Mailman 3 April 2013 - Mailman-Developers

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration
by Stephen J. Turnbull April 24, 2013

April 24, 2013

Abhilash Raj writes: > I made a small list[1] > [1]: https://gist.github.com/maxking/5455462 I strongly recommend that you put this in your proposal on Melange. The mentors will all see it on the mentors' list that way, and you won't get caught short at deadline when Melange crashes.[1] If you want to keep a public copy of your proposal, that's very cool (and if you're accepted, you *must* keep a blog as well as publicly commit your code so you may as well start now IMO). (Speaking for myself) I don't have a problem with you posting it here, especially if you post only excerpts of new and changed content from your proposal (even though that would duplicate the Melange mail for us mentors). However, you might want to see what Barry (as The Big Boss) and the mentors say about posting your proposal, especially more than once a day; others might be more sensitive to an increased amount of mail. Footnotes: [1] Based on past experience, that's *when* Melange crashes, not "if" Melange crashes. :-/

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration
by Richard Wackerbarth April 24, 2013

April 24, 2013

Although there might be a place for the use of OpenPGP for identification of users to the WebUI, such a project would not, in itself, be sufficiently complex for a GSoC project. If you are interested in such an effort, it would need to be combined with other (preferably related) aspects of authentication such as identification of submitted email messages. On Apr 22, 2013, at 6:29 AM, Paul Wise <pabs(a)debian.org> wrote: > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > >> I am a undergrad student interested in OpenPGP integration in mailman as a >> GSOC project this summer. > > Here is a semi-related idea; use OpenPGP instead of passwords for > authentication to the web interface, possibly using monkeysphere: > > http://web.monkeysphere.info/ > > -- > bye, > pabs > > http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rkw%40dataplex.net > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Setting up a VM.
by Stephen J. Turnbull April 23, 2013

April 23, 2013

Chris Cargile writes: > test_not_enough_parameters > (mailman.rest.tests.test_users.TestLogin) Either the test or the code is borked. Last I heard (at the sprint), we didn't know why. Comment out that test so that the rest of the test suite can run.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Setting up a VM.
by Barry Warsaw April 23, 2013

April 23, 2013

On Apr 18, 2013, at 01:10 PM, Chris Cargile wrote: >The cause in both cases seems to stem from failing at the SMTPLayer, where >it shows: [Error98] Address already in use. This almost always means that some runner process from a previous test didn't exit. I've tried to bulletproof the process management in MM3, but sometimes the processes can hang around, keeping ports in use. >"mailman conf" shows that smtp port setting is:25. Remember though that the test infrastructure pushes a small configuration on top of that, which `mailman conf` wouldn't show (that would be an interesting enhancement :). Look at src/mailman/testing/testing.cfg for details. In particular, it uses unprivileged ports for the testing SMTP and LMTP servers (9025 and 9024 respectively). Use ps to find and kill the processes and the ports will free up. Cheers, -Barry

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mailman query
by varun sharma April 22, 2013

April 22, 2013

Hi, While working on postorius "Better User Settings Management" for gsoc i came up with few queries that i need to ask from core developers and barry. 1. Is there a way to filter the object of MailmanUser just like django have. (eg: to get distinct list_ids from mm_user.subscriptions) 2. from where can i get the possible values for each preference of mm_user.preferences. Thanks in advance. Thanks Varun Sharma

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anti-spam filter
by Stephen J. Turnbull April 22, 2013

April 22, 2013

Pratik Sarkar writes: > Is the anti-spam/abuse filter still being seriously considered as a > gsoc project this year? I would say so, yes. Personally, I am fundamentally opposed to it; I think it's wrong in principle (filtering of this kind should be done by the incoming MTA) and inappropriate for the 3.0 release. *But* there is clearly user demand for it, and among the actually signed-up mentors[1] there are at least two who have shown some support for it. OTOH, you should be aware that while nobody has a veto except Barry (Terri has one ex oficio but I doubt she'd exercise it if Barry was in favor), it's likely that projects that all the mentors favor will be ranked higher, and looking at the quality of posts from students so far there is going to be competition for Mailman slots. If you have a solid proposal for anti-spam already worked out (the idea the guy proposed with a Bayesian filter based on word triads comes close to what I'd call solid, see also Terri's post where she proposed a schedule for the kind of additional detail needed), then that's probably your best bet. But if you're looking for a project and you think that anti-spam is cool but that's all the thinking you've done so far, I'd say it's very risky proposal. There are a lot of things we need in UI (both subscriber-oriented and admin-oriented) that are interesting and higher-priority. Footnotes: [1] Terri (org admin), Barry (project lead), Wacky, Pingu, Florian, and me.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration
by Paul Wise April 22, 2013

April 22, 2013

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > I am a undergrad student interested in OpenPGP integration in mailman as a > GSOC project this summer. Here is a semi-related idea; use OpenPGP instead of passwords for authentication to the web interface, possibly using monkeysphere: http://web.monkeysphere.info/ -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration
by Joost van Baal-Ilić April 22, 2013

April 22, 2013

Hi Abhilash Raj, Abhilash Raj raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com schreef: >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor ><dkg at fifthhorseman.net>wrote: >> On 04/06/2013 06:53 PM, Paul Wise wrote: >> > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: >> > >> >> I am a undergrad student interested in OpenPGP integration in mailman >> >> as a GSOC project this summer. >> neat, i'm glad to hear it! Be aware however: it's not an easy task, as Daniel Kahn Gillmor pointed out. >> > I'm not sure about the scope of your project but you may want to >> > review some prior efforts: >> > >> > http://schleuder2.nadir.org/ >> > http://www.synacklabs.net/projects/crypt-ml/ >> >> see also: >> >> http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-pgp-smime/ >> http://sels.ncsa.illinois.edu/ >> >> > My pet favourite feature from the lurker mail archiver is showing >> > photos from OpenPGP keys in the archive pages. >> >Thanks for these links. I am currently going through these projects to >figure out the implementation part of the OpenPGP into mailman. Also trying >to use the mailman-php-smime patch to figure out how it is implemented. The Mailman Secure List Server Patch hasn't been touched since 2010-09. It's a patch for mailman-2.1.15, not for the development branch. However, studying it will surely give you some inspiration. Some code might be reusable too. If you'd like to discuss details of this patch, you're invited to join the list at ssls-dev(a)ulm.ccc.de. I'd be glad to help you dealing with the work. Bye, Joost -- http://mdcc.cx/ x http://ad1810.com/

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] anti-spam filter
by Stephen J. Turnbull April 21, 2013

April 21, 2013

Pratik Sarkar writes: > Okay so what should a gsoc student concentrate on for the project? Writing the proposal!<wink/> > 1.a standardized interface (e.g. MILTER, SMTP/LMTP transport) Very important. In the case of a filter proposal, which one is up to you (both are important to Mailman because milter is more flexible, but it's not available in Exim). > 2.Handler which delegates to external spam filtering packages Much preferred to 3 by pretty much all the Mailman developers who have spoken up. > 3.A totally new spam filter IMHO, unless it includes a facility for sending Black Helicopters to shut down spammers "permanently", don't bother. SpamAssassin and SpamBayes are good, and both can be trained -- it's just that users don't want to go to that much effort. I see very little room for a breakthrough (defined as "clearly going to be at least as good SA or SB, and near zero effort to train to be better") in this area by any of the students who have proposed them: clearly, none of them could be called "experts" on spam or on classifiers yet. (And that matters, both are pretty big subjects that will require a lot of weeks to learn about.) If someone really wants to do this, start now and come back next year with a very precise proposal of how you're going to construct the classifier and why it will be a breakthrough (as defined above). It's worth doing -- not only will you get the GSoC, but any degree of success will make you a "name" in the field.[1] > 4.An interface where users can manually tag "this mail is a spam" (which > remain unfiltered) to improve existing spam database. Define "users". For most of the definitions I can think of, though, it's a TAGUI (They Aren't Gonna Use It), so why bother? One of two exceptions is that I could see an *inverse* to tagging spam, where site owners provide the service of running a trainer over the ham in existing archives. Implementing such a trainer is *very* difficult, however, because it's very likely to result in over-training unless very accurately tuned, and it must account for the bias of having no spam in the training corpus. The other exception would be implementing tagging as part of a moderation interface. This is going to be an even weirder corpus, since it's the boundary of spam and ham. It could easily end up "thrashing", ie, picking up small irrelevant differences, and making detection of both spam and ham worse. So this would require a lot of empirical evidence to convince people to use it in production. (Ie, hard, boring work actually looking at spam.) Footnotes: [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGhEEuE56cY

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Build a mailman3 development virtualmachine with Vagrant and Chef
by Xu Wang April 20, 2013

April 20, 2013

I made a sub-page under development home for how to build a VM: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Build+Mailman3+Virtual+Machine+with+Vagran… I also add a link to this page in the GSoC 2013 page, in Getting Started section. I also removed the section I added in the Mac Mailman setup guide page because I think it dose not belong to that page. Xu Wang On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Xu Wang <xuwang(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Mark. > > I added a section, "Virtual Machine with Vagrant and Chef instructions" > on http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mac+Mailman+development+setup+guide > > Xu Wang > > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > >> Xu Wang wrote: >> >> >I'm not sure I have the permission to edit the wiki page. If anyone with >> >the permission and know how, please feel free to add the link. >> >> >> As it says at the upper left of the wiki home (dashboard) page "to add >> or edit content you must sign up and log in, and you must also request >> write permission for your user name by sending a note to the Mailman >> Steering Committee. (sorry it's the only way to control wiki spam)." >> >> You now have permission. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> >

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