Mailman 3 October 2008 - Python-ideas

Recognise __init__.so
by Greg Ewing Oct. 31, 2008

Oct. 31, 2008

We've just been having a discussion on the Cython list about implementing the __init__ file of a package as an extension module. It turns out that just putting an __init__.so file in a directory isn't enough to make Python recognise it as a package. However, if there is both an __init__.py and an __init__.so, it's recognised as a package, and the __init__.so gets loaded. So it's possible, but only by exploiting some undocumented and probably accidental behaviour. So how about officially recognising an __init__.so file as a package main file? -- Greg

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Idea: Lazy import statement
by Greg Ewing Oct. 23, 2008

Oct. 23, 2008

Problem: You have a package containing a large number of classes, of which only a few are typically used by any given application. If you put each class into its own submodule, then client code is required to use a lot of tedious 'from foo.thingy import Thingy' statements to import the classes it wants to use. This also makes all the submodule names part of the API and makes it hard to rearrange the packaging without breaking code. If you try to flatten the namespace by importing all the classes into the top level module, you end up importing everything even if it won't be used. What's needed is a way of lazily importing them, so that the import won't actually happen unless the imported names are referenced. It's possible to hack something like that up now, but then tools such as py2app and py2exe, that try to find modules by statically examining the source looking for import statements, won't be able to accurately determine which modules are used. At best they'll think the whole package is used and incorporate all of it; at worst they'll miss it altogether. So I think it would be good to have a dedicated syntax for lazy imports, so the top-level foo package can say something like from foo.thing lazily import Thing from foo.stuff lazily import Stuff ... Executing a lazy import statement adds an entry to a list of deferred imports attached to the module. Then, the first time the imported name is referenced, the import is performed and the name becomes an ordinary attribute thereafter. If py2exe et al are taught about lazy imports, they will then be able to determine exactly which submodules are used by an application and exclude the rest. -- Greg

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Is this the right forum for a proposed new stdlib function?
by Joe Strout Oct. 22, 2008

Oct. 22, 2008

I'd like to float the idea of an addition of a new function to the Template class (in the string module). I'm a bit of a newbie around here, though, and uncertain of the proper procedure. Is this the right mailing list for that, or should I be using python-list instead? Thanks, - Joe

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Optimistic Concurrency
by skip＠pobox.com Oct. 21, 2008

Oct. 21, 2008

Is optimistic concurrency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimistic_concurrency_control a possible option for removing the GIL in Python? Skip

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Python's core needs to be more lightweight
by Victor Martin Ulloa Oct. 20, 2008

Oct. 20, 2008

I noticed a minimalistic pytoncore compiled with VS2005 ( eliminating COMDAT and un-used references, optimized for size ) passes the 2Mb of .LIB ( statically linked ). I think that's a lot considering that LUA uses less than 100Kb. For small game consoles and devices very small RAM and storage would be very good to reduce this size. thx __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es

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Re: [Python-ideas] VS2005 project improvement
by Victor Martin Ulloa Oct. 19, 2008

Oct. 19, 2008

I see this code in the python3.0rc1 makebuild_info project for VS2005: int main(int argc, char*argv[]) { char command[500] = "cl.exe -c -D_WIN32 -DUSE_DL_EXPORT -D_WINDOWS -DWIN32 -D_WINDLL "; int do_unlink, result; if (argc != 2) { fprintf(stderr, "make_buildinfo $(ConfigurationName)\n"); return EXIT_FAILURE; } if (strcmp(argv[1], "Release") == 0) { strcat_s(command, CMD_SIZE, "-MD "); } else if (strcmp(argv[1], "Debug") == 0) { strcat_s(command, CMD_SIZE, "-D_DEBUG -MDd "); } else if (strcmp(argv[1], "ReleaseItanium") == 0) { strcat_s(command, CMD_SIZE, "-MD /USECL:MS_ITANIUM "); } else if (strcmp(argv[1], "ReleaseAMD64") == 0) { strcat_s(command, CMD_SIZE, "-MD "); strcat_s(command, CMD_SIZE, "-MD /USECL:MS_OPTERON "); } else { fprintf(stderr, "unsupported configuration %s\n", argv[1]); return EXIT_FAILURE; } I don't think to hardcode the configurations would be a good idea. I went crazy trying to setup a static library(or a custom configuration) and it was difficult to figure things like that... pls fix it, that's not the good way. __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es

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User forums
by Victor Martin Ulloa Oct. 18, 2008

Oct. 18, 2008

Why are we using a 90's mailing list? Why not a modern phpBB web forum? __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es

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Re: [Python-ideas] VS2005 project improvement
by Victor Martin Ulloa Oct. 17, 2008

Oct. 17, 2008

>I see project files for VS6, VC7.1 and VS8 in the directory >http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/PC/ :) But the Solution files(.SLN) in the PC folder are just for VS2008. __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es

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Re: [Python-ideas] VS2005 project improvement
by Victor Martin Ulloa Oct. 17, 2008

Oct. 17, 2008

And btw, to build static libraries is a nightmare :P You must add Debug_Static and Relese_Static configurations too. __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es

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Automatic total ordering
by George Sakkis Oct. 17, 2008

Oct. 17, 2008

Now that 3.x fixes the arbitrary object comparison wart and drops (?) __cmp__, it seems it's a good time to do something with the missing rich comparators gotcha, e.g. given a class that defines __eq__ and __lt__, automatically provide the rest missing comparisons. Yes, it can be done with a custom metaclass or (in 2.6+) with a class decorator [1] but (a) 99% of the time that's what one expects so "explicit is better than implicit" doesn't count and (b) a bulitin implementation might well be more efficient. There might be arguments why this would be a bad idea but I really can't think of any. George [1] http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/arch_d7_2008_10_04.shtml

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