Mailman 3 May 2011 - Mailman-Developers

before next release: disable backscatter in default installation
by Jo Rhett Nov. 7, 2022

Nov. 7, 2022

Hi. There's a fairly simple problem here that needs to be addressed. And it's mostly a documentation/install problem. I'm hoping we can get this resolved before the next release. PROBLEM: Mailman comes out of the box ready to backscatter spam people. Yes, it's easy enough to fix. But because it comes stock this way, and is documented to install this way, most people install it to do this. Those of us who work in abuse departments are tired of hearing "well that's how Mailman works". We also object to having to teach people how to fix their mailman installations because it's not documented in the current manual. This is *exactly* like Sendmail 14 years ago. We didn't accept it then, and Sendmail fixed the problem. RESOLUTION: Mailman default installation should not backscatter in a default configuration. 1. Don't create backscatter aliases for subscribe/unsubscribe/etc by default. Nearly everyone uses web based signup. 2. Discard or hold messages from non-subscribers by default. I would think that it would be perfectly reasonable to have documentation on how to enable the 1980s-style -request / -subscribe etc aliases. However this documentation should have a note that this is against the AUP of nearly every network provider, and enabling it will likely cause them to get listed in various blacklists as a backscatter source. FYI: I know that this goes against the instincts of many old-time mailing list advocates here. But after dealing with a 10k/hour backscatter DoS my tolerance for this problem is understandably limited. Yes, it was a sweet day back in the 1980s. I was running a mailing list server and several UUCP gateways at the time, so I remember them well. But those days are past, and we need to deal with the reality of today. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness

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FreeBSD 8.2, Python2.7, Exim-4 and MM3
by Odhiambo Washington June 20, 2011

June 20, 2011

Hello everyone, This is my first post to this list so please bear with me. I am not a developer and as such I request you again to bear with me. My only endeavor is be able to get MM3 running on FreeBSD with Python2.7 and Exim 4 as the MTA. So far I have hit a deadlock, hence my coming to you. I have Python2.7 and py-sqlite3 installed from the ports. These are the latest versions on the FreeBSD ports tree. I have downloaded and installed MM-3.0 (mailman-3.0.0a7) and closely followed the instructions. So far, I've gotten stuck on one of the tests - `bin/mailman info`. Let me start with the output of bin/test -vv (I've truncated it to just the top and the bottom bits): <top bits> bin/test -vv Running tests at level 1 Running mailman.testing.layers.ConfigLayer tests: Set up mailman.testing.layers.MockAndMonkeyLayer in 0.000 seconds. Set up mailman.testing.layers.ConfigLayer Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 380, in run_layer setup_layer(options, layer, setup_layers) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 672, in setup_layer layer.setUp() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/testing/layers.py", line 120, in setUp initialize.initialize_2() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 145, in initialize_2 database.initialize(debug) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/database/stock.py", line 61, in initialize self._create(debug) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/database/stock.py", line 96, in _create database = create_database(url) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/storm-0.18-py2.7-freebsd-8.2-STABLE-i386.egg/storm/database.py", line 460, in create_database return factory(uri) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/storm-0.18-py2.7-freebsd-8.2-STABLE-i386.egg/storm/databases/sqlite.py", line 177, in __init__ raise DatabaseModuleError("'pysqlite2' module not found") DatabaseModuleError: 'pysqlite2' module not found Running mailman.testing.layers.SMTPLayer tests: Set up mailman.testing.layers.ConfigLayer Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 380, in run_layer setup_layer(options, layer, setup_layers) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 667, in setup_layer setup_layer(options, base, setup_layers) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 672, in setup_layer layer.setUp() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/testing/layers.py", line 91, in setUp initialize.initialize_1(INHIBIT_CONFIG_FILE) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 116, in initialize_1 mailman.config.config.load(config_path) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/config/config.py", line 105, in load self._post_process() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/config/config.py", line 125, in _post_process Switchboard.initialize() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/queue/__init__.py", line 87, in initialize 'Duplicate qrunner name: {0}'.format(name)) AssertionError: Duplicate qrunner name: retry Running mailman.testing.layers.RESTLayer tests: Set up mailman.testing.layers.ConfigLayer Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 380, in run_layer setup_layer(options, layer, setup_layers) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 667, in setup_layer setup_layer(options, base, setup_layers) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 667, in setup_layer setup_layer(options, base, setup_layers) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/zope.testrunner-4.0.3-py2.7.egg/zope/testrunner/runner.py", line 672, in setup_layer layer.setUp() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/testing/layers.py", line 91, in setUp initialize.initialize_1(INHIBIT_CONFIG_FILE) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 116, in initialize_1 mailman.config.config.load(config_path) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/config/config.py", line 105, in load self._post_process() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/config/config.py", line 125, in _post_process Switchboard.initialize() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/queue/__init__.py", line 87, in initialize 'Duplicate qrunner name: {0}'.format(name)) AssertionError: Duplicate qrunner name: retry </top bits> <bottom bits> Ran 134 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in 0.728 seconds. Tearing down left over layers: Tear down zope.testrunner.layer.UnitTests in 0.000 seconds. Tests with errors: Layer: mailman.testing.layers.ConfigLayer Layer: mailman.testing.layers.SMTPLayer Layer: mailman.testing.layers.RESTLayer Total: 134 tests, 0 failures, 3 errors in 1.142 seconds. </bottom bits> So I can see the failures but have no clue of how to fix them. Now, when I invoke `bin/mailman info`, this is what I get: mail# bin/mailman info Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/mailman", line 20, in <module> mailman.bin.mailman.main() File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line 98, in main initialize(config_file) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 174, in initialize initialize_2(propagate_logs=propagate_logs) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 145, in initialize_2 database.initialize(debug) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/database/stock.py", line 61, in initialize self._create(debug) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/src/mailman/database/stock.py", line 96, in _create database = create_database(url) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/storm-0.18-py2.7-freebsd-8.2-STABLE-i386.egg/storm/database.py", line 460, in create_database return factory(uri) File "/usr/local/mailman-3.0.0a7/eggs/storm-0.18-py2.7-freebsd-8.2-STABLE-i386.egg/storm/databases/sqlite.py", line 177, in __init__ raise DatabaseModuleError("'pysqlite2' module not found") storm.exceptions.DatabaseModuleError: 'pysqlite2' module not found There is no py-sqlite2 port on FreeBSD 8.2 at the moment. Is there something I can do to get past this deadlock? The second part of my problem is how to integrate MM3 with Exim4. I am informed that things have greatly changed from the way Exim4 was configured with MM2 (2.1.x). I am hoping that there are Exim gurus here, who have already worked on a configuration for MM3+Exim and have documented the bits required for both exim.conf and mailman.cf. Thanks. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

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ACL in Mailman - what's you opinion
by Benedict Stein June 1, 2011

June 1, 2011

Dear List-subscribers, wacky and i discussed a few things about how to implement ACL within the Mailman3 parts. I've wrote a small Blogpost about it in http://benste.blogspot.com/2011/05/mailman-3-restapi-webui-acl.html just in case you want to contribute to Pro/Con list directly go to http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Pro+-+Con+ACL+in+different+Layers+%28WebUI…

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Proposal for a new menu grouping in MM3 webUI
by Benedict Stein May 27, 2011

May 27, 2011

As introduced by terry yesterday I'm the one who will support the development of the WebUI which should be published together with MM3 - or even better as a standalone Django Application using the REST-Api. Those who already saw my Blogpost know what I'm talking about now - the new menu grouping. I've created a mindmap showing a possible regrouping of menu items. Florian asked me only to use these which are already available in the REST API. Just in case you didn't read my Blog yet - I've attached the image. Feel free to give any feedback you like, but I'm especially interested in the following things: 1. Digest → volume : Do you really need this internal value to be displayed in the WebUI ? 2. What do you think about regrouping all List related mail adresses from General Options to a special "Mail " section 3. Same like 2. but formatting options 4. Sorting out all kind of notifications 5. showing stats within the archives view instead of the config Thanks for you help improving this work. benste

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NNTP gateway proposal
by Joshua Cranmer May 27, 2011

May 27, 2011

So, one of my most annoying problems with mailman is the operation of its mail-news gateway. Due to the rewriting of message-IDs, most ways of sending messages causes threading to horribly break. My proposal is this: optimize for the common case and avoid rewriting message IDs if not necessary. In other words, if the given message ID does not already exist on the server, do not rewrite the message ID. To handle most common cases of cross-posting to multiple mailing lists, find all mailing lists in the to/cc headers and use those to find all of the newsgroups. Additionally, if it turns out that the message ID needs to be rewritten, the old message ID would be additionally saved to the references header. While it won't fix the threading totally, it should preserve some sense of the structure. The biggest potential pitfall I see is if multiple mail servers inject the message into Usenet via different NNTP servers, so that some of Usenet sees it one group and some see it in some other group. What are your thoughts on this?

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sievelib and Modoboa
by Barry Warsaw May 27, 2011

May 27, 2011

Hi folks, I wanted to point you at two very cool looking tools that Antoine Nguyen has developed, and introduced to me by Patrick Ben Koetter. I haven't had time to look into these in detail, but if you're looking for some fun hacking ideas for Mailman 3, these could fit the bill. The first is sievelib: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/sievelib/0.1 Sieve is an email filtering language specified in RFC 5228. I've always thought it might be a pretty cool way for power users to manage the email Mailman sends them. It might even form the implementational basis for a topics-on-steroids like feature in MM3. This is the first implementation of Sieve written in Python that I'm aware of. Antoine wrote sievelib as part of his Modoboa project: http://modoboa.org/en/ which looks like a pretty cool take on making the management of email systems friendlier. Of course, Antoine, Patrick and I immediately thought that it might be cool to explore some integration opportunities between Modoboa and MM3. For those of you in the USA, what better way to spend the beautiful Memorial Day weekend than sitting in front of your screen hacking on some fun projects? :) Cheers, -Barry

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mailman breaking PGP/MIME-signed messages (was: Re: My First Signed email)
by Daniel Kahn Gillmor May 27, 2011

May 27, 2011

On Sun, 15 May 2011 13:11:36 -0400, "Robert J. Hansen" <rjh(a)sixdemonbag.org> wrote: > http://sixdemonbag.org/pgpmime.zip > > Contains the good message (taken from my outbox), the bad message (as > received from the list), and a diff between the two (as computed by > Cygwin's diff). Knock yourself out. This is clearly a problem with mailman; mailman is not treating the content within the multipart/signed message as an immmutable text. In particular, it's re-formatting multi-line headers within the signed part. This is apparently known upstream, reported many moons ago, when mailman used sourceforge as a bugtracker: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=815297&group_id=103&atid=10… And it appears to now be tracked upstream here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/558123 Below you can see the change: the additional wrapping block (with the mailing list footer) is totally fine. the error is in swapping the leading space for a tab before the boundary attribute for the Content-Type of the signed part. ------------------------------------------------------------ 0 dkg@pip:/tmp/cdtemp.4pvdgA$ wget -q http://sixdemonbag.org/pgpmime.zip 0 dkg@pip:/tmp/cdtemp.4pvdgA$ unzip -q -a pgpmime.zip 0 dkg@pip:/tmp/cdtemp.4pvdgA$ strip_headers() { > awk '{ if (X) {print $0} } /^$/{ X=1 }' > } 0 dkg@pip:/tmp/cdtemp.4pvdgA$ diff -u <(strip_headers < good_pgpmime.eml) <(strip_headers < bad_pgpmime.eml) --- /dev/fd/63 2011-05-27 13:01:37.705397276 -0400 +++ /dev/fd/62 2011-05-27 13:01:37.705397276 -0400 @@ -1,7 +1,13 @@ This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) +--===============1388267379== +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="------------enigA22A6723C9B8F9F9E4CFB403" + +This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigA22A6723C9B8F9F9E4CFB403 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; - boundary="------------020209060504060800050601" + boundary="------------020209060504060800050601" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020209060504060800050601 @@ -89,3 +95,16 @@ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigA22A6723C9B8F9F9E4CFB403-- + +--===============1388267379== +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline + +_______________________________________________ +Enigmail mailing list +Enigmail(a)mozdev.org +https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/enigmail + +--===============1388267379==-- 1 dkg@pip:/tmp/cdtemp.4pvdgA$ grep -i mailman-version *.eml bad_pgpmime.eml:X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 0 dkg@pip:/tmp/cdtemp.4pvdgA$ ------------------------------------------------------------ The right thing to do is to fix mailman to not tamper with the message body. Perhaps it has already been fixed since 2.1.12? Please follow up via mailman-developers@ (you may need to subscribe first) if you have patches to offer. If you don't want to subscribe, i'd be happy to forward patches to the list if they seem plausible. Regards, --dkg

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New Menu - Role Based Proposal
by Benedict Stein May 25, 2011

May 25, 2011

Hi there, I've picked up Patricks idea today and expanded the existing draft with a few other things, you can find both on http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/New+Menu it would be brilliant if you'd compare both and see what you'd like and if there is still anything to improve. Only one little explanation: the colors in the mindmap show the ACL (at least in the role based one) - description in the upper left corner. Each item connected to the middle could be traded as a tab-like navigation e.g. http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/benste%27s+GSoc+2011+-+page please bare in mind that these mockups don't represent any style ! - (only wackys idea of a combobox changeing the lists - thanks) the rest of the items are either heading or items, atm. I've noted only the fields which are present in the REST API, e.g. i didn't go into detail creating a new list as some values are readonly atm. -- Einen schönen Tag wünscht: Benedict Stein

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new updated proposed menu structure WebUI
by Benedict Stein May 24, 2011

May 24, 2011

HI, thanks for the feedback I got up to now - here version 2 of the "new" menu -- Kindest Regards Benedict Stein

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GnuPG support
by Stanisław Findeisen May 24, 2011

May 24, 2011

Hi I have a feature idea: GnuPG encryption and signing. Each list (or just the Mailman instance) has a private/public keypair. Each list subscriber can share her/his public key with Mailman. When sending mail to the list, the user can encrypt it with the list public key. Then Mailman decrypts the mail, and encrypts it back with each subscriber's key. This increases privacy: it will be harder for, for instance, subscriber's server administrator to read her/his mail. What do you think? -- Eisenbits - proven software solutions: http://www.eisenbits.com/ OpenPGP: E3D9 C030 88F5 D254 434C 6683 17DD 22A0 8A3B 5CC0

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