Mailman 3 January 2004 - Mailman-Developers

Calling all Mailman hosting sites
by Barry Warsaw 25 Feb '04

25 Feb '04

I've had a lot of requests recently for information about Mailman hosting. As a general rule I don't like to recommend any particular hosting company. But if you do provide Mailman hosting facilities, please make sure you've added yourself to the PythonHosting wiki: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting I usually point people here for more information, so please make sure you're on that list. Now to check the FAQ and see if it points here... -Barry

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Tracking down a permissions bug in attachments
by Andrew Mellinger 09 Feb '04

09 Feb '04

Y'all, I think I may have found a bug with the attachments code and hoped that you guys could give me some input. When trying to save an attachment my installation of mailman provides the following error. +---- Jan 23 07:05:52 2004 (24615) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 208, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, in processUnixMailbox m = mbox.next() File "/usr/pkg/lib/python2.2/mailbox.py", line 34, in next return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop)) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber return mailbox.scrub(msg) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 219, in process url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir, filter_html=0) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 344, in save_attachment makedirs(fsdir) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 336, in makedirs os.path.walk(dir, twiddle, None) File "/usr/pkg/lib/python2.2/posixpath.py", line 279, in walk func(arg, top, names) File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 335, in twiddle os.chmod(dirname, 02775) OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted: '/var/db/mailman/archives/private/rq-rules/attachments/20040123/72aeb309' +---------- Now, it looks to me like Mailman is trying to set permissions on the newly created directory to 02775. I'm running on NetBSD which doesn't let anyone but the superuser set the 2000 (setuid) bit. I imagine this setting (02775) was done for linux which overloads the setuid bit for as 'set group' on new files. Does this sound like a good assessment? If so, is there a generic way to turn this sort of thing off in a config? (I searched by couldn't find anything.) Isn't this something that should be handled at build time? Thanks for any feedback! -Andrew

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AOL's requirements for spam complaints
by Somuchfun 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

Ok, I just got off the phone with AOL's postmaster dept. and found out the whole scoop why they have to strip out the To: address from complaints. There was a lawsuit of breach of privacy so AOL can no longer share the To: field in their feedback loop. So here is the solution: Mailman needs to create something like an x-client-id header that has the recipient email address in it because this header will stay intact when a complaint comes back. This header needs to be created whether mailman runs in personalization mode or not. So the questions is not can mailman do it or not?

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Translation F'up2 => Reply-To
by Michael Heydekamp 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

Hi, anybody here who could deliver Python code for the following? In news2mail direction, I'd like to "translate" the F'up2 header (containing one or more newsgroups) to the Reply-To: header by preserving any already existing Reply-To addresses. One of four mailing lists is assigned to each of four newsgroups respectively. These mailing list addresses shall be concatenated to the Reply-To: header. Other arbitrary newsgroups in the F'up2 header should simply be disregarded. In mail2news direction I managed this by tweaking the INN filter, but I'm far beyond from being that familiar with Python as I am with Perl. Some example code to start with would already help. Michael

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A bit of perspective ....
by Kevin McCann 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

Maybe I ought to explain what I'm up against. At work I'm running Lyris. I have hundreds of lists and many, many members. I also have Mailman running a handful of small-ish lists (and at home I run a server with Mailman for a personal interest discussion list of nearly 1,000 members). My organization (and in fact, my entire industry of international development) is embracing open source with a fervor and one of the things on the to-do list is to move all services that run on commercial software to open source software. NT, IIS, ColdFusion and Lyris, are, for all intents and purposes, history. I now have online communities that have been very much accustomed to Lyris features, performance, functionality, etc. Not to mention the web interfaces that marry Lyris and other online resources (profiles, documents, calendar, etc.). I have the unenviable challenge of moving these people to a Mailman environment without making them feel like it is a step backward. I would really like to believe that this is possible. I'm not ready to give up on this quite yet. I have looked at other open source MLM's, and for one reason or another, the others aren't at all usable. Mailman is the closest thing I see to a solution. Anyway, that's my sob story. I'll continue to look forward for solutions. Flame away if it'll make you feel like a better person, but I'm not giving up that easily. - Kevin

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I'm hiring...
by Chuq Von Rospach 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

god, I just realized I forgot to post these here. Hope you don't mind, Barry. Full-time postmaster position (primarily administrative, not technical): http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/001267.html "List mom": (moderately technical, with internal evangelism and needs analysis, and helping us figure out the next generation of "all this stuff") http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/001254.html And finally: (very technical, short-term contract) http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/001138.html (note: the job itself is filled, the contract spot it mentions needs to be filled in february) All are in silicon valley, all are being actively interviewed. All have to be willing to put up with, well, me hanging around and asking weird questions and stuff. Just so you're warned upfront...

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How to change that unsubscriptions also require confirmation
by Somuchfun 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

Hello, Due to current legislation we need to change mailman to also require confirmation for unsubscribe requests. Does anyone know how? Thanks!

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Mailman unsubscribe mechanism unclear
by Somuchfun 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

Hello, Can someone explain the exact mechanism mailman uses for unsubscriptions? I see some of them are done without a confirmation and some members get an email with a token asked to return it to confirm their unsubscription. I have played around with mailman but are not able to figure out how it determines when a confirmation is needed and when not. Hostile unsubscriptions are a growing problem and I would need a way to make sure all unsubscriptions need to be confirmed. Thanks as always for the great help!

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Any SQL people going to Barry's sprint?
by Kevin McCann 30 Jan '04

30 Jan '04

A while ago Barry posted a message about a Mailman 3 sprint which is to occur in March. I was wondering if any SQL (especially MySQL) people are planning to go. If you have strong Python and MySQL skills, please drop me a note. I'm trying to identify a candidate from among a few organizations I'm working with on a project that will use an OS MLM (most likely Mailman), but I'm willing to look elsewhere if there is nobody suitable from that pool. Bottom line, I'm willing to pay to make Mailman SQL-able (as a choice) for all three data sources (list config, members, message archives). Barry, what's the word? Have any SQL folks contacted you? - Kevin

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my 2cts on Personalization, AOL, performance
by Ricardo 30 Jan '04

30 Jan '04

Hi, A few things I wanted to respond to. First of all, I agree that personalization is an important feature for certain lists. Especially if your target audience isn't the average computer geek. I need it for two reasons: easy unsubscription and bulletproof bounce detection (or better: reported-as-spam-by-AOL-user-detection). One could argue that users need to be educated better, but sometimes that's almost like striving for world peace. I can agree that mailman might be too slow for huge personalized lists, but my lists aren't bigger than 3k users... I have been running mailman for many years now. In the beginning it was running on an ancient Pentium 75 machine, so performance was a big issue for me (I couldn't even approve more than 5 posts at a time or else the system could crash ;) ) but now I have a 2Ghz machine with fast disks at my disposal so mailman won't have any trouble sending out those 3000 messages... Speaking of personalization: what is the main reason it hasn't been implemented for digests yet? Simply a lack of time or are there some important design issues which make it difficult? If isn't too difficult I could try to invest some time it myself to try to get it to work (I'm not a python god, but I can manage) about improving delivery speed: what about implementing LMTP? (http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/rfc/rfc2033.txt) Regards, Ricardo.

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message IDs
by Dietmar Maurer 30 Jan '04

30 Jan '04

Hi all, is it possible to tell mailman to change the message ID of a mail, so that the original mail and the mails delivered to the members have different IDs? best regards, Dietmar --------------------------------------------------- Dietmar Maurer Maurer IT Systemlösungen KEG Technischer Leiter Kohlgasse 51/9 Tel: +43 1 545 449 712 A - 1050 WIEN Fax: +43 1 545 449 722 Mobil: +43 699 105 88 032 dietmar(a)maurer-it.com http://www.maurer-it.com ---------------------------------------------------

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one-click unsubscribe
by Jim Gottlieb 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

Is anyone working on extending VERP-like features to allow for true one-click unsubscribe? Right now, it's at least three-click, plus waiting for the confirmation to arrive. We'd really like to include a link in each message that will allow them to very easily get off our list. On a related note, if we were to send HTML email (I know, I know), will variables be expanded in the text we submit so that we could create links that will be different for each user? So that, say with the current capabilities, we could have something like <A HREF=http://mailman.nccom.com/mailman/options/kxt/%(member-address)s>Click here to manage your subscription</A>

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What happens with mailman after a crash
by Somuchfun 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

I have a question in regards to mailman's recovery abilities. Let's say mailman is running and sending out messages to a large list and the machine crashes or is rebooted, does mailman pickup where it stopped? Or is the run gone forever?

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Patch submitted: Information leak when issuing a subscribe request
by Tom McAdam 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Hi, I have submitted a patch (id 885098) for an information leak of subscription status for an address by sending a subscribe request via email. Thanks are also due to Ashok Argent-Katwala for his assistance in identifying this problem. Tom McAdam

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re: change password: automatic email confirmation
by Craig Elkins 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Hi, Is it possible for me to configure mailman so when a member changes their password it is automatically emailed to them? currently i can change it but i don't get a confirmation email unless i click the forgot password button. thanks, craig

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PLEASE HELP!!!!! need to customize subject line in new subscribers welcome message! in english (en?)
by Craig Elkins 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

PLEASE HELP!!!!! need to customize subject line in new subscribers welcome message! in english (en?) i can't find the mailman.po english (US) version - i would assume the directory would be called "en" and it would be in messages - but I don't see it. please tell me what i am missing here - my client is about to shoot me!!!!!!!! also, after i change the message what else to i need to do? thanks! craig

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Adding headers to mailman generated mails
by Somuchfun 25 Jan '04

25 Jan '04

I have a problem that might affect lots of people who send emails to large lists. AOL requires an additional header in the emails identifying the recipient for the feedback loops to unsubscribe AOL users who complain. So how do I add an additional header with a field? Thanks for all the help!

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prevent qp as qp routine broken
by Michael Heydekamp 25 Jan '04

25 Jan '04

Hi, as Mailman's qp routine seems to be completely broken I'd like to know how to prevent Mailman from qp'ing messages (for instance when sending out subscribeack.txt) at all. I don't see the benefit of qp'ing anyway but wouldn't mind if Mailman would do it correctly. But that's not the case ... Any hint is appreciated. Michael

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] embedded html problem with large lists
by ryan 24 Jan '04

24 Jan '04

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Brad Knowles wrote: > Read Barry's reply, which I believe was sent earlier today. > > In short, Mailman doesn't do anything different in this respect, > regardless of whether there is one recipient or a million. Something > else must have happened. I apologize -- I missed Barry's reply, and coincidentally didn't think my first post to this list ever made it past the moderator. Thank you to Brad and Berry for replying. Both of you suggested it was not Mailman which caused this behavior. >From your experience, do you think that it could be my MTA, Sendmail 8.12.6? It is a fairly stock configuration. I know this is a bit off topic, but if anyone has any ideas here, I'd deeply appreciate a response (on or off list). Keep up the good work with Mailman, it's a great piece of software! Thanks again, Ryan

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Mailman and CVS
by Kory Wheatley 24 Jan '04

24 Jan '04

This question is not really related to Mailman, but I'm sure with the knowledge of the developers it can easily be answered about CVS. I've been asked to setup a CVS Repository on a dedicated machine just for this purpose, of course users will need to be able to add their updates over the network. My question is where is good instructions about using CVS (commands), and installing it on one center Repository, and setting up rights for individuals. Thank you in advance. -- Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him.

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Filtering certain characters from email addresses?
by Matt Goebel 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

Hello, Searched the archives and didn't see any references to this. Would it be possible to add some character filtering for email addresses before they are added to a list? I've been having more and more problems with admins using the mass subscribe function where they are cutting and pasting from word and picking up null characters, and other odd things. Mailman will happily add the addresses but then can't do anything with them later on, forcing me to use a hex editor to remove the odd characters. Thanks, Mattias -- Matthew Goebel : goebel(a)emunix.emich.edu : Unix Jockey @ EMU : Hail Eris Neo-Student, Net Lurker, Donut consumer, and procrastinating Furry Fan. "Always with the negative waves, Moriarty" - Oddball "Comfort the troubled, and trouble the comfortable." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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mailman setup
by Guillaume Rousse 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

Hello. I'm one of the guy managing the mailman package for mandrake-linux. I've currently trying to make setup a bit more standard and FHS compliant. I need developpers help however, first to make sure my changes won't cause trouble, second as I think some of these change should get merged upstream, as they would benefit more people. The first issue is file location. We are trying to achieve FHS compliance, so i had to move things a bit. I'm using the --with-var-prefix configure option to have variable files in /var/lib/mailman and non-variables files in /usr/lib/mailman. That is supported by mailman install. Then i move logs from /var/lib/mailman/logs to /var/log/mailman through a symlink. The config file location, however, is still puzzling me. Having a configuration file (mm_cfg.py) under /usr is non-standard, as /usr is supposed to be read-only. Moreover, it is a pain for us packagers, as we have to include everything but this file as normal files, then tag it as config file. I'd really think it should be moved in /etc instead, either by me using a symlink, but much better by an upstream change. The second issue are perms. The default install make everything owned by the uid/gid determined at configure stage (mail/mail for me), and make all directories setgid, even for non-variables files, which is quite really a non-standard practice. So i tried to clean it a bit. I made everything under /usr/lib/mailman owned by root.root, with standard perms (644 for files, 755 for directories) except the binaries in /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin and usr/lib/mailman/mail which are setgid, and owned by mail group. I tested, it seems to work. I also made top-level directory for variable files (/var/lib/mailman) owned by root/root with standard 755 perms, but i didn't tried yet further perm modifications there, as mailman need write permissions in subdirectories. You can have a look at the spec file in CVS if you want details (http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SPECS/mailman/mailman.spec). Your comments on my changes are welcome, as well as what could get integrated into mailman. -- Those who hesitate under fire usually do not end up KIA, MIA or WIA -- Murphy's Military Laws n°101

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embedded html problem with large lists
by ryan 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

No one has been able to answer this on mailman-users for over a week. I'm hoping one of you can help diagnose this problem. On one of my Mailman lists, I send out messages with embedded HTML. These messages contain inline images. I sent out 2 test messages to a pre-configured list. For the two tests, the list had only 6 staff members subscribed. The message looked great, everyone saw the content with the image correctly aligned in the body of the message, between the two blocks of text where it belonged. However, after I added the 6700+ actual email addresses to the SAME list, and sent out the SAME email, the image was removed from the body of the message and included as an attachment instead. This essentially made my pretty little email look like crap. Again, the same list (same configuration), and the same email were used for the successful test, and the unsuccessful real mail-out. I cannot stress enough that these were the *exact* same emails, for both the test with 6 users, and the later mailing with 6700+; the filesizes were the exact same, and the HTML was unchanged. So... my only theory is: at some cut-off point, Mailman decides that there are two many users on a list to embed html/images into every email. Perhaps because it is more efficient to store the html once and then reference it as an attachment when each member is emailed? Or could this be some behavior of my mailer daemon, Sendmail? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Ryan

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BounceRunner.py patch
by SHIGENO Kazutaka 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

Hi, Please use if the following patch is required for Mailman. --- Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py- Sat Nov 22 07:45:04 2003 +++ Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py Thu Jan 8 19:15:56 2004 @@ -68,7 +68,7 @@ # All messages to list-owner(a)vdom.ain have their envelope sender set # to site-owner(a)dom.ain (no virtual domain). Is this a bounce for a # message to a list owner, coming to the site owner? - if msg.get('to', '') == Utils.get_site_email(extra='-owner'): + if msg.get('to', '') == Utils.get_site_email(extra='owner'): # Send it on to the site owners, but craft the envelope sender to # be the -loop detection address, so if /they/ bounce, we won't # get stuck in a bounce loop. -- shigeno

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images embedded in html: inline vs. attached
by ryan 23 Jan '04

23 Jan '04

Hi, I've tried searching the list archives, and posting to the mailman-users list, but I can't seem to find an answer to my problem. Hopefully someone on this list can shed some light... A quick background: At the non-profit museum where I work, we use Mailman to inform our paying members (and other general members of the public who signup to our lists) about our current exhibitions and events. We like to use HTML formatted messages with in-body (inline?) images for this purpose. It looks nice, and conforms with the overall look of our website and other publications in print. I realize sending out bulk HTML mailings is probably not the most typical use of Mailman, but it works great for us, and allows people who don't want our emails to quickly remove themselves without requiring our intervention. Here's the problem: Today I sent out 2 test messages to a pre-configured list. For the two tests, the list had only 6 staff members subscribed. The message looked great, everyone saw the content with the image correctly aligned in the body of the message, between the two blocks of text where it belonged. However, after I added the 6700+ actual email addresses to the SAME list, and sent out the SAME email, the image was removed from the body of the message and included as an attachment instead. This essentially made our pretty little email look like crap. This behavior occurred on all the computers of the 6 staff members where I had previously tested, plus on additional accounts that I was able to confirm through phone calls, etc. Again, the same list (same configuration), and the same email were used for the successful test and the unsuccessful real mail-out. I cannot stress enough that these were the *exact* same emails, for both the test with 6 users, and the later mailing with 6700+; the filesizes were the exact same, and the HTML was unchanged. So... my only theory is: at some cut-off point, Mailman decides that there are two many users on a list to embed an image in every email. Perhaps because you thought it more efficient to store the image once and then reference it as an attachment when each member is emailed? Or could this be some behavior of my mailer daemon, Sendmail? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Ryan

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