Hi! I'm a spoiled young brat who used to have ambitions to be a graphic
designer, did a couple of underground 'zines right around when this
whole "web" thing started.
Anyway, so I got dragged kicking and screaming into the programming side
of things- astute googling would find some posts of me complaining that
there's no good GUI for Apache.
What drew me to mailman back in the mid 90's was the fact that it had a
nice web interface, so I have always thought of mailman as a web app
that happens to handle message processing.
Client side web development is really kind of dreamy; you edit the file,
upload it to the server, see what's changed, lather rinse repeat.
PHP doesn't stray far from this model; most PHP "apps" are "drop this
folder into your DOCHOME and give it DB privs" to set up.
Usually, developing for these apps can be done right from a checkout, or
at the very least once the build process is complete there aren't any
dependencies on it.
I can find no way to get anywhere close to this model in trying to
improve the web UI.
To be clear, my ignorance of make, ant, and all that is pretty much
nonexistent, so I'm hoping my most crucial problems are merely on
account of that ignorance.
* running instance -> checkout issues.
I want to make changes to mailman python objects and get those changes
back into a checkin. The closest I came to a working approach was: 1.)
build mailman. 2.) fiddle settings so that the web UI doesn't interfere
with other mailman install. 3.) remove the Mailman directory and symlink
the Mailman directory from the repository.
This more or less works, but any time I want to add, rename or delete
anything I have to fix all the makefile stuff in order for the branch to
be buildable. I also can't re-run the build process without repeating
the delete/symlink dance.
(also, the HTTPserver has to be restarted on each change... i vaguely
fixed that on my branch, but I have no idea if that made it in elsewhere).
This will partially be mitigated if we move to a distributed source code
model, because I can just maintain all the utterly gerfucked branches I
need to and I won't be cluttering other people's revision logs with all
sorts of SVN modifications.
How do you "round trip" between a test instance and source code?
* Templates bult on compile.
I want to make changes to the templates and then make sure they build
properly in all languages, I have the right i18n strings, etc.
The UI templates seem to be built during compile time; while there is
vast consensus that pre-building templates should change, is there any
way to just rebuild templates from the command line?
There are a bunch of other itches I have, but this is the one that makes
scratching most difficult for me at the moment.
Thanks for listening ;)