Mailman 3 March 2011 - pypy-dev

Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
by Laura Creighton 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:09:19 +0100, Antonio Cuni writes: >Hi all, > >the deadlines for GSoc are approaching, and at some point we should proba >bly >make a blog post about that. > >But first, we need to 1) collect ideas for possible tasks and 2) find >potential mentors. > >Two ideas that just came to my mind: > >- "general work" on speed.pypy.org (we need to define better what we want >, of >course) > >- improving the jitviewer, maybe integrating it with the profiler (when w >e'll >have one :-)) > >- <insert-your-idea-here> :-) > >ciao, >Anto 3.x conversions -- a) write an interpreter b) do the fiddly bits needed to integrate the new interpreter with our codebase c) get the 3.whatever tests to pass I think this is too much work for one SoC student, but maybe not if it was set up as 2 projects, one of which stared after the other did. I am not sure how SoC is being handles for people who live in the Southern hemisphere and who go to classes in June, July, etc. >_______________________________________________ >pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net >http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev

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*Rant* No Reply-To?
by Timothy Baldridge 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

Why is there no "Reply-To" in the headers on this list? Whenever, in gmail, I hit "reply" it automatically sets the to address to the "from" field in the mailing list e-mail. So I end up e-mailing the person directly instead of the list. This is highly frustrating. Timothy -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth)

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ideas for Google Summer of code
by Gary Robinson 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

Work on numpy/scipy integration. That will really help pypy be more useful to people in the scientific and A.I. communities.. -- Gary Robinson CTO Emergent Discovery, LLC personal email: garyrob(a)me.com work email: grobinson(a)emergentdiscovery.com Company: http://www.emergentdiscovery.com Blog: http://www.garyrobinson.net

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phb impression from speed.pypy.org
by Massa, Harald Armin 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

Hello, I really love the improvements to the clearity of speed.pypy.org In the last days I have dropped some times on that page, aaaand... although I read the description and understand it, what my mind FIRST processes from the How has PyPy performance evolved over time? picture is that "performance got worse" Yes; right after that I read the small print of "smaller is better". But still... my eyes tell me "it got worse". Would it be possible to think of a presentation that allows to GROW those elements? Having a measurement comparable to transaction per second; or whatever-stones. Or just project the 1/x of every measurment ... just the subconcious thinks "something shrinking is not sexy". There is allways the experience with "wow, you have grown so much" ... nobody tells their (shrinking) elders "wow, you have shrunken so much"... Another small point: The headline is "...over time", but the x-axis shows "over versions". If I call correctly, the delta-t between "release of cpython 2.6.2" to "pypy1.3" is different form dt(1.3,1.4) is different from dt(1.4,trunk) As much as I remember, the speedup is speeding up ... Would such changes be possible? Does someone else think they may be positive? harald -- GHUM GmbH Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Straße 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607 Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 734971 - persuadere. et programmare

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Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
by Laura Creighton 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:18:07 +1100, William ML Leslie writes: >Where did you want this discussion to go, Laura? It looks like you >wanted to talk about the specific problems that need to be dealt with >while removing the GIL, but it seems to have disintegrated into the >same "concurrency model X is better than concurrency model Y" free for >all that regularly seems to happen on this list. Regardless of the >API that runtimes written with the translation toolkit may provide, >getting rid of the GIL is a precursor to the implementations of most >of these models. > >-- >William Leslie I'm at a Sprint at PyCON, as are many of the people I think would be best at answering these specific questions. So it is not surprising that they are not answering them now. I, myself, am personally interested in finding out how languages I have never looked at do these things, because I expect it to influence how one gets rid of the GIL. I was hoping to have an insight as to how one could avoid going the route of reimplementing fine grained locks everywhere, pervasively, all through the codebase. But all I am seeing now is more evidence that this is impossible. Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To?
by gorla.patricia＠gmail.com 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

I'd imagine a default 'reply-to-all' would be much more harmful, unless you can apply these settings based on a filter. New weekend project? ------Original Message------ From: Victor Garcia Sender: pypy-dev-bounces(a)codespeak.net To: Timothy Baldridge Cc: pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To? Sent: Mar 16, 2011 14:33 Timothy Baldridge wrote: > Why is there no "Reply-To" in the headers on this list? Whenever, in > gmail, I hit "reply" it automatically sets the to address to the > "from" field in the mailing list e-mail. So I end up e-mailing the > person directly instead of the list. This is highly frustrating. A quick workaround is to enable "Default 'Reply to all'" in GMail's labs. Victor _______________________________________________ pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

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Re: [pypy-dev] Any Multithreading Primitives?
by Laura Creighton 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

In a message of Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:04:04 EST, Timothy Baldridge writes: >Does PyPy have any sort of multithreading primitives that are >available in rpython programs? I'm specifically looking for CAS. I can >probably simulate a mutex with CAS. Or do I have to drop down to some >sort of assembly generation to atomically update a object reference? > >Thanks, > >Timothy Will anything written here: http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/stackless.html be of any use to you? Note, this documentation isquite old and needs attention, and right now the stackless transform does not work with the JIT. changing things so that it would work doesn't seem to be that much work, though, we just haven't gotten around to it. Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
by Benjamin Peterson 17 Mar '11

17 Mar '11

2011/3/14 Timothy Baldridge <tbaldridge(a)gmail.com>: > They may not be thread-safe, but as far as a program goes, do we > really care? If I have two threads adding items to the same list, > should I really be expecting the interpreter to keep things straight? > What's wrong with forcing the user to lock structures before editing > them? This is something that Java, and C#, and C++ all require. Yes, the Python interpreter should never crash because of user mistakes. -- Regards, Benjamin

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Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To?
by Laura Creighton 16 Mar '11

16 Mar '11

In a message of Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:53:44 EST, Timothy Baldridge writes: >Why is there no "Reply-To" in the headers on this list? Whenever, in >gmail, I hit "reply" it automatically sets the to address to the >"from" field in the mailing list e-mail. So I end up e-mailing the >person directly instead of the list. This is highly frustrating. > >Timothy > http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html Laura

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Any Multithreading Primitives?
by Timothy Baldridge 15 Mar '11

15 Mar '11

Does PyPy have any sort of multithreading primitives that are available in rpython programs? I'm specifically looking for CAS. I can probably simulate a mutex with CAS. Or do I have to drop down to some sort of assembly generation to atomically update a object reference? Thanks, Timothy -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth)

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