Mailman 3 August 2004 - Twisted

[Twisted-Python] os.walk - like example
by VanL 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Hello, I am trying to use twisted to produce an os.walk -like traversal of a remote ftp site, but I am just not getting my head around it. Simple things I have figured out, like def listdir(self, result, fileListProtocol): return fileListProtocol.files def isdir(self, ftpfile): return ftpfile['filetype'] == 'd' def islink(self, ftpfile): return ftpfile.has_key('linktarget') Similarly, I see the commands that I need to use. I just can't seem to get it all together into a package that can do a walk of the remote directory. Can anyone help? Thanks, VanL

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[Twisted-Python] internet.TCPServer interface
by Tsai Li Ming 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Hi, How do I bind the port number to a specific interface? application = service.Application('Core') sc = service.IServiceCollection(application) internet.TCPServer('7001', myFactory()).setServiceParent(sc) Liming

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[Twisted-Python] 111: Connection refused
by Damon Fasching 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Hi, I am attempting to use pb to distribute a home grown database. To test, I have the database split over two machines and am using a third machine for a client test application. The two database machines are Redhat; the client machine is Debian, for what it's worth. I thought the Redhat machines were identically configured, but when I connect to them, one of them works fine and the other gives the msg "111: Connection refused" As a simple test, I just ran a simple echo server on each machine and an echo client on the third machine. The Redhat machine which worked as a database server also works as an echo server. The other machine fails with the same msg. I am able to ping, scp, etc to my hearts content among the three machines. I have looked at the twisted FAQ, mail archives and much of what looks relevant under /etc on the Redhat machines w/o much luck. This is not a twisted problem, but can someone give me a clue as to what system config file I might need to modify and how? Thanks! Damon

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[Twisted-Python] To thread or not to thread
by Ken Whitesell 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Britt, >I've been reading some of the online documentation for Twisted, and >I'm slowly starting to grasp different things. However, I could use >some help with one point. Suppose I was coding up a chat server, or >perhaps a MUD. Would I need to use something threaded, as opposed >to just using reactor.run()? Or would the latter be sufficient? No need to thread! The foundation of a chat server is in the book.pdf file (and therefore in one of the howtos) starting back around pg 227. Ken

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[Twisted-Python] Twisted Split FAQ
by Christopher Armstrong 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

For those of you who have been popping into IRC and mailing me privately asking "What's up with this Twisted split I'm hearing about?", I wrote a FAQ: http://twistedmatrix.com/products/splitfaq -- Twisted | Christopher Armstrong: International Man of Twistery Radix | Release Manager, Twisted Project ---------+ http://radix.twistedmatrix.com

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted O'Reilly Book
by Sergio Trejo 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Tim, Thanks for some well thought ideas and comments. I'm vocal and I'm interested. And my gloves on the keyboard are busy such that my brain can grok as much of Twisted as possible. If only I could just plug into the Matrix and grok it all in one fell swoop! :-) I'm learning atop lately, and then its on to nevow. Maybe there's a nevow expert in the crowd (Mary Gardiner, aren't you a Nevow maestro?) who is willing to collaborate such that we can get the Twisted Foundation into motion along the lines of what Tim has suggested? Tim, would you be up for helping out in some form or another? Hey, I bet we could get some ideas and suggestions from Mitch Kapor's group since they are going to be using Twisted and would probably like to see its Declaration of Independence. Or maybe someone from Mozilla or Apache can give us some ideas of what to do and what not to do since they've been through the trials and tribulations of Foundation genesis. Oh yes, and another thought -- what about the company Zoteca in New York City? Surely they would be interested in a Twisted Foundation, no? One of the great things about having a Foundation is that it doesn't have to keep secrets. It is truly open and there are no hidden cards in the deck. At the same time, anyone is free to birth artificial persons in any territory on Earth who then can utilize the Foundation but also contribute back to it. This is why Twisted needs a Declaration of Independence IMHO. I see no reason why *not* to create a Twisted Foundation for the benefit of humankind. Imagine, a kid in Africa who has access to the 'Net who is learning computer science could participate in the Twisted Foundation and contribute something really cool, such as a new protocol, to the code base. Or some child in Thailand could use Twisted's Perspective Broker and Nevow to create some really neat 'net-based agriculture Web service for the farmers and hill tribe people in northeast agricultural Thailand (where Internet cafes continue to sprout up). And of course really cool apps and services could be created by the whiz gurus in the more modernized countries at the same time. A Foundation is a self serving entity whose goal is to survive independent of any others who make use of it. A Foundation owes nothing to no one, and can not be held hostage by anyone. Foundations are good for humanity. Foundations have need not retain secrets. Foundations do not impose detriment on others. I can't imagine a world without Apache (yikes, we'd all be forced to using Microsoft's IIS Web Server). Any further comments, ideas, brainstorms, suggestions? Serg >From: Tim Stebbing <tim.stebbing(a)nunatak.com.au> >Reply-To: Twisted general discussion <twisted-python(a)twistedmatrix.com> >To: Twisted general discussion <twisted-python(a)twistedmatrix.com> >Subject: Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted O'Reilly Book >Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:29:19 +1000 > >A Foundation is just that, a -foundation-, for building ontop of. Look at >the Mozilla foundation; they provide a base framework, and support a >multitude of applications built with it. Look at the apache foundation, >they are an edge case, but there we see a group of apps that are built >loosly around a theme, the apache web services. > >I guess the point I'm trying to make is that a Twisted foundation would >need the capacity to support this sort of community of related projects, >with the twisted framework as the basic premise for all projects. > >I personally think its a great idea, I have stuff I'd love to contribute >once finished, which do not make sense in terms of being added to the >twisted framework, in the same way divmod produce associated software, Im >sure alot of you do too. > >However I can't see any form of foundation framework (web based) or people >to manage it just appearing as if by magic, as Glyph said noone has the >time anymore. > >I think what is being asked for are bounties? If you have something you >would like to see implemented, rather than donate to a slush fund, offer a >bounty to the first person to deliver. Perhaps there could be a bounty >board? ie: > >who | what? | how much? >----+--------------------------------------------+------------- >tjs | I'd like to see xml-rpc basic auth support | $300 USD * > >There is nothing stopping bounty and foundation ideas from going ahead, >other than time and energy. > >I imagine that reading this email, and the ones prior, there will be about >50+ people nodding their heads in agreement, and then thinking "It would be >great, but I'm not going to take the time to set that all up, I'm to busy" > >I also imagine, if someone was to take the time to think this through, >write up some nevow frontend for a twisted foundation and get it all going, >noone would object to having it hosted under the twisted banner. > >so to those of you most vocal on this topic, I suggest you stop >pontificating and get your hacking gloves on :) > >-tjs > >* This is not an offer ;) > >-- >(o_ Timothy Stebbing, Pythonista, Nunatak Systems >//\ 03 6226 6259, tim.stebbing(a)nunatak.com.au >V_/_ ><>--------------------------------------<>< > >_______________________________________________ >Twisted-Python mailing list >Twisted-Python(a)twistedmatrix.com >http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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RE: [Twisted-Python] the Foundation Litmus Test
by Sergio Trejo 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Thank you Glyph for your time authoring this email which was quite professional, eloquent, and well reasoned. I may have been over zealous and got a little hyper, but I certainly didn't intend to offend anyone. Perhaps another year should pass and then the community can raise the question again. Cheers, Serg P.S. (But let us not forget about the book ;-) >From: Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph(a)divmod.com> >Reply-To: Twisted general discussion <twisted-python(a)twistedmatrix.com> >To: Twisted general discussion <twisted-python(a)twistedmatrix.com> >Subject: [Twisted-Python] the Foundation Litmus Test >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 02:49:14 -0400 > >On Aug 3, 2004, at 10:50 AM, Tim Stebbing wrote: > >>My last email was possibly taken out of context, I was suggesting that I >>didn't oppose you going off and doing these things, some of which I didn't >>think where bad ideas, but you cant expect any help for free, Noone else >>is interested, or seems to see a need. > >This is almost, but not entirely how I feel about the issue. > >I do see a need for the Twisted foundation. I am the progenitor of the >project, but I am not the principal author any more. I can barely keep up >with the fantastic team, and larger community, that has grown up around the >project. To my great relief, I receive very few personal messages about >the framework, which must mean that the world at large (correctly) >identifies the community at large with the maintenance of the project and >not me personally. > >I have no interest in holding a large body of other peoples' work hostage, >either on purpose or by accident. I want the Twisted community to flourish >and for the framework to become a standard in the software development >industry. After all, I wrote Twisted in the first place as just _one_ >layer of infrastructure for a multi-decade-long project; the whole point is >to offload the maintenance so that I can work my way up the tiers of >abstraction to the singularity lurking just around the bend. > >However, a foundation is a lot of work, and a lot of that work falls >necessarily upon me as both the original author and principal copyright >holder. You can think of this overhead as a litmus test. > >I promise you this: I am never going to take the first step to start a >foundation. I have lots of other things to do; even if I weren't >monumentally busy with work, I have a beautiful woman who lives with me >that I see far too little of. I have thousands of hobby projects I could >be working on. I have lots of friends who could use my volunteer >assistance, both on their companies and on their charitable projects. > >I also have about ten years of sleep to catch up on. > >So, if I am going to spend time on the Twisted project, I am going to do >what I do best, which is to implement the huge laundry list of features >that remain. I am not going to file legal paperwork to fill some >ambiguous, long-term goals that are never going to be personally important >to me. > >So here is the litmus test - a challenge, if you like - for the maturity of >the Twisted community. If you are interested in a Twisted foundation to >hold the copyrights, finance development, accept donations, etc., take >responsibility for organizing a group to do this, and come to me with a >proposal. Be organized enough so that I don't have to do a lot of the >work, and be prepared to compensate my company for the time that I do have >to spend. Normally I don't do consulting, but I will persuade my >co-workers and management to give me the time to do this, since I do think >it is a worthy cause, if at least the proto-foundation will cover the >nominal costs. > >Until a sufficiently large group of people in the community and in funded >organizations (for- or non-profit) see a real need for such a foundation, I >don't think that the community is mature enough to get any benefit from >one. Furthermore I think that the organizational overhead that a >foundation would impose would actually be a *detriment* to the community >until the community itself is sufficiently organized to be able to muster >the infrastructure which surrounds a successful foundation. > >Such infrastructure includes both organized, knowledgeable, self-motivated >volunteers who are aware of the legal and technical requirements to get >started, and enough money to keep the foundation alive and functioning for >a good long while. A dead foundation holding the copyrights is almost as >bad as a dead corporation. > >Such an organization would find the initial expenditure for my services >(and those of the other principal Twisted contributors, which I'm sure >you'll need for one reason or another) to be a pittance. > >Good luck on organizing one, but I don't think the community is quite there >yet - I would estimate one more year before we reach critical mass. If we >make it by then, keep in mind that four years is doing VERY VERY well. >Most projects which don't immediately as foundations don't reach this point >for about ten years. ><< PGP.sig >> >_______________________________________________ >Twisted-Python mailing list >Twisted-Python(a)twistedmatrix.com >http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted O'Reilly Book
by Sergio Trejo 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

>>Oh yes, and another thought -- what about the company Zoteca in New York >>City? Surely they would be interested in a Twisted Foundation, no? >> > >Mate, are you any of these people? are you Mary? or Tim? or a member of the >Apache or Mozilla Foundations? are you Perhaps Mitch Kapor, or Zoteca, >whoever they are? As for Zoteca, you may have heard of one of the awesome geniuses who has contributed significantly to Twisted (along with all of the others who have made contributions, whom I feel IMHO are all geniuses): --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.zoteca.com/company/management.htm Itamar Shtull-Trauring - Chief Technology Architect Itamar has worked professionally in software technology development since 1994. He studied computer science and mathematics at Tel Aviv University and is the author of several patents. He most recently served as the chief programmer at an Internet startup. Itamar is actively involved in several open-source development projects. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not any of the people I referred to. I'm just brainstorming out loud becuase I've just recently discovered Twisted and I think its the greatest thing since sliced bread and so I have a lot of enthusiasm which I do not think I am misplacing. If I have inadvertently offended anyone, well it certainly was not intentional. And please note that when I asked if you would be interested in helping, I never said or implied that I personally or the Foundation would be asking you for money or something for "free." I don't understand how you misinterpreted me but I'm sorry that you did. I'm certainly by no means looking for a handout. >You can't publically suggest our involvement in your dream, its just not >very polite, to say the least. Or do you think to excite us into action? What is so impolite about asking for your suggestions or feedback or input or whatever? By the way, who is "our" in the verbatim "our involvement"? I was asking you, but I don't know how you went from "me, Tim" to "our" whomever "our" is. Your reaction strikes me as defensive and I don't know why. Anyway, a Foundation isn't about my dream. A Foundation would only work if there's enough interest to form one by a group of people in the community. If the community is not interested in a Foundation, then I surely won't waste my time. >My last email was possibly taken out of context, I was suggesting that I >didn't oppose you going off and doing these things, some of which I didn't >think where bad ideas, but you cant expect any help for free, Noone else is >interested, or seems to see a need. No worries. If no one is interested then indeed its all moot. >>One of the great things about having a Foundation is that it doesn't have >>to keep secrets. It is truly open and there are no hidden cards in the >>deck. At the same time, anyone is free to birth artificial persons in any >>territory on Earth who then can utilize the Foundation but also contribute >>back to it. This is why Twisted needs a Declaration of Independence IMHO. >>I see no reason why *not* to create a Twisted Foundation for the benefit >>of humankind. >> >>Imagine, a kid in Africa who has access to the 'Net who is learning >>computer science could participate in the Twisted Foundation and >>contribute something really cool, such as a new protocol, to the code >>base. Or some child in Thailand could use Twisted's Perspective Broker and >>Nevow to create some really neat 'net-based agriculture Web service for >>the farmers and hill tribe people in northeast agricultural Thailand >>(where Internet cafes continue to sprout up). And of course really cool >>apps and services could be created by the whiz gurus in the more >>modernized countries at the same time. >> >>A Foundation is a self serving entity whose goal is to survive independent >>of any others who make use of it. A Foundation owes nothing to no one, and >>can not be held hostage by anyone. Foundations are good for humanity. >>Foundations have need not retain secrets. Foundations do not impose >>detriment on others. I can't imagine a world without Apache (yikes, we'd >>all be forced to using Microsoft's IIS Web Server). >> > >I seriously think you have missed the point. Nothing procludes anyones >involvment in twisted, its LGPL, and the core developers, let alone the >ancilliary ones are from all walks of life/regions of the globe. > >>Any further comments, ideas, brainstorms, suggestions? >> >Idea: >Chill out. Idea published, but not accepted. > >Brainstorm: >I think you're insulting people with your lack of understanding, and blind >ranting. If others find me insulting, then let them speak up and if so then I'll shut up. If no one wants a Foundation then that's fine. If no one wants a book then that's cool, too. "Blind ranting" is not equal to posting some positive energy and throwing out the idea of a book and a Foundation. Why such a harsh come back from you? I don't understand your reaction. Its the harshest of anyone here who has posted in this thread. What is it that I lack understanding about? True, I am quite new and don't know a lot about the community, but is there anything wrong with being really excited about Twisted which I happen to think is really awesome, stellar and well done? Does not the community as it exists today want to grow and become larger in its expanse and have new people with new ideas coming into it to thus continue to evolve Twisted and make it known to more and more of the world? Or is the community going to chastise new entries such as me who may be green but who believe in Twisted and do find it to be "Networking For the Rest of Us"? >Suggestion: >Get to know the community and the project before making wild assumptions. >People will take your suggestions more seriously when your credible. Please list to me what my assumptions are and what is wild about them. Thanks for the further feedback. If you will kindly note that I got excited about the idea of a Twisted book as a *reaction* to the following post by Glyph to his blog (is this a wild assumption?): ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.livejournal.com/users/glyf/22053.html I spoke to Alex Martelli, author of Python in a Nutshell and editor of the Python Cookbook. He reminded me that the world does, in fact, need a Twisted book, a reminder for which I am very grateful. I think that as a result of this conversation a moribund book project may be restarted, and another might come into the works. Time will tell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anybody who is the author of two O'Reilly Python books sounds pretty darned "credible" to me, so Alex Martelli's ideas which inspired Glyph sounded enthusiastic to me, so that's how this thread got going in the first place, and then the idea of a Foundation sprouted. Cheers Mate, Serg > > > >-- >(o_ Timothy Stebbing, Pythonista, Nunatak Systems >//\ 03 6226 6259, tim.stebbing(a)nunatak.com.au >V_/_ ><>--------------------------------------<>< > > > >_______________________________________________ >Twisted-Python mailing list >Twisted-Python(a)twistedmatrix.com >http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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[Twisted-Python] To thread or not to thread...
by Britt Green 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

I've been reading some of the online documentation for Twisted, and I'm slowly starting to grasp different things. However, I could use some help with one point. Suppose I was coding up a chat server, or perhaps a MUD. Would I need to use something threaded, as opposed to just using reactor.run()? Or would the latter be sufficient? Thanks! Britt

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted O'Reilly Book
by Sergio Trejo 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

>From: Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph(a)divmod.com> >Reply-To: Twisted general discussion <twisted-python(a)twistedmatrix.com> >To: Twisted general discussion <twisted-python(a)twistedmatrix.com> >Subject: Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted O'Reilly Book >Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:17:11 -0400 > > >On Aug 2, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Sergio Trejo wrote: > >>Well, perhaps Divmod and OSAF and other commercial entities could together >>start a Twisted Foundation? > >Divmod is a for-profit company. OSAF is a charity already. They're not >both commercial entities. OSAF is a not-for-profit artificial person born in the U.S. sovereign territory as a 501c(3). However, let there by no illusion, as money will be streamed by other artificial persons (perhaps created by Kapor and/or colleagues and/or anyone and their mother who cares to for that matter) whom will make use of the produce birthed under the auspices of OSAF, very specifically: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.osafoundation.org/OSAF_history.htm Why a non-profit? Mitch, the successful entrepreneur and venture capitalist, had not all of a sudden ceased to believe in the virtues of capitalism. Rather, he wanted to make a clear statement: the intent of this effort was not to use this as a vehicle to make more money for himself. However, he would be very happy for others to make money and intended to find a licensing scheme which would permit both non-commercial and commercial development on the code base. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thus, the foundations of Divmod and OSAF may be different, but capitalism prevails in both scenarios even though each artificial person is not a Foundation entity. >Divmod is already contributing hugely to Twisted's development by keeping >everyone who works on it employed in a related role. It is truly a great thing that Divmod's employees have continued to improve Twisted on the Divmod clock. But isn't that part of the deal of the LGPL? And what about others who are not in the tight circles of the Divmod LLC? Is Radix an employee of Divmod? Didn't his blog state today that he's moving to Australia soon? Is Radix not a significant contributor to Twisted? What about the venerable Bob Ippolito? Who else has contributed significantly to Twisted who is not a Divmod employee? >Pretty much all the IMAP support in Twisted was written on-the-clock for >Divmod. That would be Jp? > >>Let us not forget that the core element that we all want to share in is >>Twisted. > >I'm not sure who "we" are here, or what "core" means :) Class TwistedGlobalCommunity(HumansInAllTerritoriesOnEarthNotJustAmerica): def __init__(self): self.we = "The Twisted Community" self.core = "from twisted import *" :-) > >>As an example, Divmod might be a separate company with separate employees > >Separate from whom? Ummm, isn't it possible for Foundations as parent artificial persons to fill slots in the form of employment of humans? I coudl be wrong, but doesn't Mozilla and Apache Foundations employee people? > >>(and perhaps Divmod makes its money from consulting -- I don't know, I'm >>just guessing), > >This would be just about my worst nightmare :). Divmod makes its money by >providing a service directly to consumers, as described at >http://www.divmod.com. Cool. There would be zero conflict of interest between Divmod and a Twisted Foundation. > >>but then there's also Mitch Kapor's group (OSAF) using Twisted Chandler. >>And there are others who want to share Twisted, so it is in everybody's >>best interest to keep improving Twisted. > >We're already doing that now. What would a Twisted foundation offer that's >better than the current situation? A Declaration of Independence. The Apache Foundation does not prevent other companies that contribute to the Apache Foundation from making money and having a comfortable living. I don't see why a Twisted Foundation would be any different, if done correctly. >There is a significant cost to set up a foundation in the first place, >remember. How much dinero to python setup.py TwistedFoundation install? _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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