Mailman 3 July 2002 - Mailman-Developers

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Integrating TMDA (was Re: Cute TMDA use)
by J C Lawrence 29 Jul '02

29 Jul '02

On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:49:45 -0600 Jason R Mastaler <Jason> wrote: > On another note, the logical approach IMO is to build this > functionality into Mailman, rather than having to attach TMDA to your > Mailman installation. TMDA includes much more than is relevant for > protecting a mailing list. Given that the TMDA python product carries almost all the needed payload, I wonder if a TMDA-plugin rooted in the TMDA product doesn't make more sense. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Cute TMDA use
by J C Lawrence 29 Jul '02

29 Jul '02

On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:25:33 -0600 Jason R Mastaler <Jason> wrote: > J C Lawrence <claw(a)kanga.nu> writes: >> No more problems with posters from non-subscribed addresses. They >> have a subscription to _GET_ mail and to define an allowed posting >> address. They can (trivially) define additional allowed posting >> addresses by just posting from them and confirming the post to get on >> the whitelist. > Yup. One thing I also do is share an auto-whitelist among all the > lists on my server. So, if claw(a)kanga.nu confirms his post to > tmda-users, he'll instantly be able to post to tmda-workers as well. > This makes things even more transparent for the end-user, particularly > at sites hosting many lists. True. There are cases where I don't want this however, and its proving rather a bitch to make a non-shared whitelist hang off a shared configuration (in my case a shared procmail RC). -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Cute TMDA use
by J C Lawrence 29 Jul '02

29 Jul '02

On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:55:31 -0700 J C Lawrence <J> wrote: > Idle thought: While I don't have time to do this right now, is there any interest here in making a developing and testing list configuration under TMDA which re-writes all poster addresses to dated addresses at the list server, and then forwards mail to those addresses back to the original address? There are messy bits in the details of getting that to work, but it could be interesting, not only for harvesting control but for lists where poster anonymity AND the ability to privately email posters are both desired. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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[ mailman-Bugs-585833 ] Forward posts held for approval
by noreply＠sourceforge.net 27 Jul '02

27 Jul '02

Bugs item #585833, was opened at 2002-07-24 06:22 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i… Category: mail delivery Group: 2.1 beta >Status: Closed Resolution: Fixed Priority: 5 Submitted By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Forward posts held for approval Initial Comment: FWIW I'm using the current cvs. When I forward a mail which was held for approval to my email address (oversized mail in this case) I get the provided traceback in my logs and the mail in shunt q: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-27 12:23 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Cool ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-27 10:29 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 My shunt dir is clean. Thanks a lot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-26 09:52 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 It was a bogus pickle, probably created during the transition of the email package. The fix is simple: x = msg.get_payload() msg.set_payload([x]) I've attached a fixed message pickle below, substitute that for your .pck and see if that works for you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-26 08:15 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 The .pck and .db are attached. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-25 23:33 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 I'm re-opening this bug report. Can you upload the .pck and .db files for the message that won't unshunt? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 13:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 I swear I did restart it :):) More seriously I stop postfix, apache, mailman before upgrading as outlined in the UPGRADING file ... :) I also did verify that ListAdmin.py 2.39 was checked out This time I'll paste the traceback here (it's thrown in logs/error when I try to unshunt the messages): Jul 24 17:17:25 2002 (30049) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in __oneloop self.__onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 154, in __onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 134, in process deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 307, in bulkdeliver msgtext = msg.as_string() File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 99, in as_string g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 81, in flatten self._write(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 109, in _write self._dispatch(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 141, in _dispatch meth(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 283, in _handle_message g.flatten(msg.get_payload(0), unixfrom=0) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 167, in get_payload raise TypeError, i TypeError: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 11:46 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Be sure you "mailmanctl restart" :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 11:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 Oops! After cvs -q up -P -d, The bug stood there with the same traceback. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but don't know what ... :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 10:04 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Fixed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-585833 ] Forward posts held for approval
by noreply＠sourceforge.net 27 Jul '02

27 Jul '02

Bugs item #585833, was opened at 2002-07-24 10:22 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i… Category: mail delivery Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: Fixed Priority: 5 Submitted By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Forward posts held for approval Initial Comment: FWIW I'm using the current cvs. When I forward a mail which was held for approval to my email address (oversized mail in this case) I get the provided traceback in my logs and the mail in shunt q: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-27 14:29 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 My shunt dir is clean. Thanks a lot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-26 13:52 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 It was a bogus pickle, probably created during the transition of the email package. The fix is simple: x = msg.get_payload() msg.set_payload([x]) I've attached a fixed message pickle below, substitute that for your .pck and see if that works for you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-26 12:15 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 The .pck and .db are attached. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-26 03:33 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 I'm re-opening this bug report. Can you upload the .pck and .db files for the message that won't unshunt? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 17:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 I swear I did restart it :):) More seriously I stop postfix, apache, mailman before upgrading as outlined in the UPGRADING file ... :) I also did verify that ListAdmin.py 2.39 was checked out This time I'll paste the traceback here (it's thrown in logs/error when I try to unshunt the messages): Jul 24 17:17:25 2002 (30049) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in __oneloop self.__onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 154, in __onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 134, in process deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 307, in bulkdeliver msgtext = msg.as_string() File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 99, in as_string g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 81, in flatten self._write(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 109, in _write self._dispatch(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 141, in _dispatch meth(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 283, in _handle_message g.flatten(msg.get_payload(0), unixfrom=0) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 167, in get_payload raise TypeError, i TypeError: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 15:46 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Be sure you "mailmanctl restart" :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 15:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 Oops! After cvs -q up -P -d, The bug stood there with the same traceback. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but don't know what ... :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 14:04 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Fixed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i…

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Cute TMDA use
by J C Lawrence 27 Jul '02

27 Jul '02

On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:06:33 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui(a)plaidworks.com> wrote: > On 7/26/02 7:10 PM, "J C Lawrence" <claw(a)kanga.nu> wrote: >>> You know, I was kinda noodling in that direction, but I hadn't >>> figured THIS out. Whoof. >> Quite nice isn't it. It effectively abstracts the concepts of >> getting mail from being able to send mail. > Yes, it also change the paradigm of the subscription to meet the > multi-protocol reality we have today. Precisely. I figured you'd grab that bit and disappear over the horizon. > First, most of us are running lists with increasingly complex > distribution systems. JC has built some nice (and complex) ways to > allow reading and posting off the web. Thanks. Its a bit messy on the server side, but trivial from the user/web side. You get a "Reply" link and then a form with a TEXTAREA containing a properly quoted and attributed message you can type into. It even does The Right Thing with In-Reply-To: and References: headers. > I've been increasingly uncomfortable with the "gaza strip" aspect of > running lists. This seems to me a great way to open those gates a bit > -- safely. And build in some understanding that not everyone who's > "subscribed" is in the subscriber lists. You have the archives, and > the gateways, and the extended populations that are effectively > disenfranchised from posting today. This builds a system that > re-enfranchises them with minimal hassle and minimal risk of opening > the door to the bad guys. Aye, its a big step forward for our side in the cold war. > I think it's a great hack to get back to what we WANT lists to act > like, not what we've been slowly forced to turn them into. I've moved my previous mimefilter stuff under procmail, and have thrown TMDA into the loop with it as well (damned trivial actually, tho a bit messy on file-permissions). After a week or so of testing and play I'll post the recipe here and in the FAQ. Idle thought: Some lists have currency requirements. They discuss current events and really only want messages which are, well, current. A possible TMDA address: 1) Configure your MTA to run all outbound mail deliveries thru a filter which calls `tmda-inject` prior to delivery. For details of how I did this under Exim see: http://mla.libertine.org/tmda-users/200207/msg00308.html http://mla.libertine.org/tmda-users/200207/msg00309.html Doing similar under Postfix should be easy but I've not looked into it. 2) Write an outbound filter for TMDA which rewrites all list posts with a Reply-To: to a dated version of the list address. 3) Write a TMDA inbound filter to bounce/discard all list mail sent to a stale dated address. Result: All replies to the list which are "too old" are bounced/dropped. Currency! -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: Cute TMDA use
by J C Lawrence 27 Jul '02

27 Jul '02

Bounced as below. On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:36:12 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui(a)plaidworks.com> wrote: > Have you sent this to barry? Not yet. Mind if I just bounce the whole message I'm replying to there (and possibly this reply)? > This is GREAT! Thought you might like it. > You know, I was kinda noodling in that direction, but I hadn't figured > THIS out. Whoof. Quite nice isn't it. It effectively abstracts the concepts of getting mail from being able to send mail. You subscribe to be able to get mail from the list (which also inserts same address on the whitelist). The whitelist (which you grow by confirmations) is then the list of addresses which are allowed to post (or reach the moderation interface. Quite distinct. Very 1980s. The TMDA lists are run this way, so I can't claim its original to me. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Daily digests and other issues
by Will Galloway 26 Jul '02

26 Jul '02

Hi: I didn't see anything like this in MM-Users, so I hope it's OK to post here. I admin a ~1000 member outdoor activities list hosted at pair.com ("pairlist"), so I don't get to see the gory stuff, just the web interface. The size threshold trigger for daily digests stopped working last year, and I understand unoffically that it was a server loading issue that caused this. The server in question handles several hundred lists. Since our list has quite a bit of time sensitive info, and variable traffic levels, this feature is very important. Is there any change in the handling of this feature in 2.1.x that would reduce the CPU requirements? Or anything that pair can try to clean up their implementation to fix it? Other stuff: Duplicate and frivolous subscriptions are annoying, and a "discard" option for sub. requests would be much appreciated. Awareness of a pre-existing sub. request from the same address should be implemented. Rejection just confuses legitimate (albeit impatient) subscribers, and encourages people who are messing around to keep trying. In the same vein, the ability to modify/eliminate the default rejection message for posts would avoid antagonizing people who need coaching now and then. If true moderation and customization of all the various messages is forthcoming, then that's ideal. Thanks, Will Galloway

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[ mailman-Bugs-585833 ] Forward posts held for approval
by noreply＠sourceforge.net 26 Jul '02

26 Jul '02

Bugs item #585833, was opened at 2002-07-24 06:22 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i… Category: mail delivery Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: Fixed Priority: 5 Submitted By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Forward posts held for approval Initial Comment: FWIW I'm using the current cvs. When I forward a mail which was held for approval to my email address (oversized mail in this case) I get the provided traceback in my logs and the mail in shunt q: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-26 09:52 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 It was a bogus pickle, probably created during the transition of the email package. The fix is simple: x = msg.get_payload() msg.set_payload([x]) I've attached a fixed message pickle below, substitute that for your .pck and see if that works for you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-26 08:15 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 The .pck and .db are attached. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-25 23:33 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 I'm re-opening this bug report. Can you upload the .pck and .db files for the message that won't unshunt? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 13:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 I swear I did restart it :):) More seriously I stop postfix, apache, mailman before upgrading as outlined in the UPGRADING file ... :) I also did verify that ListAdmin.py 2.39 was checked out This time I'll paste the traceback here (it's thrown in logs/error when I try to unshunt the messages): Jul 24 17:17:25 2002 (30049) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in __oneloop self.__onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 154, in __onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 134, in process deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 307, in bulkdeliver msgtext = msg.as_string() File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 99, in as_string g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 81, in flatten self._write(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 109, in _write self._dispatch(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 141, in _dispatch meth(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 283, in _handle_message g.flatten(msg.get_payload(0), unixfrom=0) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 167, in get_payload raise TypeError, i TypeError: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 11:46 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Be sure you "mailmanctl restart" :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 11:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 Oops! After cvs -q up -P -d, The bug stood there with the same traceback. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but don't know what ... :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 10:04 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Fixed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-585833 ] Forward posts held for approval
by noreply＠sourceforge.net 26 Jul '02

26 Jul '02

Bugs item #585833, was opened at 2002-07-24 10:22 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i… Category: mail delivery Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: Fixed Priority: 5 Submitted By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Forward posts held for approval Initial Comment: FWIW I'm using the current cvs. When I forward a mail which was held for approval to my email address (oversized mail in this case) I get the provided traceback in my logs and the mail in shunt q: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-26 12:15 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 The .pck and .db are attached. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-26 03:33 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 I'm re-opening this bug report. Can you upload the .pck and .db files for the message that won't unshunt? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 17:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 I swear I did restart it :):) More seriously I stop postfix, apache, mailman before upgrading as outlined in the UPGRADING file ... :) I also did verify that ListAdmin.py 2.39 was checked out This time I'll paste the traceback here (it's thrown in logs/error when I try to unshunt the messages): Jul 24 17:17:25 2002 (30049) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in __oneloop self.__onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 154, in __onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 134, in process deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 307, in bulkdeliver msgtext = msg.as_string() File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 99, in as_string g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 81, in flatten self._write(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 109, in _write self._dispatch(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 141, in _dispatch meth(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 283, in _handle_message g.flatten(msg.get_payload(0), unixfrom=0) File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 167, in get_payload raise TypeError, i TypeError: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 15:46 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Be sure you "mailmanctl restart" :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Ousmane Wilane (wilane) Date: 2002-07-24 15:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=47556 Oops! After cvs -q up -P -d, The bug stood there with the same traceback. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but don't know what ... :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-07-24 14:04 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Fixed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=585833&group_i…

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