Mailman 3 June 2014 - Python-Dev

Division of tool labour in porting Python 2 code to 2/3
by Brett Cannon 07 Jun '14

07 Jun '14

After Glyph and Alex's email about their asks for assisting in writing Python 2/3 code, it got me thinking about where in the toolchain various warnings and such should go in order to help direct energy to help develop whatever future toolchain to assist in porting. There seems to be three places where issues are/can be caught once a project has embarked down the road of 2/3 source compatibility: 1. -3 warnings 2. Some linter tool 3. Failing tests -3 warnings are things that we know are flat-out wrong and do not cause massive compatibility issues in the stdlib. For instance, warning that buffer() is not in Python 3 is a py3k warning -- Glyph made a mistake when he asked for it as a new warning -- is a perfect example of something that isn't excessively noisy and won't cause issues when people run with it. But what about warning about classic classes? The stdlib is full of them and they were purposefully left alone for compatibility reasons. But there is a subtle semantic difference between classic and new-style classes, and so 2/3 code should consider switching (this is when people chime in saying "this is why we want a 2.8 release!", but that still isn't happening). If this were made a py3k warning in 2.7 then the stdlib itself would spew out warnings which we can't change due to compatibility, so that makes it not useful (http://bugs.python.org/issue21231). But as part of a lint tool specific to Python 2.7 that kind of warning would not be an issue and is easily managed and integrated into CI setups to make sure there are no regressions. Lastly, there are things like string/unicode comparisons. http://bugs.python.org/issue21401 has a patch from VIctor which warns when comparing strings and unicode in Python 2.7. Much like the classic classes example, the stdlib becomes rather noisy due to APIs that handle either/or, etc. But unlike the classic classes example, you just can't systematically verify that two variables are always going to be str vs. unicode in Python 2.7 if they aren't literals. If people want to implement type constraint graphs for 2.7 code to help find them then that's great, but I personally don't have that kind of time. In this instance it would seem like relying on a project's unit tests to find this sort of problem is the best option. With those three levels in mind, where do we draw the line between these levels? Take for instance the print statement. Right now there is no warning with -3. Do we add one and then update the 2.7 stdlib to prevent warnings being generated by the stdlib? Or do we add it to some linter tool to pick up when people accidentally leave one in their code? The reason I ask is since this is clear I'm willing to spearhead the tooling work we talked about at the language summit to make sure there's a clear path for people wanting to port which is as easy as (reasonably) possible, but I don't want to start on it until I have a clear indication of what people are going to be okay with.

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Internal representation of strings and Micropython
by Steven D'Aprano 06 Jun '14

06 Jun '14

There is a discussion over at MicroPython about the internal representation of Unicode strings. Micropython is aimed at embedded devices, and so minimizing memory use is important, possibly even more important than performance. (I'm not speaking on their behalf, just commenting as an interested outsider.) At the moment, their Unicode support is patchy. They are talking about either: * Having a build-time option to restrict all strings to ASCII-only. (I think what they mean by that is that strings will be like Python 2 strings, ASCII-plus-arbitrary-bytes, not actually ASCII.) * Implementing Unicode internally as UTF-8, and giving up O(1) indexing operations. https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/657 Would either of these trade-offs be acceptable while still claiming "Python 3.4 compatibility"? My own feeling is that O(1) string indexing operations are a quality of implementation issue, not a deal breaker to call it a Python. I can't see any requirement in the docs that str[n] must take O(1) time, but perhaps I have missed something. -- Steven

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asyncio/Tulip: use CPython as the new upstream
by Victor Stinner 06 Jun '14

06 Jun '14

Hi, I added a new BaseEventLoop.is_closed() method to Tulip and Python 3.5 to fix an issue (see Tulip issue 169 for the detail). The problem is that I don't want to add this method to Python 3.4 because usually we don't add new methods in minor versions of Python (future version 3.4.2 in this case). Guido just wrote in the issue: "Actually for asyncio we have special dispensation to push new features to minor releases (until 3.5). Please push to 3.4 so the source code is the same everywhere (except selectors.py, which is not covered by the exception)." I disagree with Guido. I would prefer to start to maintain a different branch for Python 3.4, because I consider that only bugfixes should be applied to Python 3.4. It's not the first change that cannot be applied on Python 3.4 (only in Tulip and Python 3.5): the selectors module now also supports devpoll on Solaris. It's annoying because the Tulip script "update_stdlib.sh" used to synchronize Tulip and Python wants to replace Lib/selectors.py in Python 3.4. I have to revert the change each time. I propose a new workflow: use Python default (future version 3.5) as the new asyncio "upstream". Bugfixes would be applied as other Python bugfixes: first in Python 3.4, than in Python 3.5. The "update_stdlib.sh" script of Tulip should be modified to copy files from Python default to Tulip (opposite of the current direction). Workflow: New feature: Python 3.5 => Tulip => Trollius Bugfix: Python 3.4 => Python 3.5 => Tulip => Trollius I don't think that Tulip should have minor release just for bugfixes, it would be a pain to maintain. Tulip is a third party module, it doesn't have the same constraints than Python stdlib. What do you think? Victor

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Summary of Python tracker Issues
by Python tracker 06 Jun '14

06 Jun '14

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2014-05-30 - 2014-06-06) Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue. Do NOT respond to this message. Issues counts and deltas: open 4650 (+15) closed 28802 (+52) total 33452 (+67) Open issues with patches: 2127 Issues opened (48) ================== #21614: Case sensitivity problem in multiprocessing. http://bugs.python.org/issue21614 opened by ColinPDavidson #21615: Curses bug report for Python 2.7 and Python 3.2 http://bugs.python.org/issue21615 opened by eclectic9509 #21616: argparse explodes with nargs='*' and a tuple metavar http://bugs.python.org/issue21616 opened by vvas #21617: importlib reload can fail with AttributeError if module remove http://bugs.python.org/issue21617 opened by ned.deily #21619: Cleaning up a subprocess with a broken pipe http://bugs.python.org/issue21619 opened by vadmium #21621: Add note to 3.x What's New re Idle changes in bugfix releases http://bugs.python.org/issue21621 opened by terry.reedy #21622: ctypes.util incorrectly fails for libraries without DT_SONAME http://bugs.python.org/issue21622 opened by Jeremy.Huntwork #21623: build ssl failed use vs2010 express http://bugs.python.org/issue21623 opened by Mo.Jia #21624: Idle: polish htests http://bugs.python.org/issue21624 opened by terry.reedy #21625: help()'s more-mode is frustrating http://bugs.python.org/issue21625 opened by nedbat #21626: Add options width and compact to pickle cli http://bugs.python.org/issue21626 opened by barcc #21627: Concurrently closing files and iterating over the open files d http://bugs.python.org/issue21627 opened by sstewartgallus #21629: clinic.py --converters fails http://bugs.python.org/issue21629 opened by serhiy.storchaka #21632: Idle: sychronize text files across versions as appropriate. http://bugs.python.org/issue21632 opened by terry.reedy #21633: Argparse does not propagate HelpFormatter class to subparsers http://bugs.python.org/issue21633 opened by Michael.Cohen #21635: difflib.SequenceMatcher stores matching blocks as tuples, not http://bugs.python.org/issue21635 opened by drevicko #21642: "_ if 1else _" does not compile http://bugs.python.org/issue21642 opened by Joshua.Landau #21644: Optimize bytearray(int) constructor to use calloc() http://bugs.python.org/issue21644 opened by haypo #21645: test_read_all_from_pipe_reader() of test_asyncio hangs on Free http://bugs.python.org/issue21645 opened by haypo #21646: Add tests for turtle.ScrolledCanvas http://bugs.python.org/issue21646 opened by ingrid #21647: Idle unittests: make gui, mock switching easier. http://bugs.python.org/issue21647 opened by terry.reedy #21648: urllib urlopener leaves open sockets for FTP connection http://bugs.python.org/issue21648 opened by Claudiu.Popa #21649: Mention "Recommendations for Secure Use of TLS and DTLS" http://bugs.python.org/issue21649 opened by pitrou #21650: add json.tool option to avoid alphabetic sort of fields http://bugs.python.org/issue21650 opened by Pavel.Kazlou #21652: Python 2.7.7 regression in mimetypes module on Windows http://bugs.python.org/issue21652 opened by foom #21655: Write Unit Test for Vec2 class in the Turtle Module http://bugs.python.org/issue21655 opened by Lita.Cho #21656: Create test coverage for TurtleScreenBase in Turtle http://bugs.python.org/issue21656 opened by Lita.Cho #21657: pip.get_installed_distributions() Does not return packages in http://bugs.python.org/issue21657 opened by Adam.Matan #21658: __m128, can't build 3.4.1 with intel 14.0.0 http://bugs.python.org/issue21658 opened by aom #21659: IDLE: One corner calltip case http://bugs.python.org/issue21659 opened by serhiy.storchaka #21660: Substitute @TOKENS@ from sysconfig variables, for python-confi http://bugs.python.org/issue21660 opened by haubi #21664: multiprocessing leaks temporary directories pymp-xxx http://bugs.python.org/issue21664 opened by yjhong #21665: 2.7.7 ttk widgets not themed http://bugs.python.org/issue21665 opened by les.bothwell #21666: Argparse exceptions should include which argument has a proble http://bugs.python.org/issue21666 opened by v+python #21667: Clarify status of O(1) indexing semantics of str objects http://bugs.python.org/issue21667 opened by ncoghlan #21668: The select and time modules uses libm functions without linkin http://bugs.python.org/issue21668 opened by fornwall #21669: Custom error messages when print & exec are used as statements http://bugs.python.org/issue21669 opened by ncoghlan #21670: Add repr to shelve.Shelf http://bugs.python.org/issue21670 opened by Claudiu.Popa #21671: CVE-2014-0224: OpenSSL upgrade to 1.0.1h on Windows required http://bugs.python.org/issue21671 opened by lambacck #21672: Python for Windows 2.7.7: Path Configuration File No Longer Wo http://bugs.python.org/issue21672 opened by jblairpdx #21673: Idle: hilite search terms in hits in Find in Files output wind http://bugs.python.org/issue21673 opened by terry.reedy #21674: Idle: Add 'find all' in current file http://bugs.python.org/issue21674 opened by terry.reedy #21675: Library - Introduction - paragraph 5 - wrong ordering http://bugs.python.org/issue21675 opened by AnthonyBartoli #21676: IDLE - Test Replace Dialog http://bugs.python.org/issue21676 opened by sahutd #21677: Exception context set to string by BufferedWriter.close() http://bugs.python.org/issue21677 opened by vadmium #21678: Add operation "plus" for dictionaries http://bugs.python.org/issue21678 opened by Pix #21679: Prevent extraneous fstat during open() http://bugs.python.org/issue21679 opened by bkabrda #21680: asyncio: document event loops http://bugs.python.org/issue21680 opened by haypo Most recent 15 issues with no replies (15) ========================================== #21680: asyncio: document event loops http://bugs.python.org/issue21680 #21679: Prevent extraneous fstat during open() http://bugs.python.org/issue21679 #21677: Exception context set to string by BufferedWriter.close() http://bugs.python.org/issue21677 #21676: IDLE - Test Replace Dialog http://bugs.python.org/issue21676 #21675: Library - Introduction - paragraph 5 - wrong ordering http://bugs.python.org/issue21675 #21674: Idle: Add 'find all' in current file http://bugs.python.org/issue21674 #21673: Idle: hilite search terms in hits in Find in Files output wind http://bugs.python.org/issue21673 #21670: Add repr to shelve.Shelf http://bugs.python.org/issue21670 #21666: Argparse exceptions should include which argument has a proble http://bugs.python.org/issue21666 #21660: Substitute @TOKENS@ from sysconfig variables, for python-confi http://bugs.python.org/issue21660 #21657: pip.get_installed_distributions() Does not return packages in http://bugs.python.org/issue21657 #21656: Create test coverage for TurtleScreenBase in Turtle http://bugs.python.org/issue21656 #21655: Write Unit Test for Vec2 class in the Turtle Module http://bugs.python.org/issue21655 #21652: Python 2.7.7 regression in mimetypes module on Windows http://bugs.python.org/issue21652 #21649: Mention "Recommendations for Secure Use of TLS and DTLS" http://bugs.python.org/issue21649 Most recent 15 issues waiting for review (15) ============================================= #21679: Prevent extraneous fstat during open() http://bugs.python.org/issue21679 #21676: IDLE - Test Replace Dialog http://bugs.python.org/issue21676 #21670: Add repr to shelve.Shelf http://bugs.python.org/issue21670 #21669: Custom error messages when print & exec are used as statements http://bugs.python.org/issue21669 #21668: The select and time modules uses libm functions without linkin http://bugs.python.org/issue21668 #21660: Substitute @TOKENS@ from sysconfig variables, for python-confi http://bugs.python.org/issue21660 #21650: add json.tool option to avoid alphabetic sort of fields http://bugs.python.org/issue21650 #21648: urllib urlopener leaves open sockets for FTP connection http://bugs.python.org/issue21648 #21627: Concurrently closing files and iterating over the open files d http://bugs.python.org/issue21627 #21626: Add options width and compact to pickle cli http://bugs.python.org/issue21626 #21610: load_module not closing opened files http://bugs.python.org/issue21610 #21600: mock.patch.stopall doesn't work with patch.dict to sys.modules http://bugs.python.org/issue21600 #21599: Argument transport in attach and detach method in Server class http://bugs.python.org/issue21599 #21596: asyncio.wait fails when futures list is empty http://bugs.python.org/issue21596 #21595: asyncio: Creating many subprocess generates lots of internal B http://bugs.python.org/issue21595 Top 10 most discussed issues (10) ================================= #21667: Clarify status of O(1) indexing semantics of str objects http://bugs.python.org/issue21667 15 msgs #21427: installer not working http://bugs.python.org/issue21427 12 msgs #21476: Inconsitent behaviour between BytesParser.parse and Parser.par http://bugs.python.org/issue21476 11 msgs #21592: Make statistics.median run in linear time http://bugs.python.org/issue21592 11 msgs #21573: Clean up turtle.py code formatting http://bugs.python.org/issue21573 9 msgs #21623: build ssl failed use vs2010 express http://bugs.python.org/issue21623 9 msgs #15590: --libs is inconsistent for python-config --libs and pkgconfig http://bugs.python.org/issue15590 8 msgs #21665: 2.7.7 ttk widgets not themed http://bugs.python.org/issue21665 8 msgs #10740: sqlite3 module breaks transactions and potentially corrupts da http://bugs.python.org/issue10740 7 msgs #21671: CVE-2014-0224: OpenSSL upgrade to 1.0.1h on Windows required http://bugs.python.org/issue21671 7 msgs Issues closed (51) ================== #6181: Tkinter.Listbox several minor issues http://bugs.python.org/issue6181 closed by serhiy.storchaka #11387: Tkinter, callback functions http://bugs.python.org/issue11387 closed by terry.reedy #13630: IDLE: Find(ed) text is not highlighted while dialog box is ope http://bugs.python.org/issue13630 closed by terry.reedy #17095: Modules/Setup *shared* support broken http://bugs.python.org/issue17095 closed by ned.deily #18292: Idle: test AutoExpand.py http://bugs.python.org/issue18292 closed by terry.reedy #18409: Idle: test AutoComplete.py http://bugs.python.org/issue18409 closed by terry.reedy #18492: Allow all resources if not running under regrtest.py http://bugs.python.org/issue18492 closed by zach.ware #18910: IDle: test textView.py http://bugs.python.org/issue18910 closed by terry.reedy #19656: Add Py3k warning for non-ascii bytes literals http://bugs.python.org/issue19656 closed by serhiy.storchaka #20336: test_asyncio: relax timings even more http://bugs.python.org/issue20336 closed by skrah #20383: Add a keyword-only spec argument to types.ModuleType http://bugs.python.org/issue20383 closed by brett.cannon #20475: pystone.py in 3.4 still uses time.clock(), even though it's ma http://bugs.python.org/issue20475 closed by gvanrossum #21119: asyncio create_connection resource warning http://bugs.python.org/issue21119 closed by haypo #21180: Efficiently create empty array.array, consistent with bytearra http://bugs.python.org/issue21180 closed by gvanrossum #21233: Add *Calloc functions to CPython memory allocation API http://bugs.python.org/issue21233 closed by haypo #21252: Lib/asyncio/events.py has tons of docstrings which are just "X http://bugs.python.org/issue21252 closed by haypo #21304: PEP 466: Backport hashlib.pbkdf2_hmac to Python 2.7 http://bugs.python.org/issue21304 closed by python-dev #21344: save scores or ratios in difflib get_close_matches http://bugs.python.org/issue21344 closed by zach.ware #21462: PEP 466: upgrade OpenSSL in the Python 2.7 Windows builds http://bugs.python.org/issue21462 closed by benjamin.peterson #21477: Idle: improve idle_test.htest http://bugs.python.org/issue21477 closed by terry.reedy #21504: can the subprocess module war using os.wait4 and so return usa http://bugs.python.org/issue21504 closed by r.david.murray #21533: built-in types dict docs - construct dict from iterable, not i http://bugs.python.org/issue21533 closed by terry.reedy #21552: String length overflow in Tkinter http://bugs.python.org/issue21552 closed by serhiy.storchaka #21572: Use generic license web page rather than requiring release-spe http://bugs.python.org/issue21572 closed by ned.deily #21576: Overwritten (custom) uuid inside dictionary http://bugs.python.org/issue21576 closed by r.david.murray #21583: use support.captured_stderr context manager - test_logging http://bugs.python.org/issue21583 closed by python-dev #21593: Clarify re.search documentation first match http://bugs.python.org/issue21593 closed by terry.reedy #21594: asyncio.create_subprocess_exec raises OSError http://bugs.python.org/issue21594 closed by haypo #21601: Cancel method for Asyncio Task is not documented http://bugs.python.org/issue21601 closed by haypo #21604: Misleading 2to3 fixer name in documentation: standard_error http://bugs.python.org/issue21604 closed by python-dev #21605: Add tests for Tkinter images http://bugs.python.org/issue21605 closed by serhiy.storchaka #21612: IDLE should not open multiple instances of one file http://bugs.python.org/issue21612 closed by terry.reedy #21618: POpen does not close fds when fds have been inherited from a p http://bugs.python.org/issue21618 closed by gregory.p.smith #21620: OrderedDict KeysView set operations not supported http://bugs.python.org/issue21620 closed by serhiy.storchaka #21628: 2to3 does not fix zip in some cases http://bugs.python.org/issue21628 closed by berker.peksag #21630: List Dict bug? http://bugs.python.org/issue21630 closed by Robert.w #21631: List/Dict Combination Bug http://bugs.python.org/issue21631 closed by rhettinger #21634: Pystone uses floats http://bugs.python.org/issue21634 closed by haypo #21636: test_logging fails on Windows for Unix tests http://bugs.python.org/issue21636 closed by haypo #21637: Add a warning section exaplaining that tempfiles are opened in http://bugs.python.org/issue21637 closed by r.david.murray #21638: Seeking to EOF is too inefficient! http://bugs.python.org/issue21638 closed by yanlinlin82 #21639: tracemalloc crashes with floating point exception when using S http://bugs.python.org/issue21639 closed by haypo #21640: References to other Python version in sidebar of documentation http://bugs.python.org/issue21640 closed by orsenthil #21641: smtplib leaves open sockets around if SMTPResponseException is http://bugs.python.org/issue21641 closed by orsenthil #21643: "File exists" error during venv --upgrade http://bugs.python.org/issue21643 closed by python-dev #21651: asyncio tests ResourceWarning http://bugs.python.org/issue21651 closed by haypo #21653: Row.keys() in sqlite3 returns a list, not a tuple http://bugs.python.org/issue21653 closed by r.david.murray #21654: IDLE call tips emitting future warnings about ElementTree obje http://bugs.python.org/issue21654 closed by rhettinger #21661: setuptools documentation: typo http://bugs.python.org/issue21661 closed by python-dev #21662: datamodel documentation: fix typo and phrasing http://bugs.python.org/issue21662 closed by r.david.murray #21663: venv upgrade fails on Windows when copying TCL files http://bugs.python.org/issue21663 closed by python-dev

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Request: new "Asyncio" component on the bug tracker
by Victor Stinner 05 Jun '14

05 Jun '14

Hi, Would it be possible to add a new "Asyncio" component on bugs.python.org? If this component is selected, the default nosy list for asyncio would be used (guido, yury and me, there is already such list in the nosy list completion). Full text search for "asyncio" returns too many results. Victor

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Should standard library modules optimize for CPython?
by Steven D'Aprano 04 Jun '14

04 Jun '14

I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway... I know that there is a general policy of trying to write code in the standard library that does not disadvantage other implementations. How far does that go the other way? Should the standard library accept slower code because it will be much faster in other implementations? Briefly, I have a choice of algorithm for the median function in the statistics module. If I target CPython, I will use a naive but simple O(N log N) implementation based on sorting the list and returning the middle item. (That's what the module currently does.) But if I target PyPy, I will use an O(N) algorithm which knocks the socks off the naive version even for smaller lists. In CPython that's typically 2-5 times slower; in PyPy it's typically 3-8 times faster, and the bigger the data set the more the advantage. For the specific details, see http://bugs.python.org/issue21592 My feeling is that the CPython standard library should be written for CPython, that is, it should stick to the current naive implementation of median, and if PyPy wants to speed the function up, they can provide their own version of the module. I should *not* complicate the implementation by trying to detect which Python the code is running under and changing algorithms accordingly. However, I should put a comment in the module pointing at the tracker issue. Does this sound right to others? Thanks, -- Steve

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Some notes about MicroPython from an observer
by Daniel Holth 04 Jun '14

04 Jun '14

- micropython is designed to run on a machine with 192 kilobytes of RAM and perhaps a megabyte of FLASH. The controller can execute read-only code directly from FLASH. There is no dynamic linker in this environment. (It also has a UNIX port). - However it does include a full Python parser and REPL, so the board can be programmed without a separate computer as opposed to, say, having to upload bytecode compiled on a regular computer. - It's definitely going to be a subset of Python. For example, func.__name__ is not supported - to make it more micro? - They have a C API. It is much different than the CPython C API. - It mas more than one code emitter. A certain decorator causes a function to be compiled to ARM Thumb code instead of bytecode. - It even has an inline assembler than translates Python-syntax ARM assembly (to re-use the same parser) into machine code. Most information from https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/214379695/micro-python-python-for-micr… and http://micropython.org/

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%x formatting of floats - behaviour change since 3.4
by Chris Angelico 03 Jun '14

03 Jun '14

I'm helping out with the micropython project and am finding that one of their tests fails on CPython 3.5 (fresh build from Mercurial this morning). It comes down to this: Python 3.4.1rc1 (default, May 5 2014, 14:28:34) [GCC 4.8.2] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> "%x"%16.0 '10' Python 3.5.0a0 (default:88814d1f8c32, Jun 4 2014, 07:29:32) [GCC 4.7.2] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> "%x"%16.0 Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: %x format: an integer is required, not float Is this an intentional change? And if so, is it formally documented somewhere? I don't recall seeing anything about it, but my recollection doesn't mean much. ChrisA

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use cases for "python-config" versus "pkg-config python"
by Michael Haubenwallner 02 Jun '14

02 Jun '14

Hello! Stumbling over problems on AIX (Modules/python.exp not found) building libxml2 as python module let me wonder about the intended use-cases for 'python-config' and 'pkg-config python'. FWIW, I can see these distinct use cases here, and I'm kindly asking if I got them right: * Build an application containing a python interpreter (like python$EXE itself): + link against libpython.so + re-export symbols from libpython.so for python-modules (platform-specific) + This is similar to build against any other library, thus = 'python.pc' is installed (for 'pkg-config python'). * Build a python-module (like build/lib.<platform>-<pyver>/*.so): + no need to link against libpython.so, instead + expect symbols from libpython.so to be available at runtime, platform-specific either as + undefined symbols at build-time (Linux, others), or + a list of symbols to import from "the main executable" (AIX) + This is specific to python-modules, thus = 'python-config' is installed. Thank you! /haubi/

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Updating turtle.py
by Terry Reedy 02 Jun '14

02 Jun '14

I have two areas of questions about updating turtle.py. First the module itself, then a turtle tracker issue versus code cleanup policies. A. Unlike most stdlib modules, turtle is copyrighted and licensed by an individual. ''' # turtle.py: a Tkinter based turtle graphics module for Python # Version 1.1b - 4. 5. 2009 # Copyright (C) 2006 - 2010 Gregor Lingl # email: glingl(a)aon.at ''' I am not sure what the copyright covers other than the exact text contributed, with updates, by Gregor. It certainly does not cover the API and whatever code he copied from the previous version (unless that was also by him, and I have no idea how much he copied when reimplementing). I don't think it should cover additions made by others either. Should there be another line to cover these? ''' # Permission is granted to anyone to use this software for any purpose, # including commercial applications, and to alter it and redistribute it # freely, subject to the following restrictions: # # 1. The origin of this software must not be misrepresented; you must not # claim that you wrote the original software. If you use this software # in a product, an acknowledgment in the product documentation would be # appreciated but is not required. # 2. Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be # misrepresented as being the original software. # 3. This notice may not be removed or altered from any source distribution. ''' As to point 2, the source has been altered a bit (by others) but it is not marked as such. How should it be? ''' _ver = "turtle 1.1b- - for Python 3.1 - 4. 5. 2009" ''' Obsolete; delete or alter (how)? When this replaced the previous turtle.py, it was considered 'owned' by Gregor in that changes had to go through him. However, he became inactive soon after and maintenance ceased. There has been only one turtle-specific code change that I know of (by Ned Daily, a month ago, for OSX. So is turtle.py unpatchable by anyone or fair game for anyone? A particular example: Gregor added intermediate layers to isolate turtle from tkinter. (He had a plan to add other backends, but I believe he abandoned that.) If someone wanted to reduce the layering and make the code easier to understand and maintain, while speeding execution, would that be allowed now? B. Lets assuming that turtle.py is, at least to some degree, fair game for fixes and enhancements. PSF Python PyLadies (Jessica Keller, Lynn Root) are participating in the 2014 GNOME Outreach Program for Women (OPW) https://wiki.python.org/moin/OPW/2014 . One of the projects (bottem of that page) is Graphical Python, in particular Turtle. A few days ago, Jessica posted http://bugs.python.org/issue21573 Clean up turtle.py code formatting "Lib/turtle.py has some code formatting issues. Let's clean them up to make the module easier to read as interns start working on it this summer." She want to follow cleanup with code examination, fixes, and enhancements. Responding today, I cautioned that clean-up only patches, such as she apparently would like to start with, are not in favor. But I cannot say how the policy applies to her proposal. Does the 'promise' of later work on the code make preliminary clean-up ok? Since she only marked the issue for 3.5, I also cautioned that 3.5-only cleanups would make fixing bugs in other issues harder. Is the code clean-up policy the same for all branches? Test? you ask?. There are apparently no unittests for turtle. On the other hand, turtledemo tests the overall function of the module and of many (most) of the top-level turtle functions. -- Terry Jan Reedy

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