Mailman 3 January 2008 - Mailman-coders

[ mailman-Bugs-1878088 ] UNsubscribe NON-subscribers?!
by SourceForge.net Jan. 23, 2008

Jan. 23, 2008

Bugs item #1878088, was opened at 2008-01-23 21:08 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878088&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: (un)subscribing Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None >Priority: 1 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: UNsubscribe NON-subscribers?! Initial Comment: >From the "Members list: member options login page", one can enter the name of some NON-subscriber, and click UNsubscribe, and see "The confirmation email has been sent." Now as to mail actually being sent, maybe it isn't, thank goodness, I'm not sure. but at least don't say "The confirmation email has been sent." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878088&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1878090 ] if admin wants to be informed of changes of address
by SourceForge.net Jan. 23, 2008

Jan. 23, 2008

Bugs item #1878090, was opened at 2008-01-23 21:13 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878090&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: (un)subscribing Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None >Priority: 1 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: if admin wants to be informed of changes of address Initial Comment: Users are allowed to change their addresses all behind the back of the administrator, as apparently the closest button governing this is admin_notify_mchanges which doesn't track changes of address. So in case the administrator is interested in such mundane news, he can only check Membership Management often. (Only have web interface here. No shell.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878090&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1878090 ] if admin wants to be informed of changes of address
by SourceForge.net Jan. 23, 2008

Jan. 23, 2008

Bugs item #1878090, was opened at 2008-01-23 21:13 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878090&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: (un)subscribing Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) >Summary: if admin wants to be informed of changes of address Initial Comment: Users are allowed to change their addresses all behind the back of the administrator, as apparently the closest button governing this is admin_notify_mchanges which doesn't track changes of address. So in case the administrator is interested in such mundane news, he can only check Membership Management often. (Only have web interface here. No shell.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878090&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1878090 ] admin wants to be informed of changes of addressif
by SourceForge.net Jan. 23, 2008

Jan. 23, 2008

Bugs item #1878090, was opened at 2008-01-23 21:13 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878090&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: (un)subscribing Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: admin wants to be informed of changes of addressif Initial Comment: Users are allowed to change their addresses all behind the back of the administrator, as apparently the closest button governing this is admin_notify_mchanges which doesn't track changes of address. So in case the administrator is interested in such mundane news, he can only check Membership Management often. (Only have web interface here. No shell.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878090&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1878088 ] UNsubscribe NON-subscribers?!
by SourceForge.net Jan. 23, 2008

Jan. 23, 2008

Bugs item #1878088, was opened at 2008-01-23 21:08 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878088&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: (un)subscribing Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: UNsubscribe NON-subscribers?! Initial Comment: >From the "Members list: member options login page", one can enter the name of some NON-subscriber, and click UNsubscribe, and see "The confirmation email has been sent." Now as to mail actually being sent, maybe it isn't, thank goodness, I'm not sure. but at least don't say "The confirmation email has been sent." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1878088&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874279 ] Mass Subscriptions names
by SourceForge.net Jan. 22, 2008

Jan. 22, 2008

Bugs item #1874279, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:33 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Mass Subscriptions names Initial Comment: Today we look at members/add, Mass Subscriptions. Please change "Enter one address per line below..." to "Enter Bob Clodsworth <blob(a)example.com> or just blob(a)example.com, one per line:" Else no one can guess how to get names in. P.S., with site language = English, don't dream of entering and UTF-8 or &# 31309 ; stuff. You'll get an error. ASCII is assumed, dangnabit! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 04:36 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Holy moly, on the Mass Subscriptions page, if you leave the notify administrator box checked, it _really does_ send one notification for EACH subscriber! Subscribe 50 people, and the administrator gets 50 EMAILs about it, not just one email with the results about all 50 names. Who knows what pleasure is in store on the mass delete page. You have my permission to split this off into a separate bug. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 04:29 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES By the way, on the mass subscription page, if one puts addresses both in the entry box, and in the contents of the file to be read in, one ends up with at least one garbled address... do warn or catch or say on the page that it's OK to use both, then process correctly. I did not test the mass deletions page. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 14:56 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And even with site language zh_TW, on the mass subscription results page one sees UTF-8 becomes: * 積丹尼 <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> though apparently internally it is still UTF-8 at evidenced on other pages. P.S., the zh_TW 'send me my passwd' email sends raw % mess: 我們歡迎任何問題或建議 ! 請 email 給 %(adminaddr)s. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874279 ] Mass Subscriptions names
by SourceForge.net Jan. 22, 2008

Jan. 22, 2008

Bugs item #1874279, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:33 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Mass Subscriptions names Initial Comment: Today we look at members/add, Mass Subscriptions. Please change "Enter one address per line below..." to "Enter Bob Clodsworth <blob(a)example.com> or just blob(a)example.com, one per line:" Else no one can guess how to get names in. P.S., with site language = English, don't dream of entering and UTF-8 or &# 31309 ; stuff. You'll get an error. ASCII is assumed, dangnabit! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 04:29 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES By the way, on the mass subscription page, if one puts addresses both in the entry box, and in the contents of the file to be read in, one ends up with at least one garbled address... do warn or catch or say on the page that it's OK to use both, then process correctly. I did not test the mass deletions page. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 14:56 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And even with site language zh_TW, on the mass subscription results page one sees UTF-8 becomes: * 積丹尼 <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> though apparently internally it is still UTF-8 at evidenced on other pages. P.S., the zh_TW 'send me my passwd' email sends raw % mess: 我們歡迎任何問題或建議 ! 請 email 給 %(adminaddr)s. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1866486 ] validate HTML and email produced
by SourceForge.net Jan. 22, 2008

Jan. 22, 2008

Bugs item #1866486, was opened at 2008-01-08 10:40 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1866486&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: validate HTML and email produced Initial Comment: In your test suite add for all languages for all HTML pages run them thru a HTML validator for all administrative email sent run them thru e.g., SpamAssassin, to detect SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING etc. embarrassment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 03:55 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And as you will find your HTML is jam packed with _very hard to maintain presentational blibber_, causing a billion validator errors, meaning it is just by shear luck that people hopefully see what your thought maybe they might see in their browsers at all, therefore I recommend you forget your FrontPage Express style tag soup mess, and try HTML Strict (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd). Never mind all those colors and tables. Get in the habit of thinking from the point of all users: _accessibility_. Here's an example of how I repaired your disastrous listinfo.html. I couldn't use strict.dtd as the stuff I include of yours isn't strict. Also you insist on sticking a TABLE inside an ADDRESS, in mm-mailman-footer, so short of just hardcoding the whole thing, it will never be valid HTML. Anyway I'm just telling you, not volunteering to help, but just telling you, that aren't these <H1> and <H2>'s easier to maintain than that TABLE tag barf that you contracted Plotzworth Whoopie Pages Web Designers for? P.S., Before making one more release, make sure what you release is valid HTML. Does Wikipedia pass the validator? Yes. It is quite bananas to just emit TAG JUMBLE GAMBLE HTML with FINGER CROSSED to people's browsers. Anyway, just some <h2>'s and <p>'s: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"> <html lang="zh-tw"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content= "text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="zh-tw"> <title><mm-list-name> 相關資訊</title> </head> <body> <h1><mm-list-name> -- <mm-list-description></h1> <P>關於<mm-list-name>論壇</P> <mm-subscribe-form-start><mm-form-end> <p><mm-list-info></p> <p>欲查本論壇舊信，請逕洽 <mm-archive><mm-list-name>檔案保管處</MM-Archive>。 <mm-restricted-list-message></p> <h2>使用<mm-list-name></h2> <P>欲在論壇發言，請寄到 <a href="mailto:<MM-Posting-Addr>"><mm-posting-addr></a>。 <h2>加入<mm-list-name>論壇</h2> <P>請於聚會現場報名。  <h2><mm-list-name>訂閱者</h2> <P><mm-options-form-start><mm-editing-options><mm-form-end> <mm-mailman-footer> </body> </html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1866486&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 20, 2008

Jan. 20, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-10 16:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jimpop You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-20 00:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO > No. There should just be a choice on the administrator panel, In a perfect world, yes. However, it's a pretty minor issue, that *does* have a work around. BTW, your use of "deceptive" in the Subject is just a poor choice of wording, and probably seen as an insult by Mailman developers. I understand your emotion, but I don't understand your expectations. Best wishes, -Jim P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 23:22 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES > Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? No. There should just be a choice on the administrator panel, Be honest about things []Yes [X]No. (Actually a group of choices, one for each thing.) [X]No by default, for security. That would cover 99% of the cases, keep people from mucking with the HTML, and make them conscious of the deception. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-19 20:05 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 15:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 20, 2008

Jan. 20, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-11 05:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-20 12:22 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES > Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? No. There should just be a choice on the administrator panel, Be honest about things []Yes [X]No. (Actually a group of choices, one for each thing.) [X]No by default, for security. That would cover 99% of the cases, keep people from mucking with the HTML, and make them conscious of the deception. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-20 09:05 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-18 04:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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