Mailman 3 July 2004 - Mailman-Developers

Alternate user (and admin) interfaces
by Ian Bicking Sept. 5, 2004

Sept. 5, 2004

I've been searching around for people's experiences implementing alternate web interfaces for Mailman, but I've been surprised not to find much. The desire to do this seems obvious to me -- there's a lot of different flavors of mailing list (discussion, announce, correspondance management, and many others). The interface tries to support all of these, and is rather overwhelming as a result. Since I haven't found other people making these interfaces, I'm guessing: (a) I'm not looking in the right places, (b) people are doing this but not sharing their results, (c) and it's so easy they don't even need to ask public questions about it, (d) or it's so hard they give up quickly, (e) or it's easy but fragile, and people create lots of prototypes but nothing serious, (e) or everyone lacks the imagination or interest to try. Now that I list them, (a) seems the most likely, but I swear I've really tried to find them. Are their examples people might suggest? Right now I'm just trying to evaluate the feasibility of creating a trimmed-down interface. Actually a couple interfaces: one for announce list subscribers (*very* minimal), another for announce list administrators (including some posting tools and reports), and another simplified discussion list user interface. Anyway, I just wanted to see if other people are thinking about this, have already done this, or can give any advise. It doesn't look hard from my first investigation, but I'm also not sure how to best implement -- Mailman's web interface confuses me a bit, and I'm guessing that it's an ad hoc application server. If we go ahead to make this, I suspect we'll want to do something more expedient (i.e., not based on Mailman 3.0), but it would be nice to do this in a way that can be shared, and something that isn't just a hack. -- Ian Bicking / ianb(a)colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org

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Relocating a list
by Nigel Metheringham Aug. 7, 2004

Aug. 7, 2004

We are (finally) about to upgrade exim.org to a less obsolete version of Mailman [the excuse up to now has been that the box was overloaded and a Pentium 200 wouldn't handle the upgrades needed to get current!]. In one transition we intend to:- * Move to new hardware (Original pentium to P-IV) * Move to a new OS (Linux (RH7.3) to FreeBSD) * Move to a new Python (1.5.2 to 2.3) * Move to a new directory layout and we would like to keep the change relatively transparent :-) In particular we would like to keep the archive URLs stable, so regenerating the archives from the mboxes is not really an option despite the fact it would give us slightly better handling of the few attachments that have made it to the list. [The archives have had messages removed in the past so a regenerate would not keep numbering stable] I've just been looking at Barry's notes for his list relocation at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg03127.html Would the process detailed there work OK for this sort of move - obviously I need to transfer the complete tree for a list from the old machine to the new one, but thats easy enough. The main thing I was wondering about is whether the python saved files (ie the list db file etc) will transfer OK, or whether they have machine/os/python-version dependencies that will preclude doing things this way? Cheers Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham(a)InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Bug 930819 -- onload focus for admlogin.html
by J C Lawrence Aug. 4, 2004

Aug. 4, 2004

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:38:42 -0300 Christian Robottom Reis <kiko(a)async.com.br> wrote: > Just a heads-up for bug 930819, which has a patch (two now) that adds > onload form focus to the password entry in admlogin.html, a usability > improvement for people using graphical browsers and maintaining many > lists. +1 -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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disabling some feature control to list-owners
by iv.longhi＠tiscali.it July 30, 2004

July 30, 2004

I manage a virtual community and I have installed mailman on my system in order to give the users the ability to create their own lists and manage them by themselves. For this pourpose I think that mailman is almost perfect, but I would like to avoid that list owners be able to change the default for some features, for example because I'm worry about that low skilled people can make changes that can make the list not usable (for example making a invalid host_name, etc.) Is there a way to avoid list owners change those values? Thanx, Ivan __________________________________________________________________ Tiscali ADSL Senza Canone, paga solo quello che consumi! Non perdere la promozione valida fino al 3 agosto. Per te gratis il modem in comodato e l'attivazione. In piu' navighi a soli 1,5 euro l'ora per i primi tre mesi. Cosa aspetti? Attivala subito! http://abbonati.tiscali.it/adsl/prodotti/640Kbps/

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a bug in 2.1.5 moderation web interface
by Stepan Kasal July 30, 2004

July 30, 2004

Hello, the moderator page "with details" doesn't have a "Submit" button at the top, only at the bottom. This looks weird, as the "Discard all deferred" checkbox is on the top (without the button). I've filed a bugzilla report on sourceforge. I'm not on this list, cc to me, please. Have a nice day, Stepan Kasal

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Update MM 2.1.2->2.1.5 fails and no help from mailman-users
by Frank Thommen July 29, 2004

July 29, 2004

Dear Mailman developers, I dare to post this problem to mailman-developers, because it is critical to us to solve it. I assume that "code insiders" as you can possibly help in this case. While updating MM from 2.1.2 to 2.1.5 (Mailman stopped, MTA stopped, lock directory cleared manually, Apache stopped, 'check_perms -f' done) the process of updating gets stuck at a specific point. I added a 'print mlist' in 'def update_pending()' after 'for listname in Utils.list_names(): mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)' to know where it happens: ------ # bin/update Upgrading from version 0x20102f0 to 0x20105f0 getting rid of old source files Updating mailing list: XXX [...updates all lists with one "could not acquire lock" message...] Updating Usenet watermarks - nothing to update here Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 7544. [..warns for many more "pending IDs"..] <mailing list "list1" (locked) at 4b8300> <mailing list "list2" (locked) at 4bbdf0> ------ ...and here the process stalls forever. I ^C-stopped the update several times, but it gets always stuck at the same list. If I nevertheless start 2.1.5, I get around 20 of the following errors; ------ # mailmanctl start Starting Mailman's master qrunner. # Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ? main() File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main qrunner.run() File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run filecnt = self._oneloop() File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase) File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 147, in dequeue data = cPickle.load(fp) EOFError [...] # ------ After that, MM 2.1.5 does not deliver any mails. I can go back to 2.1.2 and mail delivery continues (even for mails posted in the meantime, i.d. when 2.1.5 was running), after having given me a about a dozen errors of the following type: ------ Jun 26 21:43:27 2004 (1204) lost data files for filebase: 1088195523.0786779+4c5e6189f5cc4ba967f1556ffb911c03c84d6174 ------ If I then go back to bin/update, the process stopps within the same procedure as above, but at an other maillist (see above). An other obervation is, that when doing bin/update, I get errors like the following with some maillists: ------ # bin/update [...] Updating mailing list: XXXX Updating the held requests database. - updating old private mbox file looks like you have a really recent CVS installation... you're either one brave soul, or you already ran me - updating old public mbox file - This list looks like it might have <= b4 list templates around Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/bin/update", line 782, in ? errors = main() File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/bin/update", line 672, in main errors = errors + dolist(listname) File "/usr/pack/mailman-2.1.5-inf/bin/update", line 357, in dolist os.rename(o_tmpl, n_tmpl) OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory # ------ After that, bin/update exits and I have to restart it. The next run it will give the error with an other list. This happens three times, so the fourth time bin/update runs through and finally stopps at the error described at the beginning of this posting. I'm running Python 2.2.2 on a Solaris 9 host. Do you need more information to track down this problem? Please reply to my personal address (fthommen(a)inf.ethz.ch), since I am not member of this list and please be very specific if it comes to coding, as I dont really speak Python. Thanks a lot in advance from me and my 70 maillists :-) frank ---------- Frank Thommen, IT Support Group, D-INFK, ETH Zuerich Mail: fthommen(a)inf.ethz.ch; Phone: +41-1-63 27208 (Mon-Thu) Web: http://www.isg.inf.ethz.ch ----------

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Piping Mailman's HTML through PHP
by John Price July 23, 2004

July 23, 2004

I'm far from a Python guru, so that's why I'm asking the developer's list. I want to integrate the Mailman web pages into the rest of my web page, but everything else is PHP. I've seen lots of posts about using PHP with Mailman, but not really any solutions (if I missed it, please point me in the right direction). With that in mind, I thought I'd try to see how to do it myself. All I really need Mailman to do is after it generates it's HTML to pipe the output through /usr/bin/php before sending it to stdout where apache will get it. I have a solution, but I but there's a better way within Mailman. Right now I moved all the programs in /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin to /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin.orig, then created shell scripts in cgi-bin that look like this: --- start file: listinfo --- #!/bin/sh ../cgi-bin.orig/listinfo | /usr/bin/php --- end file: listinfo --- That's all there is to it. Now I can add PHP directives in Mailman's HTML code, and they get parsed. Is there a better way? Maybe you good folks could add some hooks into later releases so that the user could specify a "filter" program or something that Mailman will pipe all it's HTML output through. That's all that is needed. Thanx for a great program! - John -- "Cat's motto: No matter what you've done wrong, always try to make it look like the dog did it." -- Unknown http://GCFL.net (The Good, Clean Funnies List): Good, clean funnies five times a week, no ads, for free!

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Piping Mailman's HTML through PHP
by J C Lawrence July 22, 2004

July 22, 2004

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:56:46 -0500 John Price <jp_mailman(a)gcfl.net> wrote: > I have a solution, but I but there's a better way within Mailman. SSI and suitable use of CSS can go a lone way. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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CTE "base64" due to UTF-8?
by Michael Heydekamp July 22, 2004

July 22, 2004

Hi, we are encountering the following "problem" with Mailman 2.1.3: When a subscriber sends a message to one of our lists with an UTF-8 encoded body and CTE "8bit", Mailman obviously recodes the body from "8bit" to "base64" before distributing the mail to the subscribers of the respective list. Although this is perfectly legal it does not really make sense and also creates sometimes hassles for users with MUAs which have difficulties with base64 encoded bodies. A qp-encoding would IMO be more appropriate for text/plain bodies, but I would prefer if Mailman would not recode the body at all. Three strange things in this context: 1. In the Pipermail archive, the message appears in its original "8bit" format. 2. We are using the mail<=>news facility of Mailman, and the newsgroup users are also receiving the message in the original "8bit" format. 3. We have one (non-public) admin mailing list where Mailman does *not* recode the body. This particular list is also *not* gated to a newsgroup (and this is the only difference to all of the other lists we are currently aware of). Any idea or suggestion what might be the reason for the recoding and how we could avoid it? Michael

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Somebody can help me ?
by ulisavi＠tin.it July 22, 2004

July 22, 2004

Pardon my english. I'm italian. I would like to allow users of my future sites to create a owner mailing list, by becoming moderator of the list created. With Plesk 7 and Mailman i have the capability to choose a password and to give it to all member of my sites or to all anonymous visitors. With this Password each user can create a New "owner" mailing list and becoming moderator of the mailing list created. The problem is that with this system each user can modify the header and the footer of each message sent and he can choose also to include in the messages sent by mailing list members images and allegates. I will, in fact, that each member can create, in freedom, a "owner mailing list" with this system. It is good. But i hate that each moderator/creator can modify the footer and the header of the messages (pre definite) sent by the owner mailing list created and i do not will that he member insert in the message sent images and allegates but only pure text or external link. I also like to deny the possibility to change the html pages type archive html, member sign up and so on (because i would like to predefine it by myself with my logo and banners). I would like that. ... Each man can create and moderate thier "owner" mailing list created but Not to change the html pages or modify the header and footer of the messages sent and not allow the sending of images or allegates (only text pure and links). Here : http://lists.forum99.com/mailman/create each user with a email address can create a NEW mailing list, by becoming moderotor of the list created. List creator's (authentication) password is : "new" . For example i have just created, using this creator password ("new"), the list : "test22jul04" password of mailing list admin : "tester". http://lists.forum99.com/mailman/admin/test22jul04 password tester The problem is that in the admin panel each administrator can modify "Non-digest options" and "Digest options" (header and footer). He can change the "Content filtering" and he can "Edit the public HTML pages" . THIS IS THE MENU ADMIN : Test22jul04 mailing list administration General Options Section Configuration Categories Other Administrative Activities [General Options] Passwords Language options Membership Management Non-digest options Digest options Privacy options Bounce processing Archiving Options Mail<->News gateways Auto-responder Content filtering Topics Tend to pending moderator requests Go to the general list information page Edit the public HTML pages Go to list archives Logout ----------- IS IT POSSIBLE TO ELIMINATE FROM THE ADMIN MENU THESE VOICES : Non-digest options Digest options Content filtering Edit the public HTML pages And to fix (pre define) it in a configuration file on the server ? On the server i have in the mailgate directory a template directory : /var/mailman/templates/ different file html that i can customize but this general menu is not present. Is it possible to eliminate these voices from the general option admin page ? Or to disable the admin capability to change these 4 voices ? When i have to specify the password in mailman to give it to the user i have to write the command : [root@air421 templates]# /var/mailman/bin/mmsitepass -h This command have also a "list ONLY CREATOR password". The list creator is authorized to create and remove lists, but does not have the total power of the site administrator. Exist a system to disable these voices using this command option ? I have used this option "only creator" but the 4 voices in the menu' continue to exist. .... Somebody can help me to disable these voices from the User Admin Option Menu' ??? Usage: /var/mailman/bin/mmsitepass [options] [password] Options: -c/--listcreator Set the list creator password instead of the site password. The list creator is authorized to create and remove lists, but does not have the total power of the site administrator. -h/--help Print this help message and exit. If password is not given on the command line, it will be prompted for. [root@air421 templates]#

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Limiting send messages
by Nick vd Kloor ＠ FOR-Nation July 20, 2004

July 20, 2004

Hi all, can anyone tell me how I can force mailman to send a specific number of mails at one time? So that it won't send the whole bunge in one time? Thanx in advance, Nick

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Defaults.py and the build process
by Chris Boulter July 19, 2004

July 19, 2004

Hi, I've added some settings to 'Defaults.py.in' in the hope that these settings will be reflected in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py following a configure/make/make install [1]. However, Defaults.py ends up containing only the 'normal' lines, finishing with 'del _'. This happens even if I delete Defaults.py before I run the build. Am I doing something wrong? How does the build process generate Defaults.py? Many thanks, Chris [1] of course, site settings should go in mm_cfg.py. However, I've added some stuff to the standard Mailman code and my new features need some config settings - so these aren't really site settings. -- chris(a)jellybaby.net

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] CTE "base64" due to UTF-8?
by J C Lawrence July 19, 2004

July 19, 2004

On 19 Jul 2004 18:12:00 +0200 Michael Heydekamp <my(a)freexp.de> wrote: > J C Lawrence <claw=40kanga.nu> wrote on 19.07.04: >> On 19 Jul 2004 15:49:00 +0200 Michael Heydekamp <my=40freexp.de> >> wrote: > Something's wrong with your qp decoding. Yeah, I disabled it. >> For MIME digests, yes, but not for text digests. > Of course not, as multipart/digest is part of the MIME specs. In > terms of text digests, I'm not sure what Mailman is doing and what it > should do instead. RFC 1153. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] CTE "base64" due to UTF-8?
by J C Lawrence July 19, 2004

July 19, 2004

On 19 Jul 2004 15:49:00 +0200 Michael Heydekamp <my(a)freexp.de> wrote: > I've never played with digests, but doesn't Mailman produce digests of > type =22multipart/digest=22 with subparts of type =22message/rfc822 > (see RFC2046)? For MIME digests, yes, but not for text digests. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] CTE "base64" due to UTF-8?
by J C Lawrence July 19, 2004

July 19, 2004

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:05:15 +0100 Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham(a)dev.intechnology.co.uk> wrote: > If you do have an 8 bit message, and are trying to send to a non 8 bit > recipient MTA, and will not transcode, you then have a problem. You > can then either just send it (sod you, take this anyway) or bounce it. Which is particularly pernicious in the case of list servers. Given enough 8bit-bouncing MTAs a single post can unsubscribe a poster. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] CTE "base64" due to UTF-8?
by J C Lawrence July 19, 2004

July 19, 2004

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:59:16 -0400 J C Lawrence <J> wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:05:15 +0100 Nigel Metheringham > <Nigel.Metheringham(a)dev.intechnology.co.uk> wrote: >> If you do have an 8 bit message, and are trying to send to a non 8 >> bit recipient MTA, and will not transcode, you then have a problem. >> You can then either just send it (sod you, take this anyway) or >> bounce it. > Which is particularly pernicious in the case of list servers. Given > enough 8bit-bouncing MTAs a single post can unsubscribe a poster. Err, rephrasing so as to actually be correct: Which is particularly pernicious in the cast of list servers. Given an 8bit bouncing MTA upstream of a member (perhaps as a secondary MX) the member can easily find himself unsubscribed without notice. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Alternate user (and admin) interfaces(Ian Bicking)
by J C Lawrence July 18, 2004

July 18, 2004

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:31:23 +1000 Adam Steer <adam.steer(a)alia.org.au> wrote: > How about CMS independence? An option in MM to say 'leave the > interface to some other things, and just do the mail and DB > management'? There's nothing that mandates you use Mailman's web UI. You're free to replace it with anything else that appropriately modifies the various config files. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Alternate user (and admin) interfaces(Ian Bicking)
by Adam Steer July 18, 2004

July 18, 2004

How about CMS independence? An option in MM to say 'leave the interface to some other things, and just do the mail and DB management'? Fil [from rezo.net] - I'm interested in your PHP/Mailman widget - I've never had any success getting PHP and Python to play together, but them I don't really expect too - or just don't know enough... Cheers Adam. -- Adam Steer Web publishing officer Australian Library and Information Association adam.steer(a)alia.org.au http://alia.org.au +61 2 6215 8234 >>> "Felipe Fonseca / izq" <listas(a)hipercortex.com> - 19/7/04 6:56 AM >>> Good. But I don`t like zope that much... f > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:00:05 -0300 (BRT) > Felipe Fonseca </ izq" <listas(a)hipercortex.com>> wrote: > > > I was thinking about a full frontend redesign for discussion lists > > using mailman, perhaps integrated to a CMS like xoops or alike, > > allowing people to: > > ZMailman? _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/adam.steer%40alia…

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Alternate user (and admin) interfaces (Ian Bicking)
by J C Lawrence July 18, 2004

July 18, 2004

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:00:05 -0300 (BRT) Felipe Fonseca </ izq" <listas(a)hipercortex.com>> wrote: > I was thinking about a full frontend redesign for discussion lists > using mailman, perhaps integrated to a CMS like xoops or alike, > allowing people to: ZMailman? -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Pre-select defer/accept/discard/reject for all mails
by Jan-Benedict Glaw July 18, 2004

July 18, 2004

Hi! I'm managing some Mailman based lists and get "some" spam each day. Actually, > 95% of all emails kept for being revised is Spam, and it takes some time to navigate through all of them and click on their "discard" radio button. But changing the default from "defer" to "discard" isn't all that wise either, it may break other people's setup horribly. That is why I thought about having a small table ontop with the four chooses, which fire up a JScript to equally check the radio buttons for all mails in this admindb session. However, I'm not really a Python (nor a JavaScript) hacker, so I've only done that on the emitted HTML code. But maybe you get the idea and can integrate that into Mailman at some day or the other. It would save me quite some time a day:) I'll attach a patch (but only for the HTLM code, if you like the idea, you'll need to figure out where to place that into the .py scripts), the outline is like this: - Have a small JavaScript in the HTLM HEAD area that chooses the appropriate radio box. - Have an additional small FORM (w/o submit button or the like, only to have one more radio button list) to choose defer/accept/reject/discard. - Spend a name for the hugh FORM (containing all moderated emails) to be able to access it from inside the JavaScript. I'm not a JavaScript expert (in fact, I made this by trial and error, so for sure this can be done more elegant:) please don't blame for that... --- mail.html 2004-07-16 23:52:30.000000000 +0200 +++ mail2.html 2004-07-17 14:21:35.000000000 +0200 @@ -4,6 +4,38 @@ <LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="/pictures/mm-icon.png"> <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>Linux Administrative Database</TITLE> +<script language="javascript"> +function StatusChange(offset) { + var extra_elements_start = 1; // In one table of emails, + // there's one input element + // before the table of + // emails: the "Submit" + // button. + var extra_elements_stop = 1; // Also, there's a "Submit" + // button at the end + var elements_per_mail = 13; // There are 13 input-like + // fields per mail. + var nth_element_within_mail = 1;// The what-to-do element + // within one email is the + // 1st element. + var number_of_chooses = 4; // leave, discard, accept, reject + var element_counter; + var element_number_within_email; + var e = document.emails.elements; + + for (element_counter = 0; element_counter < e.length ; element_counter++) { + if (element_counter <= (extra_elements_start - 1)) + continue; + if (element_counter >= (e.length - extra_elements_stop - 1)) + break; + element_number_within_email = (element_counter - extra_elements_start) % elements_per_mail; + if (element_number_within_email >= number_of_chooses) + continue; + if (((element_number_within_email - (nth_element_within_mail - 1)) % number_of_chooses) == offset) + e[element_counter].checked = 1; + } +} +</script> </HEAD> <BODY bgcolor="white"> <h2>Administrative requests for mailing list: <em>Linux</em></h2>This page contains a summary of the current set of administrative @@ -21,7 +53,27 @@ <p>You can also <a href="http://lug-owl.de/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/linux?details=all">view the details</a> of all held postings. -<FORM action="http://lug-owl.de/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/linux" method="POST" > +<FORM name="chooseall"> + <p>However, you can do moderation pre-discard all emails here + and accept some later on: + <table border> + <tr> + <th>Defer</th> + <th>Accept</th> + <th>Reject</th> + <th>Discard</th> + </tr> + <tr> + <td><INPUT name="chooseall" type="RADIO" value="0" onClick="StatusChange(0)"></td> + <td><INPUT name="chooseall" type="RADIO" value="1" onClick="StatusChange(1)"></td> + <td><INPUT name="chooseall" type="RADIO" value="2" onClick="StatusChange(2)"></td> + <td><INPUT name="chooseall" type="RADIO" value="3" onClick="StatusChange(3)"></td> + </tr> + </table> +</FORM> +<hr> + +<FORM name="emails" action="http://lug-owl.de/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/linux" method="POST" > <center><INPUT name="submit" type="SUBMIT" value="Submit All Data" ></center> <table BORDER="0"> <tr> MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw(a)lug-owl.de . +49-172-7608481 "Eine Freie Meinung in einem Freien Kopf | Gegen Zensur | Gegen Krieg fuer einen Freien Staat voll Freier Bürger" | im Internet! | im Irak! ret = do_actions((curr | FREE_SPEECH) & ~(NEW_COPYRIGHT_LAW | DRM | TCPA));

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Alternate user (and admin) interfaces (Ian Bicking)
by Felipe Fonseca / izq July 18, 2004

July 18, 2004

> 2. Alternate user (and admin) interfaces (Ian Bicking) > 3. Re: Alternate user (and admin) interfaces (Fil) > 4. Re: Alternate user (and admin) interfaces (Adam Steer) > 5. Re: Alternate user (and admin) interfaces (Thomas Hochstein) > 6. Relocating a list (Nigel Metheringham) > 7. Re: Relocating a list (Brad Knowles) > > I've been searching around for people's experiences implementing > alternate web interfaces for Mailman, but I've been surprised not to > find much. I was thinking about a full frontend redesign for discussion lists using mailman, perhaps integrated to a CMS like xoops or alike, allowing people to: * post to the mailing list, fetching the username and sender email with the cms user base. * display list archives using the same layout formatting as the rest of a cms-maintained website. * reply to any message from the list * manage mailing lists: display, subscribe, choose digest mode, unsubscribe, from each available list * search inside the archives. All of it with an integrated, object-oriented, interface design; Yeah, guess I'm trying to create a free egrous.com. Anyone interested? I'm not a coder, so can't do much about it. ffff

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membership list count in headers?
by Marc MERLIN July 17, 2004

July 17, 2004

I got a request for adding the membership count of a list as a header of each message posted, in order to remind posters how many people's time they are potentially wasting :) https://mailmanhost/mailman/admin/misc-mv/?VARHELP=nondigest/msg_header doesn't seem to show such a variable Is there on that is hidden, or could that be added to the wish list? Thanks Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f(a)merlins.org for PGP key

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New command-line tool...
by Brad Knowles July 16, 2004

July 16, 2004

Folks, A modified version of the "discard" tool has been created and uploaded to <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=992621&group_id=10…>. I believe that this may be useful for other sites who run command-line-only mailing lists. If there is sufficient interest in this tool and people think that this is useful, I'll be glad to create an entry for it in the FAQ and to make an appropriate announcement on the mailman-users mailing list. Either way, I'd be interested to hear any comments anyone may have regarding this tool. Thanks! -- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles(a)skynet.be> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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RE: [Mailman-Developers] interface dreams
by John.Airey＠rnib.org.uk July 16, 2004

July 16, 2004

> -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:fehwalker@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2004 20:13 > To: Mailman Developers > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] interface dreams > > > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:59:24 +0200, Fil <fil(a)rezo.net> wrote: > > > > However there's something that could be very useful, that > would be "search > > fuzzy matches", for instance if <mr.bean(a)rezo.net> writes > to me saying > > that he needs to be unsubscribed, I can't easily locate his > subscription if > > it's under <bean(a)mail.rezo.net>. Any idea on how to do this? > > The Find Member function on the Membership List admin page supports > regex, which is likely as fuzzy as you'll get without hacking your own > stuff on. If you searched on bean, or even more precisely > bean@.*rezo.net, you should get back either address. > > There's also ~mailman/bin/find_members for site admins, which will do > similar matches across some or all lists on a machine. Useful for > dealing with users who can't read and insist on sending "TAKE ME OFF > YOUR LIST!11!11" messages to majordomo-owner on the 1st of each month. > You mean mailman-owner I hope. I get it all the time. Fortunately we don't have big lists and our biggest list (5000+) just left. However, I suspect they'll be back when they realise that their external service is pants. -- John Airey, BSc (Jt Hons), CNA, RHCE Internet systems support officer, ITCSD, Royal National Institute of the Blind, Bakewell Road, Peterborough PE2 6XU, Tel.: +44 (0) 1733 375299 Fax: +44 (0) 1733 370848 John.Airey(a)rnib.org.uk I don't know which is worse. The makers of soap operas thinking they portray real life or those that watch them thinking it is real life! -- DISCLAIMER: NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from your system. RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However, it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RNIB. RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227 Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk

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interface dreams
by Fil July 15, 2004

July 15, 2004

As a list admin, I dream of a roster interface that would help me go fast when I have 10 people to subscribe and 10 to remove because they don't know better than "Reply"-ing to me. I can make it up with php, with a box for search, another for "add users", another for "remove users", and so on ("change address"). However there's something that could be very useful, that would be "search fuzzy matches", for instance if <mr.bean(a)rezo.net> writes to me saying that he needs to be unsubscribed, I can't easily locate his subscription if it's under <bean(a)mail.rezo.net>. Any idea on how to do this? -- Fil

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] interface dreams
by J C Lawrence July 15, 2004

July 15, 2004

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:59:24 +0200 fil <fil(a)rezo.net> wrote: > However there's something that could be very useful, that would be > "search fuzzy matches", for instance if <mr.bean(a)rezo.net> writes to > me saying that he needs to be unsubscribed, I can't easily locate his > subscription if it's under <bean(a)mail.rezo.net>. Any idea on how to do > this? When I used to do this it was by a grep against list_members ala $ list_members foo | grep -i "^name@.*dom\\.ain\\$" However a few too many cases of name(a)xxx.dom.ain turning out to represent a different human from name(a)yyy.dom.ain persuaded me that this was a Really Bad Idea. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Bug (stop delivery on all lists) in 2.0.14
by Silviu Marin-Caea July 15, 2004

July 15, 2004

Upon receiving a message like bellow (and similar messages) that are virus social engineering without the viral payload, mailman, specifically qrunner, chokes for good, and does not deliver any message that follows, on any list. There's the relevant excerpt from error log bellow. I still have the .msg and .db files that, if moved to /var/lib/mailman/qfiles, can reproduce the error, always. They're here: ftp://ftp.genesys.ro/upload/mailman-error System is SUSE Openexchange Server 8, but it happened on SUSE LINUX 8.0 Professional too, which used mailman 2.0.x. From zoltank67(a)hotmail.com Thu Jun 24 22:42:00 2004 Return-Path: <zoltank67(a)hotmail.com> Delivered-To: networking-request(a)genesys.ro Received: from mail.genesys.ro (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.genesys.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373B96BA85 for <networking-request(a)genesys.ro>; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:42:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.genesys.ro (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 24F906E21E; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:42:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f8.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.8]) by mail.genesys.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D926E21A for <networking-request(a)genesys.ro>; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:41:58 +0300 (EEST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:41:55 -0700 Received: from 80.97.222.9 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:41:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.97.222.9] X-Originating-Email: [zoltank67(a)hotmail.com] X-Sender: zoltank67(a)hotmail.com From: "Keresztes Zoltan" <zoltank67(a)hotmail.com> To: networking-request(a)genesys.ro Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:41:55 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <BAY8-F8Y9IuXZ2y2Fko000034a2(a)hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2004 19:41:55.0660 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E4338C0:01C45A23] X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on mail.genesys.ro X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-BitDefender-Scanner: Clean, Agent: BitDefender POSTFIX 1.5.7 on mail confirm 641541 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ? Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): kids = main(lock) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 253, in main Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): keepqueued = dispose_message(mlist, msg , msgdata) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 157, in dispose_message Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailCommand Handler.py", line 163, in ParseMailCommands Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): splitsubj = string.split(subject) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/python2.2/string.py", line 117, in split Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): return s.split(sep, maxsplit) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): AttributeError : 'NoneType' object has no a ttribute 'split'

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Alternate user (and admin) interfaces
by Adam Steer July 14, 2004

July 14, 2004

have a look at http://lists.alia.org.au It's been alot of work, mainly because I'm not a Python programmer, or really a programmer at all. Our aim was to produce a look-and-feel consistent with the rest of our site, and also try to achieve our advertised levels of HTML/CSS compliance [yeah, still using HTML] - and have the thing integrate with some internal info we keep about our lists. The interface has been made by hacking the templates we use, then digging deeper and making changes to the htmlformatting scripts, and some of the Gui scripts, and more. Our archives are still in the dark ages, but we're messing around with MHonArc to achieve what we want there [and have a config file as long as your arm...] Some people have made patches that allow modification in far better Python than mine, I'm sure [ in fact someone posted here recently about 'skinning mailman']. My aim is to keep chipping away until I understand Mailman well enough to take all the formatting away from Mailman and make it call page components when it needs to. Much more Python study to do! MM 2.1.x seems lots better than 2.0, but it's still not too easy [for a gumby Python hacker] to change the way MM looks. I'm happy to provide more detail for anyone who might be keen to find out what it took. Also, we've got 2.1.5 running on SuSE [8.2 and 9.1]- and we're happy to share config information about getting that done, too. Just a long --config away, really. cheers Adam. -- Adam Steer Web publishing officer Australian Library and Information Association adam.steer(a)alia.org.au http://alia.org.au +61 2 6215 8234 >>> Ian Bicking <ianb(a)colorstudy.com> - 15/7/04 7:07 AM >>> I've been searching around for people's experiences implementing alternate web interfaces for Mailman, but I've been surprised not to find much.

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How to export memberlist to file
by Nick vd Kloor ＠ FOR-Nation July 14, 2004

July 14, 2004

Hi all, not sure anymore if there is a function or parameter to get your whole memberlist in a textfile. Does anyone know? Thanx in advance, Nick

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] How to export memberlist to file
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Nadim Shaikli <shaikli(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > It would be nice if 'list_members' also listed all the other secondary > info to ease exports/imports and/or list moves, You can use with-list for that. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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VERPing: ouch!
by Fil July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

Hi, I think there's a small design flaw with the once-in-a-wile VERPing scheme. My biggest list is 180k subscribers, and I've set up Mailman to VERP once every 10th message. Well, it happened today that the big list was hit by its VERP time, and it's a bit awful - it looks like the list has taken control of Mailman, and no other mail can pass through it. I think it might be wiser to say "every 10th recipient" is VERPed at each sending, than what we have now. Of course, it needs rotating things, or randomizing them, so it's not a two-lines of code I guess. Meanwhile I'll just have to disable VERP for this list (or for the whole server). -- Fil

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] How to export memberlist to file
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:24:11 +0200 Nick vd Kloor <@ FOR-Nation" <nick.vdkloor(a)for-nation.com>> wrote: > Hi all, not sure anymore if there is a function or parameter to get > your whole memberlist in a textfile. Does anyone know? ~/bin/list_members. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:33:43 +0200 fil <fil(a)rezo.net> wrote: >> I thought v2 chunked the queue processing... Hurm, if it doesn't it >> should and that's an easy enough fix. >> From what I read we're in SMTPDirect.py : > def process(mlist, msg, msgdata): > this function does process all recipients (in chunks if not VERP) > consecutively, before exiting. We spent 5 hours in its main loop for > that one message. The painful bit is in Runner.py which appears to linearly process each message queue. The next optimisation would have queue runners forking off every N minutes, with each one opportunistically handling messages in the queue. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:22:26 +0200 fil <fil(a)rezo.net> wrote: > Yes, the MTA *was* twiddling its thumbs, and the system too... and as > Mailman's daemon was sending one VERP msg at a time, it was not > processing the usual incoming stuff, and not delivering the other > lists. v2.x or v1.x? I thought v2 chunked the queue processing... Hurm, if it doesn't it should and that's an easy enough fix. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:28:34 +0200 fil <fil(a)rezo.net> wrote: >> I ask because Chuq Von Rospach has done some calculations on what >> should theoretically happen to your performance if you enable VERP, >> but I don't know of anyone who has actually timed the performance >> difference on large lists. > Usually the sending (mailman to postfix to 90% of users) takes a bit > more than two hours ; yesterday it took about 6 hours. That's an effective delivery rate of ~1,300 deliveries per minute, which is fairly low assuming moderate hardware. ObNote: I found I could sustain 2,400 deliveries per minute with a quick-poke tuned Postfix on a 512Meg RAM PII-333 with separate spindles for spool and log. Some minor efforts at more disciplined tuning suggested that it could sustain 2,800+, but I could never verify that as I just couldn't keep the spool fed fast enough. > But more importantly, the Mailman -> postfix thing took 5 hours > instead of ~ 15 minutes. What system metrics spiked during this time? 160K/5 hours is a delivery rate of less than 600 per minute. That's one message every 10+ seconds which is quite slow. Even if you double that (receipt and transmission) that's only 1,200 per minute which is still dawdling territory. Your MTA should have been able to keep that spool empty while twiddling its thumbs. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:44:22 -0400 Bob Puff <bob(a)nleaudio.com> wrote: > Any FAQ on your "quick-poke" tunings? I don't recall anything off the top of my head that's not in the list archives or the User FAQ (I reported on it at the time in both places IIRC). I've not run Postfix for some years now (I'm currently Exim-everywhere due to UID/GUI control and message rewriting issues) and so would have to re-research the docs to give a more accurate answer. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:26:58 +0200 Brad Knowles <brad.knowles(a)skynet.be> wrote: > I will definitely update the VERP performance entry in the FAQ to > reference your experience. I wouldn't, not yet. The numbers are too far off from reasonable expectation. I'd bet there are other strongly unknown factors which are impeding performance (no local cacheing name server, spool and log on same ATA spindle, something). -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:44:11 +0200 fil <fil(a)rezo.net> wrote: >> Here's the smtp log line: Jul 13 02:05:22 2004 (435) >> <20040712150834.DCA153680BD(a)alan.rezo.net> smtp for 152991 recips, >> completed in 31782.241 seconds > .../... >> In any case, 2 seconds per VERP message for such a big list is too >> costly, > Someone kindly told me this makes only 0.2s /message, not 2 seconds $ calc "152991 / 31782.241" ~4.81372600503532774797 -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] VERPing: ouch!
by J C Lawrence July 13, 2004

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:52:16 +0200 Brad Knowles <brad.knowles(a)skynet.be> wrote: > This is really more of an MTA limitation, although there might be some > things we can do to try to work around it with Mailman. For example, > it might be faster/lower overall load on the server if we had the MTA > do the VERPing for us -- we're pretty sure that's supported by some > MTAs (e.g., at least some versions of Exim), and we know it's faster > for at least some of them (e.g., Exim). s/Exim/QMail/g Exim does have some supports, but not to the degree that QMail does, and not to the performance degree that QMail does. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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AssertionError in 2.1.5
by Tom G. Christensen July 11, 2004

July 11, 2004

Hi, I just hit a bug in 2.1.5 in the 'Confirm subscription request' page. If you press 'Cancel my subscription request' you just get a crash like the one below. Just as an experiment I tried the same thing with my subscription to mailman-developers and the Mailman 2.1.5 at mail.python.org promptly crashed with the same Traceback. Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/export/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/export/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py", line 114, in main subscription_cancel(mlist, doc, cookie) File "/export/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py", line 312, in subscription_cancel userdesc = mlist.pend_confirm(cookie)[1] File "/export/home/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 141, in pend_confirm assert self.Locked() AssertionError Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.3.4 (#1, Jun 2 2004, 10:42:24) [GCC 3.3.2] sys.executable /usr/local/bin/python2.3 sys.prefix /usr/local sys.exec_prefix /usr/local sys.path /usr/local sys.platform sunos5 <environment snipped> -tgc

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>] Re:Bounceremoval parameters default values
by J C Lawrence July 11, 2004

July 11, 2004

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:21:26 -0700 somuchfun <somuchfun(a)atlantismail.com> wrote: > This is not the point here, J.C. Actually, it is very precisely the point. As this message is repetition so I'll likely be ending my participation in this thread with this message. > The important point is the fact that mailman did introduce a new way > of handling bounces without a way to opt-out of this new way. Yup. > Normally every software package that introduces a new way of doing a > certain task (opposed to a complete new functionality) there is an > option to opt-out and continue "the old way" until all proper changes > have been done. I'm sure that Barry et al would have welcomed your patches. I'm also sure that Barry et al would have welcomed funding by you or cPanel to do the appropriate work. Equally I'm sure that Barry et al would have welcomed an email from cPanel mentioning that they don't support plus addressing and could the Mailman README be updated with a more strongly phrased warning? But, none of these things happened. > Take cPanel for example, they have still not gotten around to make the > proper adjustments to their highly complex environment and they are > used hundreds of thousands of times around the world by web hosting > companies. Yup. > Right now people are unsubscribed because of this all over the place > for no apparent reason (from the view of the user). The only way to > not end up in trouble in this environment is to turn off bounce > handling completely in mailman 2.1.5... Or to have not installed/upgraded_to 2.1.5 in the first place. Nobody pointed a gun at their heads. These are free choices, freely made, freely paid for. > ... So looking at this, do you still think it was wise to introduce > VERP bounce probes by default and by force with no choice? Frankly I just don't think it is very important. I see it as a nice-to-have on all scales: "Hey, it would have been nice if the release docs said something a bit more blatant about requiring plus addressing supports in the local MTA. You know, some CAPS or something." "Yeah, you're right that would have been better to put in CAPs or something. But we didn't hide it, it was in the docs." "Oh yeah." "Wanna go get a beer?" "Sure!" -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Major Bug (stop all lists) in mailman 2.0.14
by Silviu Marin-Caea July 8, 2004

July 8, 2004

Upon receiving a message like bellow (and similar messages) that are virus social engineering without the viral payload, mailman, specifically qrunner, chokes for good, and does not deliver any message that follows, on any list. There's the relevant excerpt from error log bellow. I still have the .msg and .db files that, if moved to /var/lib/mailman/qfiles, can reproduce the error, always. They're here: ftp://ftp.genesys.ro/upload/mailman-error System is SUSE Openexchange Server 8, but it happened on SUSE LINUX 8.0 Professional too, which used mailman 2.0.x. From zoltank67(a)hotmail.com Thu Jun 24 22:42:00 2004 Return-Path: <zoltank67(a)hotmail.com> Delivered-To: networking-request(a)genesys.ro Received: from mail.genesys.ro (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.genesys.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373B96BA85 for <networking-request(a)genesys.ro>; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:42:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.genesys.ro (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 24F906E21E; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:42:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f8.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.8]) by mail.genesys.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D926E21A for <networking-request(a)genesys.ro>; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:41:58 +0300 (EEST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:41:55 -0700 Received: from 80.97.222.9 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:41:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [80.97.222.9] X-Originating-Email: [zoltank67(a)hotmail.com] X-Sender: zoltank67(a)hotmail.com From: "Keresztes Zoltan" <zoltank67(a)hotmail.com> To: networking-request(a)genesys.ro Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:41:55 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <BAY8-F8Y9IuXZ2y2Fko000034a2(a)hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2004 19:41:55.0660 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E4338C0:01C45A23] X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on mail.genesys.ro X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-BitDefender-Scanner: Clean, Agent: BitDefender POSTFIX 1.5.7 on mail confirm 641541 _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ? Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): kids = main(lock) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 253, in main Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): keepqueued = dispose_message(mlist, msg , msgdata) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 157, in dispose_message Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailCommand Handler.py", line 163, in ParseMailCommands Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): splitsubj = string.split(subject) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): File "/usr/lib/python2.2/string.py", line 117, in split Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): return s.split(sep, maxsplit) Jun 25 13:18:55 2004 qrunner(9964): AttributeError : 'NoneType' object has no a ttribute 'split'

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Bug error in Send filter option
by Kory Wheatley July 8, 2004

July 8, 2004

I recieve this below error when I setup the non-member messages to be discarded when no action is taken in the send filters option. Any Solution to this? Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 175, in main change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1296, in change_options gui.handleForm(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py", line 510, in handleForm GUIBase.handleForm(self, mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Gui/GUIBase.py", line 158, in handleForm doc.addError( File "/home/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 340, in addError self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( TypeError: not enough arguments for format string ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.1.3 (#1, Apr 9 2002, 22:27:11) [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] sys.executable /usr/local/bin/python sys.prefix /usr sys.exec_prefix /usr sys.path /usr sys.platform linux2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Environment variables: Variable Value DOCUMENT_ROOT /var/www/mailman SERVER_ADDR 134.50.250.14 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING gzip,deflate CONTENT_LENGTH 10956 CONTENT_TYPE application/x-www-form-urlencoded PATH_TRANSLATED /var/www/mailman/irh/privacy/sender REMOTE_ADDR 134.50.249.22 SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.12 OpenSSL/0.9.6b DAV/1.0.3 PHP/4.1.2 mod_perl/1.26 GATEWAY_INTERFACE CGI/1.1 HTTP_COOKIE mailman+admin=280200000069c256ed40732800000033303035313436383336313330616362353433663334386633353436343835626139343036666136; childts+admin=280200000069f756ed40732800000063653036323334393331303563313233646639616231336137626234373830306134663937616466; irh+admin=280200000069d072ed40732800000066616661663263616337383662653834323236333066393861346135613833383637616233663930 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE en-us,en;q=0.5 REMOTE_PORT 1806 SERVER_PORT 80 HTTP_CONNECTION keep-alive HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040614 Firefox/0.8 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 HTTP_ACCEPT text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,video/x-mng,image/png,image/jpeg,image/gif;q=0.2,*/*;q=0.1 REQUEST_URI /mailman/admin/irh/privacy/sender QUERY_STRING SERVER_PROTOCOL HTTP/1.1 HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE 300 HTTP_HOST mm.isu.edu REQUEST_METHOD POST SERVER_SIGNATURE Apache/1.3.27 Server at mm.isu.edu Port 80 SCRIPT_NAME /mailman/admin SERVER_ADMIN wheakory(a)isu.edu SCRIPT_FILENAME /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin PYTHONPATH /home/mailman PATH_INFO /irh/privacy/sender HTTP_REFERER http://mm.isu.edu/mailman/admin/irh/privacy/sender SERVER_NAME mm.isu.edu -- Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him.

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skinning mailman pages...
by Chuq Von Rospach July 6, 2004

July 6, 2004

someone please tell me I'm not crazy. I remember a set of patches that could be added to mailman that allowed defining header/footer for mailman without having to hack everything -- and now, I can't find them. Can someone point them out to me? Or suggest ways to add a site look/feel to mailman without hacking everything? I've been using mod_layout to do this, but I'm looking for other options for future uses...

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Various strange permission errors
by Jim Ramsay July 6, 2004

July 6, 2004

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5, as installed by the Gentoo ebuild, and have a couple questions about some strange permission errors I'm getting: 1 - For some reason the permissions on the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private is drwxr-xr-x, but the /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create is only rwxr-sr-x, so the 'create' web script can't ever create anything in that directory. So, should the permissions on the archive directory be 775, or should the 'create' script be suid? 2 - It looks like nothing poperly sets the permissions on data/aliases(.db) or data/virtual-mailman(.db). I did this by hand, but maybe someone else should do that. 3 - After I 'fixed' the first error here by temporarily setting the permissions on the 'create' script to suid, and after fixing the permissions on the postfix alias files by hand, and creating a list, check_perms says that there is a problem - the archive directories should be mode 02775. Why aren't they? None of these are big problems, and I have work-arounds for all, but they are weird. That is all. -- Jim Ramsay "Me fail English? That's unpossible!"

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Using bouncer engine as standalone
by om＠onlinehome.de July 6, 2004

July 6, 2004

Hi there, Mailman has rather impressive bouncer code part and I would like to use it for my CRM process to identify bounces. Can one run the bouncer code as a standalone engine, and what would be the right way to do it? Is it a wise thing to do? Basically there is a file with all email bounce messages from my customers and as the result I would need a list of all bounced emails addresses. Bouncer.py needs a mailing list as one of its parameteres. Is it trivial to change the code so that it functions just as a filter for a single file? I do not know that much of Python, so it would take too much time for me to see if it doable in a reasonable time. Should you suggest it is doable, I would spend some time playing around with Python and Mailman code. Best regards, Egor

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Re: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Using bouncer engine as standalone
by om＠onlinehome.de July 6, 2004

July 6, 2004

Bryan Bradsby <Bryan.Bradsby(a)capnet.state.tx.us> schrieb am 06.07.2004, 16:39:13: > Challenge Response sux. > > Friends don't let friends do C/R. > > Just say no to C/R. > > Just my opinion. > > Thank you, > -bryan bradsby > ======================================================================== > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 om(a)onlinehome.de wrote: > > > > > Hi there, > > > > Mailman has rather impressive bouncer code part and I would like to use > > it for my CRM process to identify bounces. ... Thank you for your prompt reaction, Bryan. Could you please elaborate a little bit more on how Challenge Response is connected with using Mailman bouncer code to identify bounces in my inbox? Rgrds, Egor

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JTABLE + JDBC
by Sreenivas Ganji July 5, 2004

July 5, 2004

Hi all, I have a problem in JTable. I wrote a simple application which contains JTextArea and JButtons and JTable. It is workling like.... We can issue a sql query in TextArea, once click on fetch button, it will displaying records in Jtable, but if records are more, I implemented a button called Next(JButton). My requirement is if records are more than 25, then it should be display only first 25 records, if click on next button, we can get next 25 records, it should be goes until all records (each time only 25 records). Please let me know, how to fetch and display only few records in JTable from whole recordset. Please............., if any body knows & have ideas, please share with me. Regards, Srini.

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why treat action: delayed in DSN as an unrecognized bounce?
by Brian J. Murrell July 4, 2004

July 4, 2004

I am using MM 2.1.4 and have been getting some "Uncaught bounce notification" messages from it. The MTA is Postfix (a 2.1.0 snapshot as of 20040209) and it is the local MTA (i.e. on the same machine and in the same administrative domain as MM) that is generating the bounces, complete with DSNs. The issue seems to be that the Action: in the DSN is "delayed". These delivery notifications are the "we have been trying for 4 hours and have not been successful but will try for 5 days before giving up" kind of notifications. Looking into the DSN handling code for MM, I see that in DSN.py, the check() method returns "Stop" if action == 'delayed'. The caller (BouncerAPI.py:ScanMessages()) then returns an empty list if the callee returns Stop, which triggers the "unknown bounce" processing. Why is delayed not handled more gracefully than treating it as an unknown bounce type? Or am I totally missing something here? Thanx, b.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>] Re:Bounceremoval parameters default values
by Bob Puff＠NLE July 2, 2004

July 2, 2004

Unless I am missing something here, why don't you just enable verp in your MTA? Postfix, Sendmail, Exim, and Qmail all support it. What's the big deal? Bob Somuchfun wrote: > This is not the point here, J.C. > The important point is the fact that mailman did introduce a new way of > handling bounces without a way to opt-out of this new way. Normally every > software package that introduces a new way of doing a certain task (opposed > to a complete new functionality) there is an option to opt-out and continue > "the old way" until all proper changes have been done. > Take cPanel for example, they have still not gotten around to make the > proper adjustments to their highly complex environment and they are used > hundreds of thousands of times around the world by web hosting companies. > Right now people are unsubscribed because of this all over the place for no > apparent reason (from the view of the user). The only way to not end up in > trouble in this environment is to turn off bounce handling completely in > mailman 2.1.5 > So looking at this, do you still think it was wise to introduce VERP bounce > probes by default and by force with no choice? > > ---------------------------------------- > MANA TANGATA > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: J C Lawrence [mailto:claw@kanga.nu] >>Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:58 PM >>To: John W. Baxter >>Cc: mailman-developers(a)python.org >>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark >><gsstark(a)mit.edu>] Re:Bounceremoval parameters default values >> >>On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:48:21 -0700 >>John W Baxter <jwblist(a)olympus.net> wrote: >> >>>On 7/1/2004 9:57, "J C Lawrence" <claw(a)kanga.nu> wrote: >> >>>>They can of course always gain that same time and more by >> >>simply not >> >>>>upgrading. >> >>>Which is decidedly NOT encouraged by this snippet from Barry's 2.1.5 >>>announcement: >> >>> This version also contains a fix for an exploit that >> >>could allow 3rd >> >>> parties to retrieve member passwords. It is thus highly >> >>recommended >> >>> that all existing sites upgrade to the latest version. >> >>Yup, of such hard choices are upgrades made. >> >>Of course Mailman passwords are also not the most significant >>things in >>the computing universe. >> >>-- >>J C Lawrence >>---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. >>claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? >>http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mailman-Developers mailing list >>Mailman-Developers(a)python.org >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>Unsubscribe: >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/somu >>chfun%40atlantismail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/bob%40nleaudio.com >

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RE: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>] Re:Bounceremoval parameters default values
by Brad Knowles July 2, 2004

July 2, 2004

At 10:21 AM -0700 2004-07-02, Somuchfun wrote: > This is not the point here, J.C. > The important point is the fact that mailman did introduce a new way of > handling bounces without a way to opt-out of this new way. Sure. Just don't upgrade. > Normally every > software package that introduces a new way of doing a certain task (opposed > to a complete new functionality) there is an option to opt-out and continue > "the old way" until all proper changes have been done. Certainly not every package does this. Some do, some don't. If you want to run the latest version of many packages, you might have to upgrade your OS and/or hardware to do that. Even if they aren't issuing patches/fixes for the old version, you have to decide if it's worthwhile to upgrade those other things, in order to get the thing you want. This is called "life". > Take cPanel for example, they have still not gotten around to make the > proper adjustments to their highly complex environment and they are used > hundreds of thousands of times around the world by web hosting companies. > Right now people are unsubscribed because of this all over the place for no > apparent reason (from the view of the user). The only way to not end up in > trouble in this environment is to turn off bounce handling completely in > mailman 2.1.5 Anyone using CPanel with Mailman needs to get their support from CPanel. If they installed a new version of Mailman without getting that from the CPanel folks, and getting it suitably modified to fit their method of working, then they've shot themselves in the foot and they have only themselves to blame. Or do you blame BMW when you swap the engine in your car for the latest and greatest from Mercedes, only to find that things don't work the way you wanted? > So looking at this, do you still think it was wise to introduce VERP bounce > probes by default and by force with no choice? Let's go over this one last time. Repeat after me -- NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO UPGRADE!!! -- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles(a)skynet.be> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>] Re: Bounceremoval parameters default values
by J C Lawrence July 2, 2004

July 2, 2004

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:48:21 -0700 John W Baxter <jwblist(a)olympus.net> wrote: > On 7/1/2004 9:57, "J C Lawrence" <claw(a)kanga.nu> wrote: >> They can of course always gain that same time and more by simply not >> upgrading. > Which is decidedly NOT encouraged by this snippet from Barry's 2.1.5 > announcement: > This version also contains a fix for an exploit that could allow 3rd > parties to retrieve member passwords. It is thus highly recommended > that all existing sites upgrade to the latest version. Yup, of such hard choices are upgrades made. Of course Mailman passwords are also not the most significant things in the computing universe. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Jira text field
by Bev Scott July 2, 2004

July 2, 2004

Does anyone know how to make a text field in mailman read only or how to just display the information in the field. Bev Bev Scott Web Database Portland Public Schools 503-916-2000 4966 bscott(a)pps.k12.or.us _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/bscott%40pps.k12.…

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>] Re: Bounceremoval parameters default values
by J C Lawrence July 1, 2004

July 1, 2004

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:46:47 -0700 somuchfun <somuchfun(a)atlantismail.com> wrote: > J.C., I agree with you that there is never a right time. BUT, when > introducing a new feature (like mailman did with the VERP bounce > probes) it is wise to have the option to turn this feature off > (perhaps until 2.1.6 comes out) to give people time to adjust their > settings and systems. They can of course always gain that same time and more by simply not upgrading. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] pl translation fix
by Brad Knowles July 1, 2004

July 1, 2004

At 12:08 PM +0200 2004-07-01, Pawe½ Go½aszewski wrote: > This is small pl translation fix. Without that message from moderator was > ugly and causes line break in some MUA. See <http://www.list.org/i18n.html> and the language champions for Polish. -- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles(a)skynet.be> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>] Re: Bounceremoval parameters default values
by J C Lawrence July 1, 2004

July 1, 2004

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:04:14 -0700 somuchfun <somuchfun(a)atlantismail.com> wrote: > The issue is not whether it was obvious or not, the issue is that this > new feature cannot even be turned off, just changed to a different > format. Since there are many configurations out there that might not > work with VERP I find introducing a feature that is on by default and > that cannot be turned off causing more harm than doing good. Without disagreeing with your point: At some point Mailman ends up in the position of pushing technical standard adoption (such as the RFC 2369 List-* headers). No matter when the adoption decision is made someone will be unhappy. Plus addressing is not even close to new. I'm aware of no production MTAs that don't support plus-addressing. At what point should Mailman simply assume technical capability on the part of installation sites? Mailman already currently assumes a number of non-default things about the execution space, why not plus-addressing as well? When is the right time? Remember: You don't have to upgrade. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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