Mailman 3 March 2011 - pypy-dev

Next sprint
by Armin Rigo 27 Mar '11

27 Mar '11

Hi all, The next sprint will most probably occur in Gothenburg, April 25th to May 1st. A proper sprint announcement should follow shortly. A bientôt, Armin.

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Runtime module loading
by Timothy Baldridge 26 Mar '11

26 Mar '11

I have a program written in RPython. Is there a built-in way to import other RPython modules at runtime? Or is that some sort of upcoming feature? Basically I'm writing a language using RPython and I'm trying to figure out how to allow the user to load modules without making them create an FFI. Timothy -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth)

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Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
by hyarion＠iinet.net.au 25 Mar '11

25 Mar '11

On Thu Mar 17 21:30 , Laura Creighton sent: >In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:18:07 +1100, William ML Leslie writes: >>Where did you want this discussion to go, Laura? It looks like you >>wanted to talk about the specific problems that need to be dealt with >>while removing the GIL, but it seems to have disintegrated into the >>same "concurrency model X is better than concurrency model Y" free for >>all that regularly seems to happen on this list. Regardless of the >>API that runtimes written with the translation toolkit may provide, >>getting rid of the GIL is a precursor to the implementations of most >>of these models. >> >>-- >>William Leslie > >I'm at a Sprint at PyCON, as are many of the people I think would be >best at answering these specific questions. So it is not surprising >that they are not answering them now. I, myself, am personally interested >in finding out how languages I have never looked at do these things, >because I expect it to influence how one gets rid of the GIL. I was >hoping to have an insight as to how one could avoid going the route >of reimplementing fine grained locks everywhere, pervasively, all >through the codebase. But all I am seeing now is more evidence that >this is impossible. This may be a dumb question, but has anyone considered software transactional memory for this sort of thing? My experience comes from the implementation side of STM in a very different language to (R)Python, but it seems like this might be a reasonable fir for STM's strengths. The GIL gives you a serial execution order of bytecodes, with no particular guarantees about which order (because if it matters there should be application level concurrency control). Wrapping each bytecode in an STM transaction would give you an as-if-serial execution order, again with no guarantees about which order. You get transaction overheads instead of lock/unlock overheads, but some STM systems can be quite efficient for short transactions that rarely conflict. There'd be a lot of problems to solve, of course. But has anyone already considered this and figured out that it's impossible or impractical? -- Ben

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Ctypes module written in RPython
by Alex Perry 25 Mar '11

25 Mar '11

I can't find it in the docs, but it has been alluded to in the past. How far is the project from being able to compile a rpython module? I'd expect that to emit a wrapper that imports ctypes and declares calls into a shared library, and a directory of C code which implements the internals and can compile into the expected shared library.

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Re: [pypy-dev] Is the built-in re.py supposed to translate?
by Alex Gaynor 23 Mar '11

23 Mar '11

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Alex Perry <alex.perry(a)pamurray.com> wrote: > I'm confused then. I thought all imports were supposed to go through > the type emulation before they hit rpython and the nitty gritty of > translation. Do I have to get my target.py to load the type emulator > and then import re.py on top of it? > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Alex Perry <alex.perry(a)pamurray.com> > wrote: > >> > >> $ ./pypy-c translate.py target.py > >> [...] > >> AnnotatorError: annotation of <pypy.annotation.dictdef.DictValue > >> object at 0x0000000004cd7a98> degenerated to SomeObject() > >> Simple call of incompatible family: > >> (KeyError getting at the binding!) > >> > >> Happened at file /usr/src/pypy/lib-python/2.7.0/re.py line 232 > >> > >> cachekey = (type(key[0]),) + key > >> ==> p = _cache.get(cachekey) > >> if p is not None: > >> > >> Previous annotation: > >> (none) > >> Processing block: > >> block@9 is a <class 'pypy.objspace.flow.flowcontext.SpamBlock'> > >> in (re:229)_compile__star_2 > >> containing the following operations: > >> v0 = getitem(key_0, (0)) > >> v1 = type(v0) > >> v2 = newtuple(v1) > >> v3 = add(v2, key_0) > >> v4 = simple_call((method get), v3) > >> v5 = is_(v4, (None)) > >> v6 = is_true(v5) > >> --end-- > >> > >> $ cat target.py > >> #! /usr/bin/python2.6 > >> > >> def entry_point(argv): > >> import re > >> s = re.sub(r'[^a-fA-F\d]', '', str(argv[1])) > >> print s.decode('hex') > >> > >> def target(*args): > >> return entry_point, None > >> > >> if __name__ == '__main__': > >> import sys > >> entry_point(sys.argv) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net > >> http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev > > > > Nope, basically nothing in the stdlib is RPython. > > > > Alex > > > > -- > > "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right > to > > say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire) > > "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero > > > > > I'm not sure I follow, what is the type emulator? Alex -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire) "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero

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Is the built-in re.py supposed to translate?
by Alex Perry 23 Mar '11

23 Mar '11

$ ./pypy-c translate.py target.py [...] AnnotatorError: annotation of <pypy.annotation.dictdef.DictValue object at 0x0000000004cd7a98> degenerated to SomeObject() Simple call of incompatible family: (KeyError getting at the binding!) Happened at file /usr/src/pypy/lib-python/2.7.0/re.py line 232 cachekey = (type(key[0]),) + key ==> p = _cache.get(cachekey) if p is not None: Previous annotation: (none) Processing block: block@9 is a <class 'pypy.objspace.flow.flowcontext.SpamBlock'> in (re:229)_compile__star_2 containing the following operations: v0 = getitem(key_0, (0)) v1 = type(v0) v2 = newtuple(v1) v3 = add(v2, key_0) v4 = simple_call((method get), v3) v5 = is_(v4, (None)) v6 = is_true(v5) --end-- $ cat target.py #! /usr/bin/python2.6 def entry_point(argv): import re s = re.sub(r'[^a-fA-F\d]', '', str(argv[1])) print s.decode('hex') def target(*args): return entry_point, None if __name__ == '__main__': import sys entry_point(sys.argv)

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When translating pypy, how do I notify it of library locations?
by Alexander Golec 23 Mar '11

23 Mar '11

I'm building pypy with the default JIT configuration, and I'm on a machine where I do not have root access. I've installed the libraries that I need in my ~/lib folder, but I can't get pypy to see them. I can neither see the library files, nor the headers. I've tried setting the following options : --cflags=COMPILERFLAGS --ldflags=LINKERFLAGS but to no avail... Alex

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Re: [pypy-dev] way to refer to our online doc
by Laura Creighton 23 Mar '11

23 Mar '11

In a message of Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:12:57 +0100, "Amaury Forgeot d'Arc" writes: >Hi, >2011/3/23 Laura Creighton <lac(a)openend.se>: >> over on bitbucket I am looking at >> >> https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/src/04d276c92744/pypy/doc/ >> >> and I assume that the 04*44 is just some revision number. =A0How do >> we want to refer to the docs in general now that we have moved? > >I just replaced the rev number with "default": >https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/src/default/pypy/doc/ > >Another branch name should work equally. > >Amaury Forgeot d'Arc I guess the question is, do we want to refer to 'default' or to 'tip' ? Laura

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way to refer to our online doc
by Laura Creighton 23 Mar '11

23 Mar '11

over on bitbucket I am looking at https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/src/04d276c92744/pypy/doc/ and I assume that the 04*44 is just some revision number. How do we want to refer to the docs in general now that we have moved? Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] status of the graphviz server on codespeak?
by Laura Creighton 23 Mar '11

23 Mar '11

In a message of Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:02:25 +0100, Antonio Cuni writes: >On 23/03/11 02:36, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Laura Creighton <lac(a)openend.se> wrote >: >>> getting-started-dev says: >>> >>> Download and install `Dot Graphviz`_ (optional if you have an internet >>> connection: the flowgraph viewer then connects to >>> codespeak.net and lets it convert the flowgraph by a graphviz serve >r). >>> >>> What's going to happen to that when codespeak goes away? >> >> This one is defunct for ages now I think. > >no, I think it's still up: >http://codespeak.net/pypy/convertdot.cgi > >we can either migrate it to some other machine (tannit?) or discontinue t >he >service. Nowadays, it's only useful for us developers, and (I think) we a >ll >have graphviz installed locally. I think discontinuation is the way to go. Running on tannit is a bad idea, since it would impact our benchmarks, but running someplace else is a possibility. I don't think it's worth it. Laura > >ciao, >Anto

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