pointers to functions could be expressed with ctypes too: # use pypy.rpython.rctypes.ctypes_platform to get at the layout PyTypeObject = ctypes_platform.getstruct("PyTypeObject *", ...) def TypeDef(name, **rawdict): mytype = PyTypeObject() mytype.tp_name = name if '__getitem__' in rawdict: # build a ctypes callback mp_subscript = callback_wrapper(rawdict['__dict__']) mytype.tp_as_mapping.mp_subscript = mp_subscript return mytype This gives us prebuilt PyTypeObject structures in ctypes, which get compiled into the C code by rctypes. At the same time, running on top of CPython is still possible; ctypes will let you issue the following kind of calls dynamically when running on CPython: myinstance = ctypes.pydll.PyObject_Call(mytype) The same line translated by rctypes becomes in the C file: PyObject* myinstance = PyObject_Call(mytype); Of course this latter part is dependent on rctypes being completed first. I understand and respect Christian's needs for something that works right now; nevertheless, at this point I think the mixed modules approach is the best medium-term solution. This is all open to discussion, of course. ...but do keep in mind that the people who completed the annotator as it is now are not likely to appreciate the addition of Yet More Ad-Hoc Heuristics all over the place :-/ A bientot, Armin

6 14

ext module testing modes
by hpk＠trillke.net 15 Apr '06

15 Apr '06

Hi Armin, On Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 13:02 +0200, arigo(a)codespeak.net wrote: > Author: arigo > Date: Sat Apr 15 13:02:14 2006 > New Revision: 25852 > > Added: > pypy/dist/pypy/rpython/rctypes/socketmodule/test_addr.py (contents, props changed) > Modified: > pypy/dist/pypy/rpython/rctypes/socketmodule/_socket.py > pypy/dist/pypy/rpython/rctypes/socketmodule/ctypes_socket.py > Log: > Very incomplete implementation of getaddrinfo(), with a test > (only works on on-line machines so far). The idea is that rctypes > should now support all ctypes constructions that were necessary. > I will start a regular mixed-module _socket based on this, but > first we need to figure out how to best test mixed-modules based > on ctypes -- ideally, they should be testable and compilable > without the rest of the PyPy interpreter... regarding py.test support: I think eventually we may have the following testing distinctions regarding ext modules: - test mixed module with std objspace (running on top of cpython) (current default) - test mixed module with cpy-objspace connected to CPython runtime via rctypes - test mixed module on top of pypy-c I guess the second testing mode could be specified by "--objspace=cpy" and for the third we may simply allow to specify "--appdirect" which would trigger application level tests to run directly on the executable instead through pypy interpreter indirection. (with "--exec=/path/to/executable" you can already point to pypy-c but PyPy does not support enough for py.test to run this way). makes sense? holger

2 1

Re: [Edu-sig] Visual Programming in Python?
by Laura Creighton 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

This just showed up on edu-sig. Is the translator and viewer separate enough that we could just send it to this person? Laura In a message of Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:56:12 EDT, "Douglas S. Blank" writes: >Python edu-sig, > >I've been thinking about a visual programming/flowchart interface for >Python and was wondering if anyone knows of such a project. I am imaging >a Tkinter canvas (initially) with which one can add blocks that >represent statements, branches, loops... everything. Further, I imaging >that this would save (and load) real Python code, so that you could suck >in raw code, it would get parsed, and shown as a flowchart. Maybe some >additional data would be stored in comments (zoom amount, >positions/colors/properties of particular boxes). Also, one could step >through the chart, block-by-block. > >I've seen some commercial (and open source/non-Python) products, but >they seem heavy and sluggish, as if a whole lot of processing is going >on behind the scenes. Is/would it really be that hard? > >Any pointers or comments appreciated, > >-Doug > >-- >Douglas S. Blank Computer Science >Assistant Professor Bryn Mawr College >(610)526-6501 http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank > > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig(a)python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

1 0

Information from the FlowObjSpace
by Brian C. Lum 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

Dear Pypy developers: I have gone through the source code for the FlowObjSpace in pypy.objspace.flow.objspace, but I am confused how to traverse through the blocks or obtain the information for each blocks in the graph. From my understanding: space = FlowObjSpace() graph = space.build_flow(func) Once you have the graph, however, how do you know what instructions are in each block? I can iterate through the graph with iterblocks, but how do I get information from each block? I want to analyze the information in each block to do code analysis for python. Can anyone help me with this? With thanks, Brian

3 3

A problem with unbound methods
by Antonio Cuni 12 Apr '06

12 Apr '06

Hi, I have some problems for translating calls to unbound methods. Let's show with an example: class MyClass: def __init__(self, x): self.x = x class MyDerivedClass(MyClass): def __init__(self, x): MyClass.__init__(self, x) During rtyping the field and method names are mangled, so the __init__ method became something like 'o__init____variant0': as long as I call bound methods this is not a problem because the low-level op oosend contains the right mangled name, but difficult arises when I try to call an unbound method such as the one showed above; the low-level op that I obtain is this: v9 = direct_call((<pypy.rpython.ootypesystem.ootype._static_meth object at 0xb78e51ac>), self_1, x_2) Let 'x = op.args[0].value': (Pdb) x._name 'Base.__init__' (Pdb) x.graph.name 'Base.__init__' As you can see I can read only the original unmangled name, but it is useless because I've to deal with the mangled one. I've tried to search around for a place where to read that but I couldn't find it. How can I do? thanks for the help ciao Anto

3 4

pypy embedded / new atmel 32
by Michael Schneider 11 Apr '06

11 Apr '06

Hello All, I have been very interested in pypy and embedded systems. I use atmel's line (cheap, easy architecture, gcc). It is still a bit cramped for pypy. Atmel just introduced their 32 bit line. It is a whopping $16 per unit. Paralles Propeller chip uses sping (some python linage). Would the new AVR be a candidate for pypy? Article http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6110120875.html Data Sheets http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/datasheets.asp?family_id=682 It would be great to have python on this chip. This could be used in so many domains... Thanks Mike

1 0

Re: [pypy-dev] picxenk gallery :: logo :: 1
by Laura Creighton 11 Apr '06

11 Apr '06

In a message of Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:54:25 PDT, Christian Tismer writes: >http://image.xenbio.net/logo/pypy_proto > >Heh, not bad :-) > >what do you think? >_______________________________________________ >pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net >http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev I was always very fond of one of the rejected python.org logos Tim Parkin came up with. I include it as an attatchment. Tim also sent me some urls of other rejected python.org logos, and confirmed that if we want it, it is ours. so first the urls, but the one I like best is the attatchment ... http://www.artfiles.org/python.org/pub/beta.python.org/resources/design/his… logoandtypeface.gif http://www.artfiles.org/python.org/pub/beta.python.org/resources/design/his… master.png Laura

3 2

picxenk gallery :: logo :: 1
by Christian Tismer 10 Apr '06

10 Apr '06

http://image.xenbio.net/logo/pypy_proto Heh, not bad :-) what do you think?

1 0

Printing a Flowgraph
by Brian C. Lum 10 Apr '06

10 Apr '06

Dear Pypy developers: I was reading how you generate a flowgraph with Pypy from the getting-started page. I was just wondering if anyone knew how to print that graph once it displays. I don't really have much experience with Graphviz. Is there a way to save the graphviz file or print it to a .ps? http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/getting-started.html#trying-out-the… Thanks! Brian Just an FYI, if you want to try to follow the directions, they're a little bit outdated. To run it (after installing Pygame), start the interactive translator: cd pypy/bin python translator.py and to view a sample code: >>> t = Translation(test.is_perfect_number) >>> t.view()

2 2

std objectspace interface
by Stephan Diehl 07 Apr '06

07 Apr '06

Hallo all, I have a question about the standard objectspace interface. It's about how to best return an iterator. While writing the 'set' implementation, it occured to me, that I'm using a W_SeqIterObject directly, which is bad, since this breaks the intended separation of types / objects. Instead, I'd like to use something like space.newseqiter. But 'newseqiter' takes a wrapped object, while I'd rather use a way to 'translate' some interp level iterator of wrapped objects directly to an application lever iterator. This would be similar to newlist which creates an application level list of application level objects out of an interp level list of application level objects. Or is the dictobject way the preferred one? There we have special iterator object 'W_DictIter_Keys', for example. I hope I make a bit of sense. Cheers Stephan

2 2

Re: [pypy-dev] List and string in ootypesystem
by Niklaus Haldimann 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Hi Antonio (and others) As you have probably seen, we started work on list support for ootypesystem here at the ongoing Leysin sprint. This cleared things up a bit for me on the conceptual level. Here's how OO lists work: - There is a new type constructor "List" in the ootype module. The low-level type of RPython list in the ootypesystem is a List instance with the item type of the list provided as an argument. E.g., an RPython list of integers has the low-level type List(Signed). - The interface of an OO list is defined by List._METHODS (see List.__init__). This interface is still incomplete, but it should be kept as small as possible, but large enough to support all operations permitted in RPython on lists. - When it comes to low-level operations, Lists are treated similarly to Instances. "new" is used to instantiate an (empty) list. Methods of the interface are rtyped as "oosend" operations with the name of the method. - Backends must special-case "new" with Lists and "oosends" to Lists. Basically, "new" can be mapped to the construction of a native list in the backend. The oosends can be mapped to native methods of the native list. All of this works for some basic list operations at this point (length, append, getitem, setitem), but there's still quite a bit of work to do for full list support in ootypesystem. After all this, the roadmap for bringing all other data structures to ootypesystem is now pretty clear to me: - dicts: Can be implemented analoguous to lists (type constructor, minimal interface etc.) - strings: Analoguous to lists, but no type constructor necessary - ranges, slices: Can be implemented as a special Instance (analoguous to tuples, in a way) I have two more days here at the Leysin sprint to work on lists. After that I again won't have much time to work on PyPy, so Antonio (or anyone else), you're very welcome to continue from here. I think the list code can serve as a good starting point for the other data structures. If there are any questions, I'm happy to answer them (if I can ;)). Cheers Nik

4 6

rctypes design document
by Gerald Klix 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, yesterday I checked in the final version of the rcytpes design document. I am convinced I finally got everything right. Especially the management of keep alive pointers. Have fun, Gerald - -- GPG-Key: http://keyserver.veridis.com:11371/search?q=0xA140D634 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEMRvuEDg9cqFA1jQRAtOUAJ9hj26mRbeXULn3cxZ9Rhp3bBdOsACfe5P4 ssR79dN5e8brVM0y3JIZDNw= =pLSI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

how to get into the codebase? Open bugs?
by Niko Matsakis 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Hello, I am yet-another-compiler-PhD-student interested in exploring PyPy. I have been lurking on the list for some time, and a Python enthusiast for longer, but I have yet to really dig into PyPy to get a better understanding of how it works (beyond what is published on the web site). In previous jobs and lives, I've always found that fixing a few simple bugs or implementing some low priority features can be a great way to delve into a code base. As such, I am wondering if there is a list somewhere of such "open bugs" or pending tasks that I might try to tackle. I understand that attending a Code Sprint would also be a great way to get into the code, but I'm not sure how/when I'll be able to fit that into my schedule. Perhaps if there is one close to Switzerland, or somewhere my wife wouldn't going on vacation. :) Eventually, of course, I'd love to be conversant enough with the PyPy code base to try experimenting more boldly with it, but I guess one must take baby steps before one can run. Niko

4 4

Re: email problem, please use this address
by Christian Tismer 05 Apr '06

05 Apr '06

Christian Tismer wrote: > Hi, > > I have trouble with tismer.com, which happened to crash right now when > I'm > in the US. I hope to get in contact with service staff late nonight. > > Until then, please use this email address if you want to reach me. > > cheers - chris > This happened again, today! so, pls see above :-)

1 0

Rtyping classes definitions?
by Antonio Cuni 04 Apr '06

04 Apr '06

Hi, I'm writing the code that generates CLI classes starting from ootypesystem classes definitions, but as always I have a problem :-). At the moment the only way to access class definitions is by calling TranslationContext.annotator.getuserclassdefinitions(), which returns a list of ClassDef instances: I've noticed that class attributes are not typed but only annotated. Obviously for generating CLI classes I need to rtype class definitions, so that I can know the exact low-level type of the fields: I wondered if the absence of the rtyping step is intended or if it is a thing to do. In the latter case I could try to do it (hoping to do better than with rlist :-). ciao Anto

3 4

inquiry: phd positions
by Jakob Praher 03 Apr '06

03 Apr '06

hi all, my name is Jakob Praher. I am located in Linz, Austria. Currently I am finishing my master thesis, which is about developing an aspect oriented dynamic bytecode instrumentation framework for program analysis on top of LLVM. I am very interested to work in that area as a PHd student. From your website I know you are also working on an LLVM backend. PyPy seems to be a European effort, so my naive question is, whether you have any PhD projects in this area or could point me to some further information. I would be very interested to hearing from you. Thank you Jakob

4 6

Re: [pypy-dev] [Fwd: Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers (CfP)]
by Laura Creighton 01 Apr '06

01 Apr '06

In a message of Sat, 01 Apr 2006 14:53:02 -0800, David Ascher writes: >Laura Creighton wrote: > >>Thank you Nik for this important information, we did indeed >>believe that we missed the deadline. >> >>David Ascher is Canadian, as is ActiveState. I have cc'd this to him >>so that he can go about the business of correcting the pure >>slander that they are American, because Nik has clearly taken >>this from some other site. >> >Thanks, I'd already gotten the CFP fixed, but after it started spreading. > >For the record, I'm not Canadian, although I am in Canada. I'm french >and american =). Interesting mix, apologies for getting it wrong. Laura Creighton - in Sweden, but from NOVA SCOTIA or ACADIE for those of us for whom such things matter :-) (we don't feel particularly 'Canadian' and leave that for the people of Ontario, but we sure know where home is. Since Nik is from Switzerland, he will understand this sort of feeling perfectly well. :-) ) Laura

1 0

Re: [pypy-dev] [Fwd: Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers (CfP)]
by Laura Creighton 01 Apr '06

01 Apr '06

Thank you Nik for this important information, we did indeed believe that we missed the deadline. David Ascher is Canadian, as is ActiveState. I have cc'd this to him so that he can go about the business of correcting the pure slander that they are American, because Nik has clearly taken this from some other site. Laura Creighton In a message of Sat, 01 Apr 2006 23:10:28 +0200, Niklaus Haldimann writes: >Hi there > >If I remember correctly some people were under the impression that the >deadline for the Dynamic Languages Symposium at OOPSLA has already >passed. Obviously this isn't so (it's June 1st, see below). If PyPy is >going to submit a technical paper to just one conference this year, it >should probably be this one. ;) Considering who's on the program >committee it's also likely that it will actually be accepted. > >Cheers >Nik > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers (CfP) >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:20:47 +0200 >From: Robert Hirschfeld <robert.hirschfeld(a)gmx.net> >Reply-To: hirschfeld(a)acm.org, The general-purpose Squeak developers list ><squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> >To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org, croquet(a)lists.wisc.edu > >Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers > >Call for papers > >Portland, Oregon, United States, October 22, 2006 > > >http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/dls2006/ > > >The Dynamic Languages Symposium (DLS) at OOPSLA 2006 is a forum for >discussion of dynamic languages, their implementation and application. >While mature dynamic languages including Smalltalk, Lisp, Scheme, and >Prolog continue to grow and inspire new converts, a new generation of >dynamic scripting languages such as Python, Ruby, PHP, and JavaScript >are successful in a wide range of applications. DLS provides a place for >researchers and practitioners to come together and share their >knowledge, experience, and ideas for future research and development. > >The Technical Papers track of DLS 2006 invites high quality papers >reporting original research, innovative contributions or experience >related to dynamic languages, their implementation and application. >Accepted Papers will be published in the OOPSLA conference companion and >the ACM Digital Library. > > >Areas of interest include but are not limited to > >* Reflection and meta-programming >* Very late binding, dynamic composition, and runtime adaptation >* Actors and active objects >* Innovative language features and implementation techniques >* Development and platform support, tools >* Language symbiosis and multi-paradigm languages >* Experience reports and case studies >* Interesting applications >* Educational approaches and perspectives >* Domain-oriented programming >* Object-oriented, aspect-oriented, and context-oriented programming > > >Submissions and proceedings > >We invite original contributions that neither have been published >previously nor are under review by other refereed events or >publications. Research papers should describe work that advances the >current state of the art. Experience papers should be of broad interest >and should describe insights gained from substantive practical >applications. The program committee will evaluate each contributed paper >based on its relevance, significance, clarity, and originality. > >Papers are to be submitted electronically at >http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/node2006/ in PDF format. Submissions >need to use the ACM format, templates for which can be found at >http://www.acm.org/sigs/pubs/proceed/template.html. > > >Important dates > >Submission of papers (hard deadline): June 1, 2006 (Thursday) >Author notification: July 1, 2006 (Saturday) >Final version due: July 11, 2006 (Tuesday) >DLS Technical Papers Day: October 22, 2006 (Sunday) >DLS Invited Talks Day: October 23, 2006 (Monday) > > >Chair > >Robert Hirschfeld >Hasso-Plattner-Institut, University of Potsdam, Germany >hirschfeld(a)acm.org > > >Program committee > >David Asher, ActiveState, United States >Gilad Bracha, Sun Microsystems, United States >Pascal Costanza, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium >Richard P. Gabriel, Sun Microsystems Laboratories, United States >Robert Hirschfeld, HPI, University of Potsdam, Germany (chair) >David Leibs, Advanced Micro Devices, United States >Wolfgang De Meuter, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium >Stephane Ducasse, Universite de Savoie, France >Oscar Nierstrasz, University of Berne, Switzerland >Ian Piumarta, Viewpoints Research Institute, United States >David Simmons, Microsoft, United States >Michael Sperber, University of Tuebingen, Germany >Dave Thomas, Bedarra Research Labs, Canada >Martin von Loewis, HPI, University of Potsdam, Germany >Jon L White, United States >Allen Wirfs-Brock, Microsoft, United States >Roel Wuyts, Unversite Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium > > >_______________________________________________ >pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net >http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev

2 1

[Fwd: Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers (CfP)]
by Niklaus Haldimann 01 Apr '06

01 Apr '06

Hi there If I remember correctly some people were under the impression that the deadline for the Dynamic Languages Symposium at OOPSLA has already passed. Obviously this isn't so (it's June 1st, see below). If PyPy is going to submit a technical paper to just one conference this year, it should probably be this one. ;) Considering who's on the program committee it's also likely that it will actually be accepted. Cheers Nik -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers (CfP) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:20:47 +0200 From: Robert Hirschfeld <robert.hirschfeld(a)gmx.net> Reply-To: hirschfeld(a)acm.org, The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org, croquet(a)lists.wisc.edu Dynamic Languages Symposium 2006 - Technical Papers Call for papers Portland, Oregon, United States, October 22, 2006 http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/dls2006/ The Dynamic Languages Symposium (DLS) at OOPSLA 2006 is a forum for discussion of dynamic languages, their implementation and application. While mature dynamic languages including Smalltalk, Lisp, Scheme, and Prolog continue to grow and inspire new converts, a new generation of dynamic scripting languages such as Python, Ruby, PHP, and JavaScript are successful in a wide range of applications. DLS provides a place for researchers and practitioners to come together and share their knowledge, experience, and ideas for future research and development. The Technical Papers track of DLS 2006 invites high quality papers reporting original research, innovative contributions or experience related to dynamic languages, their implementation and application. Accepted Papers will be published in the OOPSLA conference companion and the ACM Digital Library. Areas of interest include but are not limited to * Reflection and meta-programming * Very late binding, dynamic composition, and runtime adaptation * Actors and active objects * Innovative language features and implementation techniques * Development and platform support, tools * Language symbiosis and multi-paradigm languages * Experience reports and case studies * Interesting applications * Educational approaches and perspectives * Domain-oriented programming * Object-oriented, aspect-oriented, and context-oriented programming Submissions and proceedings We invite original contributions that neither have been published previously nor are under review by other refereed events or publications. Research papers should describe work that advances the current state of the art. Experience papers should be of broad interest and should describe insights gained from substantive practical applications. The program committee will evaluate each contributed paper based on its relevance, significance, clarity, and originality. Papers are to be submitted electronically at http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/node2006/ in PDF format. Submissions need to use the ACM format, templates for which can be found at http://www.acm.org/sigs/pubs/proceed/template.html. Important dates Submission of papers (hard deadline): June 1, 2006 (Thursday) Author notification: July 1, 2006 (Saturday) Final version due: July 11, 2006 (Tuesday) DLS Technical Papers Day: October 22, 2006 (Sunday) DLS Invited Talks Day: October 23, 2006 (Monday) Chair Robert Hirschfeld Hasso-Plattner-Institut, University of Potsdam, Germany hirschfeld(a)acm.org Program committee David Asher, ActiveState, United States Gilad Bracha, Sun Microsystems, United States Pascal Costanza, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium Richard P. Gabriel, Sun Microsystems Laboratories, United States Robert Hirschfeld, HPI, University of Potsdam, Germany (chair) David Leibs, Advanced Micro Devices, United States Wolfgang De Meuter, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium Stephane Ducasse, Universite de Savoie, France Oscar Nierstrasz, University of Berne, Switzerland Ian Piumarta, Viewpoints Research Institute, United States David Simmons, Microsoft, United States Michael Sperber, University of Tuebingen, Germany Dave Thomas, Bedarra Research Labs, Canada Martin von Loewis, HPI, University of Potsdam, Germany Jon L White, United States Allen Wirfs-Brock, Microsoft, United States Roel Wuyts, Unversite Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium

1 0