Mailman 3 May 2012 - Mailman-Developers

before next release: disable backscatter in default installation
by Jo Rhett 07 Nov '22

07 Nov '22

Hi. There's a fairly simple problem here that needs to be addressed. And it's mostly a documentation/install problem. I'm hoping we can get this resolved before the next release. PROBLEM: Mailman comes out of the box ready to backscatter spam people. Yes, it's easy enough to fix. But because it comes stock this way, and is documented to install this way, most people install it to do this. Those of us who work in abuse departments are tired of hearing "well that's how Mailman works". We also object to having to teach people how to fix their mailman installations because it's not documented in the current manual. This is *exactly* like Sendmail 14 years ago. We didn't accept it then, and Sendmail fixed the problem. RESOLUTION: Mailman default installation should not backscatter in a default configuration. 1. Don't create backscatter aliases for subscribe/unsubscribe/etc by default. Nearly everyone uses web based signup. 2. Discard or hold messages from non-subscribers by default. I would think that it would be perfectly reasonable to have documentation on how to enable the 1980s-style -request / -subscribe etc aliases. However this documentation should have a note that this is against the AUP of nearly every network provider, and enabling it will likely cause them to get listed in various blacklists as a backscatter source. FYI: I know that this goes against the instincts of many old-time mailing list advocates here. But after dealing with a 10k/hour backscatter DoS my tolerance for this problem is understandably limited. Yes, it was a sweet day back in the 1980s. I was running a mailing list server and several UUCP gateways at the time, so I remember them well. But those days are past, and we need to deal with the reality of today. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Stephen J. Turnbull 15 Jul '12

15 Jul '12

George Chatzisofroniou writes: > Author > > This model represents an author of the mailing list. It mostly keeps > track of the number of postings and number of threads started. It has > the following fields: > > - authorid – IntegerField AFAIK every Django object has an internal ID. Why do authors need a separate, human-unfriendly "authorid"? > - authormail – CharField Authors are people. They typically have names<wink/> and often multiple email addresses. There may also be other information (organization, etc) that is available from the headers. > - totalmails – IntegerField > - totalthreads – IntegerField > - firstmsgdate – DateTimeField > - lastmsgdate – DateTimeField > > MailingList > > This model counts the total number of postings and threads started. > > - totalmails – IntegerField > - totalthreads – IntegerField longestthread? > > Month > > Year > > Views > > To display the metrics the Django template system will be used. To > output the charts i will create some custom tags. The three following > views will be used: > > - General page – On top, there will be general metrics about total > authors, total mails and total threads and below three charts (AJAX > based) "AJAX based" doesn't belong in the spec; it's an implementation detail. > that represent number of posts per author, number of threads > per author and mailing list’s yearly usage. Even below there will be a > number of charts (equal to the number of years of list’s existence) > that output monthly usage. Why multiple charts? If you can afford a 640x480 chart area, with 4 pixel wide bars you can have 160 months > 13 years in one chart. I personally wouldn't hesitate to go to pixel width bars, which gives you > 53 years. I don't think people will be looking at charts for precision, but rather to get an overview. > At the end, there will be tabular data representing the authors > > - Author page – Each user will have his own page with his own metrics. > > Django Admin page – A ‘Generate’ button will be added to the Django admin page. > Settings > > The Django app should handle the following configuration parameters: > > - Host – Message store data host > - Port – Message store data port > - Masking – A multi-state variable (None, abbreviated, full) for > masking email addresses at the results (we don’t want the emails to be > spammed) (1) If at all possible, this should be inherited from the list configuration (DRY). It's not useful if the addresses are available from the archives or by subscribing to the list. (Actually, a really sophisticated spammer might want to attack by spoofing frequent posters on the assumption they're more trusted and more read, but that seems second-order to me.) (2) It would be preferable if authors could supply nicknames, full names, or avatars for this purpose. > Interface to the Mailman core > > - Metrics class > > - Generate class

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Patrick Ben Koetter 26 Jun '12

26 Jun '12

George, let me throw in some thoughts just to annoy you ;) Like with most statistical data I mostly see the figures being used to give statements on quantity - top poster, number of threads etc. Do you think it would be possible to also make some statements on quality? Let me give an example: Mailing lists are often places where people go to ask for advice. Someone asking usually starts a thread and continually keeps replying. That easily makes a person top poster and might make the same person a thread starter, but number of posts and threads started gives no indication of that persons knowledge (concerning the mailing lists topic). OTOH someone who has been on the list for ages, who replies more often than starting threads and who ends threads often after she has replied might very well be a very knowledgeable person, because she gives the one answer that solves the problem. Do you think it would be possible to deduct such quality oriented statements? p@rick P.S. Do you also plan to deliver a tool that analyzes a mailing list archive in order to gather your statistical data? Having the statistical data might be a good reason for people to upgrade their MMx installation to MM3. * George Chatzisofroniou <sophron(a)latthi.com>: > The following document is the lowest level of my design concept. You > may also read it in my blog [1]. Of course, comments are very welcome. > > -- > Models > > In order to store statistical data, the app will use some Django models: > > Author > > This model represents an author of the mailing list. It mostly keeps > track of the number of postings and number of threads started. It has > the following fields: > > - authorid – IntegerField > - authormail – CharField > - totalmails – IntegerField > - totalthreads – IntegerField > - firstmsgdate – DateTimeField > - lastmsgdate – DateTimeField > > MailingList > > This model counts the total number of postings and threads started. > > - totalmails – IntegerField > - totalthreads – IntegerField > > Month > > This model associates the author and the mailing list with each month. > > - author – ForeignKey > - month – CharField > - postscount – IntegerField > - threadscount – IntegerField > - mailinglist – Boolean (if this is true it corresponds to the whole > mailing list) > > Year > > This model is similar to month. It has a year field instead of a month field. > > Views > > To display the metrics the Django template system will be used. To > output the charts i will create some custom tags. The three following > views will be used: > > - General page – On top, there will be general metrics about total > authors, total mails and total threads and below three charts (AJAX > based) that represent number of posts per author, number of threads > per author and mailing list’s yearly usage. Even below there will be a > number of charts (equal to the number of years of list’s existence) > that output monthly usage. At the end, there will be tabular data > representing the authors of the mailing list along with their number > of posts, number of threads started and the date of their last post. > The user will be able to order the tabular data (alphabetically, > ascending/descending on number of posts, number of threads, date of > last message) by clicking on the table’s headings (Mail, Mails Sent, > Threads Started, Last Message). > > - Author page – Each user will have his own page with his own metrics. > On top, there will be the email of the author, number of posts, number > of threads started and the dates of first and last message. Below > there will be monthly usage charts for each year the user is > subscribed to the mailing list. > Django Admin page – A ‘Generate’ button will be added to the Django admin page. > Settings > > The Django app should handle the following configuration parameters: > > - Host – Message store data host > - Port – Message store data port > - Masking – A multi-state variable (None, abbreviated, full) for > masking email addresses at the results (we don’t want the emails to be > spammed) > > Interface to the Mailman core > > - Metrics class – When a new post is sent, the Metrics class will > receive it through the IArchiver interface. The Posts field of the > Mailing List model (as well as the the related rows on the Month and > Year models) will increase by one. If the author’s email is not in the > database, it will query the mailman core database with the email, grab > the author’s id and a new Author row will be created. Otherwise if the > author is already in the database, the Posts field and the two foreign > fields (Month and Year) will increase by one > > - Generate class – When the ‘Generate’ button on the Admin page is pressed: > * The Django models will be initialized (the metrics will go back to > zero). A progress bar will inform the administrator that the operation > is being processed. > * All the messages of the archive will be parsed by performing a > direct Python call to the IArchiver. Another instance to the IArchiver > will grab any mails sent while the parsing is going on. > * The metrics will be generated from scratch. > * The administrator will be informed with a success message when the > process is over. > > [1]: http://sophron.latthi.com/gsoc-mailman/ > > -- > George Chatzisofroniou > sophron.latthi.com > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/p%40state-of-mind… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- state of mind () http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563

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Speaking about kitties (or archivers)
by Pierre-Yves Chibon 06 Jun '12

06 Jun '12

Meeow miaou* We spoke on IRC about the archiver the other day and I said that I should present here my thoughts about it. So here they are (beware that might be long). First I think we should think about the structure/architecture of things. We have a number of component which need to be archives aware, without being exhaustive I'm thinking about: - the archiver itself (which present the archive (ie: mails and threads) - the NNTP bits which should be able to return emails and/or threads - the stats module which want to give information to the user about the health of the list itself (emails/month, last threads, biggest threads...) - archives retrieval (we probably want to give the user a way to download the archives since the creation of the list/the last year/month) All of these components needs to be aware about the archives. We agreed that the core does not want to know about it. So we have several solutions: - each module becomes an "archiver" wrt to core, meaning each module has its own way to storing the archives (and eventually its own system to do so) - we create a archive-core module which manage the archives and provides an API to access, modify, extend them. Of course, we prefer the second solution :) So we would have the following architecture: mm-core (handles the lists themselves) --send emails to archivers--> archive-core (store the emails and expose them through an API) --> archivers/stats/NNTP The questions are then: - how do we store the emails ? - how do we expose the API ? - how to make it such that it becomes easy to extend ? (ie: the stats module wants to read the db, but probably also to store information on it) Having played with mongodb (HK relies on it atm), I quite like the possibilities it gives us. We can easily store the emails in it, query them and since it is a NoSQL database system extending it becomes also easy. On the other hand, having the archiver-core relying on the same system as the core itself would be nicer from a sysadmin pov. I have not tried to upload archives to a RDBMS and test its speed, but for mongodb the results of the tests are presented at [1]. The challenge will be speed and designing an API which allow each component to do its work. I think it would be nice if we could reach some kind of agreement before the GSoC starts (even if we change our mind later on) to be sure that if we get students their work don't overlap too much. The second point I want to present is with respect to the archiver itself. At the moment we have HyperKitty (HK), the current version: - exposes single emails - exposes single threads - presents the archives for one month or day - allows to search the archives using the sender, subject, content or subject and content - presents a summary of the recent activities on the list (including the evolution of the number of post sent over the last month) I think these are the basis functionality that we would like to see in an archiver. But HK aims at much more, the ultimate goal of HK is to provide a "forum-like" interface to the mailing-lists, with it HK would provide a number of option (social-web like) allowing to "like" or "dislike" a post or a thread, allowing to "+1" someone, allowing to tag the mails or assign them categories. These are all nice feature but, imho, they go beyond what one would want from a basic archiver. So what I would like to propose is to split HK into a sub-project (MiniKitty?) which would provide these basic functionality. We would keep HyperKitty as a more extensive archiver and try to bring HK to its ultimate goal. This will need some more work and time as we will have to make HK speak with core for authentication, find a way to send emails to core/the lists and of course add all the other features (tags, categories...) Comments welcome :) Thanks, Pierre [1] http://blog.pingoured.fr/index.php?post/2012/03/16/Mailman-archives-and-mon… * Hi everyone

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Stephen J. Turnbull 05 Jun '12

05 Jun '12

George Chatzisofroniou writes: > Hello Patrick, > > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter > <p(a)state-of-mind.de> wrote: > > Like with most statistical data I mostly see the figures being > > used to give statements on quantity - top poster, number of > > threads etc. Do you think it would be possible to also make some > > statements on quality? +1 For example, I think this would be really useful for class discussion lists and the like (on the theory that the best way to learn a subject is to teach it to others). > The metrics will primarily extract the activity of a mailing list > and its users. > > It is possible to emphasize on the quality of the posts but i think > this is a different app I don't see why. I would think quality metrics would be usefully presented via the same application as quantity metrics. It would be interesting to correlate quality and quantity, for example. Do you mean to say "this is out of scope of my project?" As much as I'd like to see quality metrics provided, I'd have to agree with you that it's out of scope of your project (maybe you could do one or more quality metrics on a time-permitting basis at the end of the period).

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HyperKitty MongoDB vs PostgreSQL.
by Pierre-Yves Chibon 01 Jun '12

01 Jun '12

Dear all, It has been some time since the last info regarding HyperKitty, but the project has made some progress. I have implemented to database interface that I was presented already a month ago [1]. So now there is a standalone project/library, KittyStore [2] which provides an interface to the database. It defines an interface which can then be implemented for whatever database system you would like. At the moment it covers MongoDB and PostgreSQL. Once I implemented this interface I tried to solve the question of which database system should we primarily focus on. I wrote a small comparison test of the two systems on an RHEL6 system [3] (I still have to publish the results for F17). The difference between the two databases system is not so large (1s for a query that already takes 6 seconds) and there was not any tuning of the servers. So I think the advantage of having only one back-end for mailman and its archive is worth this time difference in the results (which might anyway get even better). Thus we will move forward with PostgreSQL as a back-end for HyperKitty. The good news is that HyperKitty already works fine with PostgreSQL and KittyStore (if you use the correct branch [4]). However, we have to rebuild our test server, so we cannot show you how the latest version works right now. So all is nicely getting in place for Aamir to start working on his project and for HK to get further down the road :) I think that's about all I wanted to say, fire away if you have questions! Best regards, Pierre [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2012-April/022012.html [2] https://github.com/pypingou/kittystore [3] http://blog.pingoured.fr/index.php?post/2012/05/20/PostgreSQL-vs-MongoDB [4] http://bzr.fedorahosted.org/bzr/hyperkitty/rdbms/files

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HyperKitty login
by Stephen J. Turnbull 31 May '12

31 May '12

Aamir Khan writes: > Hi everybody! > > First task I am going to do for my GSoC project is to have login > authentication mechanism for HyperKitty users. I have had discussion with > few mailman developers about it. I am planning to wrap up social_auth into > mm_ui_auth django application. Both postorius and HyperKitty can use this > app for authenticating users. Please explain in somewhat more detail. Not all of us know what "social_auth" is, and since Postorius and HyperKitty are independent apps, presumably there will need to be some design and coordination effort to get everybody on the same page. In the spirit of "DRY" (don't repeat yourself), rather than make long posts here, I suggest that you start a blog or a Wiki page on the Mailman site where you can log (1) your design decisions and (2) any agreements on APIs etc you make with other Mailman developers (or third parties such as maintainers of libraries you use). Then you can simply have a shortcut key and say "I've designed an authentication mechanism for HyperKitty users, which I expect to be extensible for use by Postorius and other Django apps for Mailman. See my blog: http://blogs.example.com/~aamir/gsoc/." George is doing this quite well IMO. Kudos to George! N.B. George is generally copying his blog post to this list. That's OK if you want to do it, but IMO not necessary. (But that's something we will evolve over time, and I defer to Terri's opinion on this kind of thing. This is all just a suggestion.)

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] HyperKitty login
by Florian Fuchs 31 May '12

31 May '12

Hi Aamir, On 05/30/2012 01:45 AM, Aamir Khan wrote: > Hi everybody! > > First task I am going to do for my GSoC project is to have login > authentication mechanism for HyperKitty users. I have had discussion > with few mailman developers about it. I am planning to wrap up > social_auth into mm_ui_auth django application. Both postorius and > HyperKitty can use this app for authenticating users. As you know, Postorius already uses django-social-auth. Implementing it was more or less a configuration issue (settings.py), plus we had to build a login-template (which was pretty trivial). We did look at some other existing solutions before choosing django-social-auth. So far it seems like a good choice. (Although it should be noted, that there was one report about a browserID logged-in user getting logged-out erroneously. But I haven't been able to reproduce this.) Since social-auth has been designed with DRY/re-usability in mind, the important question (at least to me) is: What are the advantages of an mm_ui_auth app wrapper compared to simply using it directly? The main advantage I can think of is shared UI-resources (template, css). But this reduces mm_ui_auth more or less to a "theme only" app (OK, with a few lines of login/logout view code in it). This can make absolute sense, but mainly if both Postorius/HK are OK with sharing the same design for the login-/out pages. I, for one, would be fine with that. (Well, let's see how it looks first. But still... ;-) Cheers, Florian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1006345] Anonymous subscription via confirmation email
by Richard Wackerbarth 30 May '12

30 May '12

On May 30, 2012, at 11:06 AM, Robert Niederreiter wrote: > actually, in postorius you need to be authenticated in order to > subscribe to a list > > "anonymous" refers to the authentication in postorius in this case > > it would be nice to just have subscription form available to the public, > sending a "subscription confirmation" to the entered mail address with a > confirmation link, finally do the list subscription if confirmation link > gets clicked. > > Robert +2 :)

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1006345] [NEW] Anonymous subscription via confirmation email
by Richard Wackerbarth 30 May '12

30 May '12

I think that it is important for this to be controlled an administrative list policy setting. When someone logs in using BrowserID, for example, and then subscribes to a new mailing list, the subscription can be marked as "email confirmed". But if they simply enter an email address on a form, the website need to be able to trigger the issuance of a "request subscription confirmation" email. Richard On May 30, 2012, at 6:21 AM, Robert Niederreiter wrote: > Public bug reported: > > Currently it is not possible to subscribe as anonymous user. > > ** Affects: postorius > Importance: Undecided > Status: New > ** Tags: anonymous confirmation subscription ui

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HyperKitty login
by Aamir Khan 29 May '12

29 May '12

Hi everybody! First task I am going to do for my GSoC project is to have login authentication mechanism for HyperKitty users. I have had discussion with few mailman developers about it. I am planning to wrap up social_auth into mm_ui_auth django application. Both postorius and HyperKitty can use this app for authenticating users. Feel free to suggest if you have any ideas about how login should work in HyperKitty. -- Aamir Khan | 3rd Year | Computer Science & Engineering | IIT Roorkee

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GSoC Status Reports for week 1 due, code expected starting June 4th
by Terri Oda 28 May '12

28 May '12

For those of you who don't keep track, our GSoC students officially started coding on May 21st, so today marks their second week (except for George, who started early). I hope you've all gotten settled in and are getting down to work! I've got two things I need from all of the GSoC students: 1. By tomorrow, you need to write a status report telling us all about your first week (see more detail below) 2. I want ALL of you to make some sort of commit or merge request to the Mailman/Postorius/Hyperkitty repositories by June 4th, so get ready to do that! This first commit to the repository doesn't have to be a big deal. If you don't have any code yet, it's ok if you just check in some directory structure you'll be using later and files with nothing but comments explaining how they'll be used later. The idea is to make sure all of us know how to get your code into the repositories in a useful way, including making sure we all know where to find the appropriate knobs in launchpad. The status report also doesn't have to be huge, but here's what I'd like to see: 1. What did you do in the past week? (May 21-28th) * Include links to any code/documentation you've written. If it's not checked in somewhere yet, check it in! 2. What do you plan to do next week? (May 28-June 4) * This can be a bit sketchy, but feel free to dream big! 3. What, if anything, caused you trouble this week? 4. Do you have any questions that came up? (And these can be things like "why is this directory here?" or "why is it called Postorius, anyhow?" as well as stuff relevant to exactly what you're working on.) 5. Do you have any other important upcoming plans? (This includes reminding us when you have exams coming up, or you have to go to your sister's wedding, or other things that just don't fit under "next week") Expect to be doing weekly reports for most of the summer -- it's an easy way to help give all the mentors and other developers an idea of where you are and when you might need help. Starting next week I may start sending private reminders, but I figured I'd start by telling the whole list so they know to be prepared for your code commits and to expect status reports starting tomorrow.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1004049] [NEW] Held messages show display message body
by Florian Fuchs 25 May '12

25 May '12

On 05/24/2012 07:12 PM, Jeff Marshall wrote: > I would recommend displaying only the subject line like you are now > and having a button that displays the body in a pop-up modal. +1! There should be some kind of fallback for non-JS users, though. Since the Postorius base template detects JS, I suggest a simplfied CSS-only version for non-JS-clients (possibly depending on the :hover or :active state of the button) and the pop-up modal for JS-enabled ones. Florian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1004049] [NEW] Held messages show display message body
by Richard Wackerbarth 25 May '12

25 May '12

How do you think that this should work? Should we always display at least a part of the message as a part of the list? Or should we display only the subject and have a linkage to the body of the message, perhaps as a pop up window? On May 24, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Jeff Marshall wrote: > Public bug reported: > > The Held Messages page on Postorius only shows the subject line of the > messages. It seems like the body of the message will also be important > for reviewing the held message.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 configuration questions and feedback
by Florian Fuchs 24 May '12

24 May '12

Hi Jeff, On 05/22/2012 07:49 PM, Jeff Marshall wrote: > Hey everybody. I've been playing with 3.0.0b1 and Postorius. I have > some questions as well as some initial feedback. I am assuming many > of these are known issues or works-in-progress so I apologize ahead of > time. > > * How do I add another person as an administrator to either a single > list or to my full mailman installation? I don't see this in either > Postorius or the command line tools. As far as Postorius is concerned, this is indeed work in progress. At the moment you can add new superusers (for the full Postorius installation) via the command line from the dev_setup directory: $ python manage.py createsuperuser > * The BrowserID system on Postorius logs me out all the time, even > after just a few page views. I'm constantly having to hit the sign-in > button again. If I am trying to perform an administrative function I > have to do it very quickly after signing in or else I'm logged out > again. (Mac OS X, Chrome). My first guess was that it's a problem with browser privacy settings. So I tried to reproduce the problem with different cookie-settings - session-only, no 3rd party cookies, all cookies allowed. Still everything worked fine. I guess you do allow at least session-based cookies (otherwise you wouldn't have been able to log in in the first place). Is it possible that you got thrown out after you got an error? If so, could you post the exception type displayed in the dump? Does that happen only with browserid or also when you're logged-in with the superuser account created on syncdb?? > * The Held Messages page on Postorius only shows me the subject line > of the messages. It seems like the body of the message will also be > important for reviewing the held message. +1 ...only I think the msg body currently isn't exposed by the MM API (@Barry, can you confirm that?), in which case we would need two bug reports: One for mailman (expose body of held messages) and one for Postorius (show held msg body). > * I get an error dump whenever I accept a held message on Postorius. > The message goes through, though. > > Exception Type: AttributeError > Exception Value: > 'module' object has no attribute 'successful' > Exception Location: > /home/marshman/mailman/postorius/src/postorius/views.py in > accept_held_message, line 405 This is a bug. Feel free to file a bug report on LP. Otherwise I will... ;-) > * Postorius doesn't seem to have confirmation messages after changing > a setting or adding a subscriber. It leaves me uncertain whether my > change or subscriber addition went through. +1 for confirmation messages on settings changes etc. But you should see a confirmation message after subscribing/unsubscribing (displayed just below the page header). > * Postorius could use a page showing the list members. +1 > * Is there a plan for exposing some list traffic stats on the Mailman > API and on Postorius? It would be handy to see # of messages received > today, etc, especially at this stage when I'm trying to figure out > what is working or not. Like Barry said: Luckily, there's a GSOC student working on metrics. > * It might be handy in the Postorius docs to mention how to run a > Django server on a public url; I hadn't used Django before so I was > spinning my wheels for a bit until I dug this up: > > $ python manage.py runserver 0.0.0.0:8000 You should use the django dev server only for testing. Writing a tutorial on how to run Postorius using Apache has been on my todo list for a while. There are a number of tutorials out there on Django/Apache though... (But I should still finally write that thing... ;-) > I'm happy to file tickets on Launchpad but I didn't want to do so > until I understood what is already in progress. There's no reason why you shouldn't. And thanks a lot for your feedback! Florian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius
by Richard Wackerbarth 22 May '12

22 May '12

On May 19, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote: > Personally, I only delete branches only if I'm really sure I won't work > on them any longer. > I'm also pretty sure that when you delete a branch > that has been merged into a project, it's still accessible from the > revision timeline and the bug report, even if it's no longer visible in > your profile's branch list. So once it has been merged into another > branch there's no way of removing it from LP. My interest in deleting a branch is to clean the external namespace so that users are not wasting their time examining branches which are not currently useful. It appears that Launchpad handles this by setting the branch status to "merged". As a result, I don't need to do anything. > I use git a little more often then Bazaar, but I can't say that I am > clearly in favor of one of them. I guess I'm just happy whenever I don't > have to use SVN any more. ;-) My experience goes back to RCS. CVS was an improvement on that. Today's version control systems are much better. My only complaint is that there are too many of them :) My preference for git stems largely from the lack of decent gui tools for bzr on Mac OSX. That, plus the fact that I run a git-based infrastructure and most of the other projects in which I participate use git, makes it an easy choice for me. > I think the workflow used in Launchpad is not necessarily the only way > to use Bazaar. However, I can't say that I have really fully groked the > launchpad way, but here's how I understood it: > > Every project has an owner (a person or group, "Mailman Coders" in our > case). Changes to the trunk can only be made by owners, which is why > nobody else's names ever appear in the revision history. What a waste of display space :) > The way launchpad credits the work of "non-owner" contributers is by stating the > merges and bug fixes in the revision history the way it just happened > with your branch. > > So there's nothing wrong with the way you did it. Just create a new > branch with the changes and then do a merge proposal. You *could* link > the branch to the bug report yourself, just to make sure I don't forget > that before merging it in. I'll try to do so for the next submission. As you note, there are many ways to use a particular tool. "Learning the culture" is part of the contribution task. > You see, those "non-owner" contributions are buried a bit deeply inside > the revision history. And I guess that's why Barry suggested to add a > more obvious "contributed by ..." message to every commit that involves > the work of a non-owner. I prefer the more explicit attribution of git because it makes it much easier to determine "blame". Not that I care about kudos, points, or such, but because I often want to know more about the rationale behind some particular change. (The documentation rarely is adequate in explaining rationale -- and we are all "guilty" in that respect) To do so, I need to know the author > But, as I said: That's just how I understood the LP workflow. I'm sure > there are still things I've missed... My workflow pattern is to create short-lived branches for each bug, Once the bug is closed and merged into trunk, the branch is effectively "dead". Launchpad seems to handle this adequately. >> I'm working on some new underlying base.html files. Fortunately, Django lets me place them directly in my website directory and the template loader then overrides your version. When they are ready for, and get merged into the trunk, I can easily revert to the vendor version. >> >> I think that we should create an otherwise empty "themes" app and place the various templates within that namespace rather than directly in the postorius namespace. What is your opinion? > > I guess it would be a bit confusing to have the default templates in a > completely different app (at least for people who use django regularly). > My feeling is that it's kind of expected for django users to have a > default theme delivered as part of the actual app package. So I would > prefer to deliver the theme as part of postorius as well. > > As far as alternative themes are concerned I have seen some cases where > additional themes were distributed as separate apps As an "installer" mechanism, this seems just fine. And I agree that a default theme should be delivered as a part of the postorius package. However, I am concerned that your implementation exposes "/postorius/" in the URLs and in the template names for the themes. IMHO, all of this design seems to reflect a philosophy based on the idea that the purpose of the website is to run mailing lists. I think that we need to look at it from a different perspective. The use case is that of a company, organization, etc. that has a presence on the 'net. For example, their website is primarily an e-commerce site. The company runs a customer contact mailing list to which individuals can subscribe. Here, the postorius interface is a small subsection of the overall website. But, properly written, the display should appear to be a seamless addition to the content. This implies that "themes" would apply to the whole site and not just the postorius section. As such, I think that we should put the theme definition in a "theme" namespace rather than within the "postorius" namespace. This does not imply that we cannot package one, or more, themes in the postorius app. I suggest that we deliver at least two themes. One would be in the style of "mailman" and the other that of "django". I suggest this because, if we cannot do both easily, it will provide some indication of the usability of our website structure. Richard

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 configuration questions and feedback
by Barry Warsaw 22 May '12

22 May '12

On May 22, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Jeff Marshall wrote: >Hey everybody. I've been playing with 3.0.0b1 and Postorius. I have >some questions as well as some initial feedback. I am assuming many >of these are known issues or works-in-progress so I apologize ahead of >time. Glad you're taking a look Jeff. I'll answer questions about the core and leave Postorius to the web guys. :) >* How do I add another person as an administrator to either a single >list or to my full mailman installation? I don't see this in either >Postorius or the command line tools. This is not exposed in the cli right now. It's certainly not hard to do from the internal API, and in fact would be fairly easily to write as a 'withlist' script. The closes thing right now is the 'members' subcommand, which takes an --add switch. This is still pretty dumb though because it's only capable of adding regular members to a single list. What kind of cli would you want to see? I'm not sure whether this functionality should go in the 'members' subcommand, or a separate subcommand. I'm also not frankly certain that 'members --add' is a very good cli. (Possibly, 'members' should morph into a read-only command, with a separate command for updating.) >* How do I enabling public archiving? I see the archive mentions in >the config files but I'm not finding it clear how to flip it on. Right now, it's a little convoluted. (I'm still trying to get the schema migration branch working, which could change some of this.) The mailman.cfg file is used only to globally enable, disable, or define archivers available to Mailman. Each mailing list itself then has two variables which essentially expose three states: * mlist.archive (bool) - whether the mailing list archives messages at all * mlist.archive_private (bool) - whether archives for the list are public or private. Once the schema migration branch lands, this will be one variable mlist.archive_policy with an enum value, something like ArchivePolicy.never, ArchivePolicy.private, ArchivePolicy.public. Now, what actually happens with these values is currently left up to the individual archivers, with the mail-archive archiver being the only one that looks at mlist.archive_private. If this value is true, it will simply ignore any messages handed to it. None of the other archivers currently do anything with this value. mlist.archive *is* used globally in a few places. It informs whether the List-Archive and Archived-At headers get added, but more importantly, if this value is false, the message will not even get enqueued to the archive runner. >* Is there a plan for exposing some list traffic stats on the Mailman >API and on Postorius? It would be handy to see # of messages received >today, etc, especially at this stage when I'm trying to figure out >what is working or not. There is a summer of code project addressing this. >I'm happy to file tickets on Launchpad but I didn't want to do so >until I understood what is already in progress. That's the state of affairs as regards to the core. Do feel free to file bugs on the cli for adding owners and moderators. Keep in mind that some bits of the archiver infrastructure will change with the schema migration. Please tag bugs with 'mailman3' so they show up on my radar. :) Cheers, -Barry

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Mailman 3 configuration questions and feedback
by Jeff Marshall 22 May '12

22 May '12

Hey everybody. I've been playing with 3.0.0b1 and Postorius. I have some questions as well as some initial feedback. I am assuming many of these are known issues or works-in-progress so I apologize ahead of time. * How do I add another person as an administrator to either a single list or to my full mailman installation? I don't see this in either Postorius or the command line tools. * How do I enabling public archiving? I see the archive mentions in the config files but I'm not finding it clear how to flip it on. * The BrowserID system on Postorius logs me out all the time, even after just a few page views. I'm constantly having to hit the sign-in button again. If I am trying to perform an administrative function I have to do it very quickly after signing in or else I'm logged out again. (Mac OS X, Chrome). * The Held Messages page on Postorius only shows me the subject line of the messages. It seems like the body of the message will also be important for reviewing the held message. * I get an error dump whenever I accept a held message on Postorius. The message goes through, though. Exception Type: AttributeError Exception Value: 'module' object has no attribute 'successful' Exception Location: /home/marshman/mailman/postorius/src/postorius/views.py in accept_held_message, line 405 * Postorius doesn't seem to have confirmation messages after changing a setting or adding a subscriber. It leaves me uncertain whether my change or subscriber addition went through. * Postorius could use a page showing the list members. * Is there a plan for exposing some list traffic stats on the Mailman API and on Postorius? It would be handy to see # of messages received today, etc, especially at this stage when I'm trying to figure out what is working or not. * It might be handy in the Postorius docs to mention how to run a Django server on a public url; I hadn't used Django before so I was spinning my wheels for a bit until I dug this up: $ python manage.py runserver 0.0.0.0:8000 * While attempting to build the docs I get this: $ python setup.py build_sphinx ... ... File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/sphinx/config.py", line 216, in __init__ exec code in config File "/home/marshman/mailman/mailman-3.0.0b1/conf.py", line 54, in <module> from mailman.version import VERSION ImportError: No module named version I'm happy to file tickets on Launchpad but I didn't want to do so until I understood what is already in progress. Thanks Jeff The Mail Archive

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Mailman 2.1.15rc1 released
by Mark Sapiro 18 May '12

18 May '12

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am happy to announce the first release candidate for Mailman 2.1.15. Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.6 is recommended. This release should work with Python 2.7, but has not been tested with that version. This release includes minor security enhancements, new features and bug fixes. See the Changelog at <https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/2.1.15rc1> for more details. Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites. For more information, please see: http://www.list.org http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman Mailman 2.1.15rc1 can be downloaded from https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/ http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/ It is anticipated that the 2.1.15 final release will be on or about June 13. Bugs found between now and then will be fixed if possible, but I hope that most if not all changes between now and June 13 will be i18n updates. Please send any updates to the templates and/or message catalogs in the 2.1.15rc1 release directly to me no later than June 11. - -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQFPs0HiVVuXXpU7hpMRAhEfAKDHkpFORnL9a6ka3RRn4WP8m7EsHgCcCKFi C17WrK2wc2irrXn9Gp2ju8I= =5wvM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by George Chatzisofroniou 17 May '12

17 May '12

The following document is the lowest level of my design concept. You may also read it in my blog [1]. Of course, comments are very welcome. -- Models In order to store statistical data, the app will use some Django models: Author This model represents an author of the mailing list. It mostly keeps track of the number of postings and number of threads started. It has the following fields: - authorid – IntegerField - authormail – CharField - totalmails – IntegerField - totalthreads – IntegerField - firstmsgdate – DateTimeField - lastmsgdate – DateTimeField MailingList This model counts the total number of postings and threads started. - totalmails – IntegerField - totalthreads – IntegerField Month This model associates the author and the mailing list with each month. - author – ForeignKey - month – CharField - postscount – IntegerField - threadscount – IntegerField - mailinglist – Boolean (if this is true it corresponds to the whole mailing list) Year This model is similar to month. It has a year field instead of a month field. Views To display the metrics the Django template system will be used. To output the charts i will create some custom tags. The three following views will be used: - General page – On top, there will be general metrics about total authors, total mails and total threads and below three charts (AJAX based) that represent number of posts per author, number of threads per author and mailing list’s yearly usage. Even below there will be a number of charts (equal to the number of years of list’s existence) that output monthly usage. At the end, there will be tabular data representing the authors of the mailing list along with their number of posts, number of threads started and the date of their last post. The user will be able to order the tabular data (alphabetically, ascending/descending on number of posts, number of threads, date of last message) by clicking on the table’s headings (Mail, Mails Sent, Threads Started, Last Message). - Author page – Each user will have his own page with his own metrics. On top, there will be the email of the author, number of posts, number of threads started and the dates of first and last message. Below there will be monthly usage charts for each year the user is subscribed to the mailing list. Django Admin page – A ‘Generate’ button will be added to the Django admin page. Settings The Django app should handle the following configuration parameters: - Host – Message store data host - Port – Message store data port - Masking – A multi-state variable (None, abbreviated, full) for masking email addresses at the results (we don’t want the emails to be spammed) Interface to the Mailman core - Metrics class – When a new post is sent, the Metrics class will receive it through the IArchiver interface. The Posts field of the Mailing List model (as well as the the related rows on the Month and Year models) will increase by one. If the author’s email is not in the database, it will query the mailman core database with the email, grab the author’s id and a new Author row will be created. Otherwise if the author is already in the database, the Posts field and the two foreign fields (Month and Year) will increase by one - Generate class – When the ‘Generate’ button on the Admin page is pressed: * The Django models will be initialized (the metrics will go back to zero). A progress bar will inform the administrator that the operation is being processed. * All the messages of the archive will be parsed by performing a direct Python call to the IArchiver. Another instance to the IArchiver will grab any mails sent while the parsing is going on. * The metrics will be generated from scratch. * The administrator will be informed with a success message when the process is over. [1]: http://sophron.latthi.com/gsoc-mailman/ -- George Chatzisofroniou sophron.latthi.com

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subscription notification mail body
by Stanisław Findeisen 14 May '12

14 May '12

Hi Subscription notification mail body is also distorted sometimes: I just received one for a new subscriber who used a diacritic in his name. There is '?' (ASCII 0x3F) instead of the character with diacritic. -- http://people.eisenbits.com/~stf/ http://www.eisenbits.com/ OpenPGP: E3D9 C030 88F5 D254 434C 6683 17DD 22A0 8A3B 5CC0

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administrative mail subject lines
by Stanisław Findeisen 13 May '12

13 May '12

Hi! I am running a list. available_languages is set to English (USA) and Polish, and it looks that subject lines of list subscription request (those that I need to approve) e-mails are in those 2 languages. Perhaps this depends on the language the subscribing user has selected. The body is English every time. Moreover, those Polish subject lines are distorted. It looks that they contain some Unicode/whatever but are not encoded at all; and the mail header contains: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like 2 bugs? -- http://people.eisenbits.com/~stf/ http://www.eisenbits.com/ OpenPGP: E3D9 C030 88F5 D254 434C 6683 17DD 22A0 8A3B 5CC0

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Presenting on anti-abuse developments
by Murray S. Kucherawy 10 May '12

10 May '12

> -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-developers-bounces+msk=cloudmark.com(a)python.org [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+msk=cloudmark.com@python.org] On > Behalf Of Murray S. Kucherawy > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 2:59 PM > To: mailman-developers(a)python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Presenting on anti-abuse developments > > Hi all, > > One of the hats I wear these days is technical committee co-chair for > the Messaging Anti-Abuse Working Group (MAAWG). I'm looking to fill > slots for our Berlin (June) and Baltimore (October) conferences. > > If someone on the mailman development team would like to come and speak > about developments and features of Mailman (especially the new version) > that try to deal with abuse mitigation issues, please contact me off- > list. I have a request in to the executive director to find out what > support we offer to speakers in terms of expenses, etc., so I'll pass > that on once I have it to anyone that replies. I'd like to repeat this invitation. We've filled our slots for Berlin, but I have three available for Baltimore and I think any information you'd like to share on anti-abuse measures going into Mailman v3 would be of great interest. The slots are an hour long each. If you don't think you could fill that time, I can possibly pair you up with another half-session. If you'd like to make a proposal, feel free to say so here or off-list. M. S. Kucherawy MAAWG Technical Co-chair, Messaging

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by George Chatzisofroniou 09 May '12

09 May '12

Hello, I'm posting some additional details of my outline for this week. For an easier reading please read it in my blog [1]. -- Following a “top-down design” methodology, i came up with additional detail of my design concept. What information is stored? As i have already mentioned the information is stored in Django models. Author This model represents an author of the mailing list. It mostly keeps track of the number of postings and number of threads started. It has the following fields: mail – CharField (Mail address of the author) totalmails – IntegerField totalthreads – IntegerField firstmsgdate – DateTimeField lastmsgdate – DateTimeField MailingList This model counts the total number of postings and threads started. totalmails – IntegerField totalthreads – IntegerField Month This model associates the author and the mailing list with each month. author – ForeignKey month – CharField postscount – IntegerField threadscount – IntegerField mailinglist – Boolean (if this is true it corresponds to the whole mailing list) Year This model is similar to month. It has a year field instead of a month field. What happens when a new email is posted to the list? - The IArchiver interface will grab the email and send it to the Metrics class. - The Metrics class will update the models: * If the author is sending to the mailing list for the first time, A new Author row will be created to the database. Otherwise, the Posts field will increase by one. - Also, the corresponding row of the two foreign fields (Month and Year) will also increase by one. * The Posts field of the Mailing List model (as well as the the related rows on the Month and Year models) will increase by one. What happens when a user requests the Metrics page? Django will generate a page based on the current models that outputs: - On top, general metrics about total authors, total mails and total threads, based on the MailingList model and below some charts (AJAX based) that represents this information - The authors of the mailing list ordered by the number of their total posts, after the general metrics. Each user will correspond to a more specific page with information like date of first and last message on top and a chart on his overall activity below. What will happen if the app is installed after an existing archive or something crashes on the system? How do the metrics are being recovered? For this case there should be a special ‘Generate’ button in the admin page. When this button is pressed, the class ‘Generate’ will be triggered and: - The Django models will be initialized (the metrics will go back to zero). A progress bar will inform the administrator that the operation is being held. - All the messages of the archive will be parsed by performing a direct Python call to the IArchiver. Another instance to the IArchiver will grab any mails sent while the parsing is going on and store them to a text file. - The metrics will be generated from scratch. - The mails stored to the text file will be added to the metrics - The administrator will be informed with a success message when the process is over. -- [1]: http://sophron.latthi.com/gsoc-mailman/?p=27 -- George Chatzisofroniou sophron.latthi.com

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Barry Warsaw 06 May '12

06 May '12

On May 03, 2012, at 02:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou wrote: >Interface to the MM core > >The app needs to interact with the Mailman core. I think the best idea >is to implement a message bus that will send a notification every time >a message is sent (the same way an archiver works). Based on this >notification -which will carry the information about the sent message- >the app will be ready to update the counts. > >Although, in some cases (eg the app is installed after an existing >archive or there was an unexpected crash), the message bus should >deliver (triggered by a button) more than one notifications (for the >whole archive) to the app in order to initialize/recover the metrics. >In those cases, the models will be initialized and the generation of >the metrics will start over. Do you know exactly what kind of information you need? The suggestion to use the IArchiver interface is convenient, but might not tell you much other than who posted what to which list on what date. It won't tell you things like the number of recipients, how long that message took to deliver, if there were any failures, etc. The core does know this, and in fact logs it, but all you get at the IArchiver interface is the posted message. It would certainly be possible to hook in a zope.event notification with those metrics for each successfully posted message. From there, a plugin could register a subscriber that put the event data on a message bus. Or you could grep the logs. :) Anyway, I think it would be useful to improve the support for this in the core. Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by Patrick Ben Koetter 05 May '12

05 May '12

* David <dave(a)fiteyes.com>: > On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry(a)list.org> wrote: > > > On May 04, 2012, at 02:10 PM, David wrote: > > > > Now start up Mailman, your MTA > > > Good up to that point. What is the method for generating aliases for > Postfix in Mailman 3? This has changed im MM3. Postfix now delivers ML mails to MM3 via LMTP. -> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process -- state of mind () http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Geoff Shang 05 May '12

05 May '12

On Fri, 4 May 2012, George Chatzisofroniou wrote: >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou >> <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: >> >> I don't know how feasible it would be to implement, but if you're >> willing to use AJAX, you could simply build up bar and line charts on >> the fly, adding "slices" of say 5 users at a time on the right side of >> the chart in progress. That might be cool. It could be set in a >> "viewport" and scrolled if it gets too big for the viewport. > > Yes, AJAX can do the job here. I will implement the AJAX bar as you > described, although i think it's better to primarily have a > non-Javascript output. I would just like to restate my plea for the ability to manage Mailman without needing javascript. Note that I'm not saying don't use any, I'm merely asking for it to be possible to use without it. I use lynx as my primary browser, and while general web surfing can be a bit tricky these days, it's very quick and useful for doing admin-type things, and I for one would like to be able to continue to do so. Certainly I have no problems using Mailman 2'.1's interface with lynx, and have been doing so for many years. If my memory serves me correctly, this was generally felt to be a reasonable request when I first mentioned it. I'm sure it's in the archives somewhere. Geoff.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by Richard Wackerbarth 05 May '12

05 May '12

> I don't have a dev_setup directory. Also, I want to start the Web GUI on > port 80 for public access via apache. > > The following page is empty: > How to get Postorius running on Apache and mod_wsgi > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/How+to+get+Postorius+running+on+Apache+and… David, Postorius is just a Django-based website that communicates with MM3. To deploy it, find, and follow, the directions which apply to any website powered by Django. However, I should warn you that Postorius is not as far along in its development as is the core parts that handle mail. In fact, at this time, there are so many things missing that you will be disappointed if you attempt to make the interface publicly visible. Perhaps it is premature for you to attempt to work with this early development release. Richard

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by Barry Warsaw 04 May '12

04 May '12

On May 04, 2012, at 02:10 PM, David wrote: >Next Questions: >1. what are the first tests I should perform after starting mailman? Try creating a mailing list from the command line: $ mailman create -d mylist(a)example.com Subscribe some addresses to mylist. Edit a file with a list of email addresses and names using one of these formats, one entry per line: anne(a)example.com (Anne Person) Bart Person <bart(a)example.com> then run $ mailman members -a filename.txt mylist(a)example.com Now start up Mailman, your MTA and send a message to mylist(a)example.com. All the members you just added should get a copy. Check your MTA logs and Mailman's own logs for details or problems. Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by David 04 May '12

04 May '12

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Next Questions: > 1. what are the first tests I should perform after starting mailman? > 2. a tutorial for setting up Posterious? > > Following this guide: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI… I did these steps: wget http://www.djangoproject.com/download/1.4/tarball/ -O Django-1.4.tar.gz tar xzvf Django-1.4.tar.gz *Question*: could I have instead used # apt-get install python-django python-django-social-auth wget https://launchpad.net/postorius/trunk/1.0.0a1/+download/postorius-1.0.0a.ta… tar xf postorius-1.0.0a.tar.gz source /opt/mailman3/bin/activate /opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# mailman start cd Django-1.4 sudo python setup.py install # cd postorius/ sudo python setup.py develop *Question*: How do I test that these steps have worked so far? Next, the guide ( http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI…) mentions: > Start the development server > $ cd dev_setup > $ python manage.py syncdb > $ python manage.py runserver > > The last command will start the dev server on http://localhost:8000 > I don't have a dev_setup directory. Also, I want to start the Web GUI on port 80 for public access via apache. The following page is empty: How to get Postorius running on Apache and mod_wsgi http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/How+to+get+Postorius+running+on+Apache+and…

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by David 04 May '12

04 May '12

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > > I also came across this useful tutorial: > Python Ecosystem - An Introduction > http://mirnazim.org/writings/python-ecosystem-introduction/ > Now I found this too: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/mailman3+in+virtualenv - Added by Toshio Kuratomi<http://wiki.list.org/display/%7Etoshio@fedoraproject.org>, last edited by Toshio Kuratomi<http://wiki.list.org/display/%7Etoshio@fedoraproject.org>on Mar 12, 2012 <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/mailman3+in+virtualenv#page-metadata-start> * Download all sources by bzr branching:: - lp:mailman - lp:mailmanweb - lp:mailman.client - lp:django_dev_setup - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~flo-fuchs/mailmanweb/django_dev_setup/ * Create virtualenv and install django $ virtualenv mm3 $ cd mm3 $ source bin/activate $ easy_install django * Import mailman3 sources $ cp ~/path/to/source/downloaded . * Build mailman3: $ cd mailman $ python bootstrap.py $ bin/buildout $ bin/test ## Some seems to be failing * Start Mailman: $ bin/mailman start $ cd .. # Ran into this error when running with sqlite: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/246867 Changed to postgres according to docs in DATABASE.rst * Install mailman client $ cd mailman.client $ python setup.py develop $ cd .. * Install the mailman web $ cd mailmanweb $ python setup.py develop $ cd .. * Start the project $ cd django_dev_setup $ python manage.py syncdb $ python manage.py runserver

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by Barry Warsaw 04 May '12

04 May '12

On May 03, 2012, at 09:20 PM, David wrote: >After a full day of stuff like this: >error: Installed distribution zope.interface 3.6.1 conflicts with >requirement zope.interface>=3.8.0 >... I need a good tutorial on setting up the development environment, >including whatever related tools are needed, to build and install Mailman >3.0. Google hasn't turned up anything very helpful yet. I appreciate any >recommendations. For me, it depends on whether you want to develop mm3 or install it. If you're going to develop it (i.e. fix bugs, work on features, etc), then it's best to use the buildout infrastructure. This is mainly because the test suite is more or less tied to buildout at the moment. So the steps to build a development environment would be: $ python bootstrap.py $ bin/buildout You'll need an internet connection so buildout can download all the stuff you need from the Cheeseshop. Once you've done that, look in bin/ for other commands you can run, such as * `bin/test` to run the test suite, or parts of it * `bin/py` to give you a Python interpreter with the 'mailman' namespace accessible, but not loaded, and the system not initialized * `bin/mailman shell` to give you an interpreter prompt with the basic system initialized (i.e. database, Zope component architecture, loggers, etc.) If instead you want to run Mailman 3, I recommend using virtualenv and skipping buildout. E.g. $ virtualenv /some/path $ source /some/path/bin/activate $ python setup.py install Now you can run `mailman info` to get some basic information about how your system is configured, `mailman start` to start the system, etc. I do recommend creating an etc/mailman.cfg to customize various aspects of Mailman before you start. Take a look at src/mailman/config/schema.cfg and .../mailman.cfg for the default settings. >BTW, is Python 3 recommended for Mailman 3? I'm using 2.7 atm. Mailman 3 is not compatible with Python 3 right now. As soon as our dependency stack is available for Python 3, I plan on porting Mailman 3 to it. That is very unlikely to happen until after 3.0 is released. For now, you can use Python 2.6 or 2.7. Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no var directory created during install
by Barry Warsaw 04 May '12

04 May '12

On May 03, 2012, at 02:49 PM, David wrote: >I installed it but I didn't get a var directory at all. (On the chance that >it is created only after starting Mailman the first time, I tried to start >it but that didn't work either.) The last line of the installation output Correct. The var directory (and database, etc.) don't get created until the first time Mailman "starts", but my recommendation is to run $ bin/mailman info to get that initial file system layout, including the var dir. You might want to create your mailman.cfg file first though. After you've run the info command and seen where it's putting things, adjust your mailman.cfg file accordingly. When you're happy with it, then you can run 'start' to get the runners going. Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Stephen J. Turnbull 04 May '12

04 May '12

George Chatzisofroniou writes: > > It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate > > of monthly data? This would allow years to start with arbitrary > > months without too much redundancy. > > Generating the year views from monthly data is some more calculations > while displaying the metrics. That's why they should be stored > somewhere. OK, but these are pretty cheap calculations if I understand Django's design correctly. Which design do you think is simpler, in the context of your overall plan?

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Richard Wackerbarth 04 May '12

04 May '12

Steve, I will take the blame for any misunderstanding in this area. The GSoC calendar is based on the assumption that the students will have completed their spring academic work prior to the serious coding phase. Since conditions in Greece have delayed George's academic year, his "spring" final exams will now occur during the summer. I suggested that, in order to meet his mid-term goals in a timely fashion, he might expend some extra hours now, hopefully be ready to start coding a little early, and then be able to take a planned period of reduced effort during his finals. I am not, in any manner, suggesting that he skip any steps in the process. Richard > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou > <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: > >> I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start >> writing code on the bonding period, > > It's up to your coding mentors, but it's generally not a good idea to > try to move up the coding stage by too much. Make sure you have a > clear spec before you start coding anything, and at least a rough > sketch of a design. Without those two pieces, there's no standard to > evaluate progress, or whether your code is doing the right thing. > >> so i can have more time during my >> university’s exams (starting on half of June). > > I'd say just take the time as needed, after negotiating with your mentors.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by George Chatzisofroniou 04 May '12

04 May '12

Hello Stephen, > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou > <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: > >> I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start >> writing code on the bonding period, > > It's up to your coding mentors, but it's generally not a good idea to > try to move up the coding stage by too much. Make sure you have a > clear spec before you start coding anything, and at least a rough > sketch of a design. Without those two pieces, there's no standard to > evaluate progress, or whether your code is doing the right thing. > As wacky mentioned i'm not planning to skip any step of the process. The idea is to press myself a bit more now, so i can have some more time to study later. I should have explained myself better. >> so i can have more time during my >> university’s exams (starting on half of June). > > I'd say just take the time as needed, after negotiating with your mentors. > >> Settings >> >> The Django app should handle some configuration parameters, like: >> >> - Maximum number of the subscribers of a mailing list the user wants >> to be shown in the charts > > I don't know how feasible it would be to implement, but if you're > willing to use AJAX, you could simply build up bar and line charts on > the fly, adding "slices" of say 5 users at a time on the right side of > the chart in progress. That might be cool. It could be set in a > "viewport" and scrolled if it gets too big for the viewport. Yes, AJAX can do the job here. I will implement the AJAX bar as you described, although i think it's better to primarily have a non-Javascript output. > > >> - Month – This model will store total posts and threads for each month >> - Year – Similar to month model, this one will store total posts and >> threads for each year > > It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate > of monthly data? This would allow years to start with arbitrary > months without too much redundancy. Generating the year views from monthly data is some more calculations while displaying the metrics. That's why they should be stored somewhere. > >> Interface to the MM core >> >> The app needs to interact with the Mailman core. I think the best idea >> is to implement a message bus that will send a notification every time >> a message is sent (the same way an archiver works). > > Why not just use the iArchiver interface? > > I think it should be possible to have this be a standalone app serving > the list itself, or be hosted by a particular archive, which wouldn't > need to be the list host (or even run by the same organization). Yes, i agree. The iArchiver should be the origin of the interface. Thank you for your feedback, -- George Chatzisofroniou sophron.latthi.com

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up pythondevelopment environment on Ubuntu please
by Mark Sapiro 03 May '12

03 May '12

David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > >BTW, is Python 3 recommended for Mailman 3? No. Mailman 3 does not yet work with Python 3. It requires Python 2.6 or Python 2.7 >I see a bunch of stuff on >virtualenv, but if it is simpler to not user virtualenv and to just have >one version of Python installed, I'll go that direction. It's really up to you. virtualenv will allow you to isolate your Mailman 3 environment from the rest of your system so that, for example, the Django you install as part of Postorius won't conflict with other Django installs, etc ... -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no vardirectory created during install
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:32 AM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > >> David <dave(a)fiteyes.com>wrote: >> > >> >Here's what I did: >> > >> >export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/opt/mailman3/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ >> >/usr/bin/python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/mailman3 >> >> >> That's not the correct incantation. >> >> See src/mailman/docs/START.rst in the distribution tree or see >> <http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL> >> >> I deleted everything and started fresh. After 30 hours of nothing but errors, the statement from the link above finally held true: "you should be done within ~5 minutes" :) Next up: "At this point Mailman will not send nor receive any real emails. But that's fine as long as you only want to work on the components related to the ReST client or the web ui." I actually want to send and receive emails. ;)

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no vardirectory created during install
by Mark Sapiro 03 May '12

03 May '12

David <dave(a)fiteyes.com>wrote: > >Here's what I did: > >export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/opt/mailman3/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ >/usr/bin/python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/mailman3 That's not the correct incantation. See src/mailman/docs/START.rst in the distribution tree or see <http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL> -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

After a full day of stuff like this: error: Installed distribution zope.interface 3.6.1 conflicts with requirement zope.interface>=3.8.0 ... I need a good tutorial on setting up the development environment, including whatever related tools are needed, to build and install Mailman 3.0. Google hasn't turned up anything very helpful yet. I appreciate any recommendations. I keep running across recommendations like this: It could be a Setuptools bug, or an incomplete installation of > Setuptools/Distribute. Hence, I feel the need to start with a clean slate and a really good tutorial on setting up the development environment in Ubuntu 12.04. BTW, is Python 3 recommended for Mailman 3? I'm using 2.7 atm. I plan to use just one version of Python to keep it simple. I see a bunch of stuff on virtualenv, but if it is simpler to not user virtualenv and to just have one version of Python installed, I'll go that direction. Also, in case it is of interest, a lot (but not all) of my problems seem to center around PYTHONPATH. I probably don't have it right yet. And the following step is where I'm stuck: setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". Previously I ran `bin/buildout` and `bin/test -vv` with this result: Total: 383 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors in 40.273 seconds.

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problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no var directory created during install
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>wrote: > > The short answer is "Anywhere, as long as the relative positions of > components are in the same place". Basically, just use "python > setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". > I installed it but I didn't get a var directory at all. (On the chance that it is created only after starting Mailman the first time, I tried to start it but that didn't work either.) The last line of the installation output read: error: None # ls /opt/mailman3/ bin lib Here's what I did: export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/opt/mailman3/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ /usr/bin/python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/mailman3 In src/mailman/config/schema.cfg I have: # Which paths.* file system layout to use. layout: dev In src/mailman/config/mailman.cfg I have: [paths.dev] var_dir: var [paths.fhs] bin_dir: /sbin var_dir: /var/lib/mailman [snip] # bin/mailman info Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/mailman", line 5, in <module> from pkg_resources import load_entry_point File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 2707, in <module> working_set.require(__requires__) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 686, in require needed = self.resolve(parse_requirements(requirements)) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 584, in resolve raise DistributionNotFound(req) pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: restish root@localhost:/opt/mailman3# bin/mailman start Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/mailman", line 5, in <module> from pkg_resources import load_entry_point File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 2707, in <module> working_set.require(__requires__) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 686, in require needed = self.resolve(parse_requirements(requirements)) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 584, in resolve raise DistributionNotFound(req) pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: restish mailman-3.0.0b1-source# ls bin copybump.py dist eggs setup.cfg bootstrap.py COPYING distribute-0.6.8-py2.7.egg MANIFEST.in setup.py build cron distribute-0.6.8.tar.gz parts src buildout.cfg data distribute_setup.py PKG-INFO template.py conf.py develop-eggs distribute_setup.pyc README.rst var

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Stephen J. Turnbull 03 May '12

03 May '12

Hi George, Thanks for the report! A couple of quick comments: On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: > I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start > writing code on the bonding period, It's up to your coding mentors, but it's generally not a good idea to try to move up the coding stage by too much. Make sure you have a clear spec before you start coding anything, and at least a rough sketch of a design. Without those two pieces, there's no standard to evaluate progress, or whether your code is doing the right thing. > so i can have more time during my > university’s exams (starting on half of June). I'd say just take the time as needed, after negotiating with your mentors. > Settings > > The Django app should handle some configuration parameters, like: > > - Maximum number of the subscribers of a mailing list the user wants > to be shown in the charts I don't know how feasible it would be to implement, but if you're willing to use AJAX, you could simply build up bar and line charts on the fly, adding "slices" of say 5 users at a time on the right side of the chart in progress. That might be cool. It could be set in a "viewport" and scrolled if it gets too big for the viewport. > - A multi-state variable (None, abbreviated, full) for masking email > addresses at the results (we don’t want the emails to be spammed) This is pointless if the archives show addresses. So archives and list should coordinate with the chart module on this. I suppose this should be a query to the list config (and maybe per user configs). > - Month – This model will store total posts and threads for each month > - Year – Similar to month model, this one will store total posts and > threads for each year It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate of monthly data? This would allow years to start with arbitrary months without too much redundancy. > Interface to the MM core > > The app needs to interact with the Mailman core. I think the best idea > is to implement a message bus that will send a notification every time > a message is sent (the same way an archiver works). Why not just use the iArchiver interface? I think it should be possible to have this be a standalone app serving the list itself, or be hosted by a particular archive, which wouldn't need to be the list host (or even run by the same organization).

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] where to install Mailman?
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>wrote: > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > > > strictly from a Mailman point of > > view, where should I install Mailman 3.0? > > The short answer is "Anywhere, as long as the relative positions of > components are in the same place". Basically, just use "python > setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". > > > My habit has always been to install my own application in /opt. > > I don't see any reason to vary from that > Don't try to mimic Ubuntu's layout for Mailman 2. > > > Also, would you use a base directory named mailman > > or mailman-3.0.0b1? Thanks > > I personally will be using "mailman3" > > I do think it's important to be careful about the upgrade to 3.1. > The help on this mailing list (and mailman-users) is just phenomenal! Thank you so much!

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] where to install Mailman?
by Stephen J. Turnbull 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > I know this is possibly both a stupid question and one that is subject to > endless debate in the larger scope... but strictly from a Mailman point of > view, where should I install Mailman 3.0? The short answer is "Anywhere, as long as the relative positions of components are in the same place". Basically, just use "python setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". And no, it's not a stupid question. There's an annoying trap that's worth avoiding: mimicking distro layouts (see below). > My habit has always been to install my own application in /opt. I don't see any reason to vary from that, it will just irritate you to some extent, and not help others advise you. The important issue is how things relate to each other under $prefix and in the related "var" hierarchy (where the config files and databases will be kept), and setup.py will handle that. Long experience with Mailman 2 is that if you're installing from source, there won't be conflicts with the distro anyway, and it's easier for all if everybody's layout is "standard". Don't try to mimic Ubuntu's layout for Mailman 2. Distros often have layout policies that fit their tools, but these (and the sensibilities of Mailman developers) vary, so following a distro layout will likely cause yours to vary from the developers and other beta testers (who are an equally important source of advice). > Also, would you use a base directory named mailman > or mailman-3.0.0b1? Thanks I personally will be using "mailman3" as I will be running Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 in parallel for a while. If that doesn't apply to you, IMHO it's a matter of taste whether you use "bare" "mailman" or a name tagged with the version. Keeping older versions in their own installations occasionally saves work in recovering from a configuration error or software defect, but is a continual minor annoyance. I do think it's important to be careful about the upgrade to 3.1. At that time it is likely that many new features will be added, and possibly some backward incompatible changes. If for some reason you want to revert to 3.0, up-to-date backups of the database and configuration files are very important. Whether to use conventional backup copies, VCS, or version-specific installations is a matter of taste IMO. I would use whatever you feel comfortable with.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by Stephen J. Turnbull 02 May '12

02 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:57 AM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Is this the right place for a suggestion on minor documentation changes? > I actually needed build-essential and python-dev packages in addition to > the python package that came with the default Ubuntu install on Linode. Ubuntu is popular, but not that popular that this kind of change will stop here. This is really basic knowledge that IMO is reasonable for our docs to presume (anybody who is installing beta software is going to run into real issues sooner or later). So it isn't a minor change, it's a move in the direction of becoming a site for educating novice sysadmins, and we're going to end up providing similar HOWTOs for RHEL, Debian, ... (hopefully not Gentoo or ArchLinux, of course;-). I don't have an objection to doing that, if somebody wants to put it together. I think it's quite plausible that Mailman 3 will be the first experience for many source-build virgins. But my experience with Emacsen suggests that people who are running into the "Windows-wannabe distros can't build software" issue is better addressed by a separate *set* of *distro-specific* documents (it might be in one file with per-distro sections, of course). Putting this stuff into the quick-start or full install guide is just going to deter novices and annoy experienced sysadmins. Better yet would be a section of the FAQ pointing to a generic site for "So ya wanna be a beta tester" documents, but I suspect that doesn't exist.

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where to install Mailman?
by David 02 May '12

02 May '12

I know this is possibly both a stupid question and one that is subject to endless debate in the larger scope... but strictly from a Mailman point of view, where should I install Mailman 3.0? My habit has always been to install my own application in /opt. If I install from a tarball, I always use /opt. But to make Mailman configuration and setup easier, I think I will deviate from that and install Mailman 3.0 like most of the other people here would do. Can anyone give me a recommendation specifically for Mailman 3.0 on Ubuntu? Also, would you use a base directory named mailman or mailman-3.0.0b1? Thanks

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] no documentation for Mailman 3.0
by Stephen J. Turnbull 02 May '12

02 May '12

This procedure has changed since the alphas but I guess the install doc hasn't been patched yet. python setup.py build_sphinx On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:00 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Build the online docs by running:: > > % bin/docs

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] no documentation for Mailman 3.0
by Mark Sapiro 02 May '12

02 May '12

On 5/2/2012 8:00 PM, David wrote: > Build the online docs by running:: > > % bin/docs Build the docs by installing sphinx (pip instal sphinx) and then running python setup.py build-sphinx See <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/975670> -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by Mark Sapiro 02 May '12

02 May '12

David <dave at fiteyes.com> wrote: > > Is this the right place for a suggestion on minor documentation changes? <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug> Tag it 'mailman3' -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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no documentation for Mailman 3.0
by David 02 May '12

02 May '12

Build the online docs by running:: % bin/docs root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# bin/docs -bash: bin/docs: No such file or directory root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin# ls buildout mailman master onebounce py runner tags test

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by David 02 May '12

02 May '12

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:49 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > >> Anyone have any ideas on this error? It seems I'm missing Python.h. >> >> I'm running Ubuntu 12.04. >> > Is this the right place for a suggestion on minor documentation changes? Building Mailman 3 > ================== > > Mailman 3 is now based on the `zc.buildout`_ infrastructure, which greatly > simplifies building and testing Mailman. > > You do not need anything other than Python ... > I started with a clean install of Ubuntu 12.04 on a new Linode. I actually needed build-essential and python-dev packages in addition to the python package that came with the default Ubuntu install on Linode. # apt-get install build-essential python-dev With those packages, I was able to build and it passed all tests: Total: 383 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors in 40.273 seconds.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by David 02 May '12

02 May '12

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Anyone have any ideas on this error? It seems I'm missing Python.h. > > I'm running Ubuntu 12.04. > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Anyone have any ideas on this error? > > I'm running Ubuntu 12.04. > Oh, I see. It's very common when you search on the right terms. Solution: sudo apt-get install python-dev It's building now.

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Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by David 02 May '12

02 May '12

Anyone have any ideas on this error? It seems I'm missing Python.h. I'm running Ubuntu 12.04. Here's the output of my commands (after running a second time); root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# python bootstrap.py Downloading http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.7/s/setuptools/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# bin/buildout Develop: '/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/.' warning: no files found matching '*.rc' warning: no files found matching '*' under directory '.buildout' warning: no files found matching '*' under directory 'contrib' warning: no previously-included files matching '*.egg-info' found anywhere in distribution no previously-included directories found matching 'src/attic' no previously-included directories found matching 'src/web' no previously-included directories found matching 'parts' Installing interpreter. Getting distribution for 'storm'. storm/cextensions.c:23:20: fatal error: Python.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated. error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1 An error occurred when trying to install storm 0.19. Look above this message for any errors that were output by easy_install. While: Installing interpreter. Getting distribution for 'storm'. Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19 root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# which gcc /usr/bin/gcc root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# which python /usr/bin/python root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# /usr/bin/python --version Python 2.7.3

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[GSoC 2012] Metrics
by George Chatzisofroniou 02 May '12

02 May '12

Hello, I'm sending a report of my progress for the last two weeks (containing an outline of my project). The following report is also posted in my blog [1]. -- The last two weeks i’m into learning the Django web framework in more detail. I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start writing code on the bonding period, so i can have more time during my university’s exams (starting on half of June). Finally, i came up with an outline of my project. Here it is: Settings The Django app should handle some configuration parameters, like: - Maximum number of the subscribers of a mailing list the user wants to be shown in the charts - A multi-state variable (None, abbreviated, full) for masking email addresses at the results (we don’t want the emails to be spammed) Apart from these, some parameters to establish a connection to the message store (such as host or port) will be added. Models In order to store statistical data, the app will use some Django models: - Author – This model will store specific information for each subscriber such as total posts, total threads started, date of last message, subscription date, average of posts sent per day - MailingList – General information about the mailing list will be stored here such as total posts, total threads and two foreign keys pointing the month and year models - Month – This model will store total posts and threads for each month - Year – Similar to month model, this one will store total posts and threads for each year Views To display the metrics some views will be used: - A generic view for the mailing list and the top subscribers - A more detailed page about the participation of a specific subscriber The graphs will be generated using the PyChart library. (Custom tags are the way that the app will embed the graphs) Interface to the MM core The app needs to interact with the Mailman core. I think the best idea is to implement a message bus that will send a notification every time a message is sent (the same way an archiver works). Based on this notification -which will carry the information about the sent message- the app will be ready to update the counts. Although, in some cases (eg the app is installed after an existing archive or there was an unexpected crash), the message bus should deliver (triggered by a button) more than one notifications (for the whole archive) to the app in order to initialize/recover the metrics. In those cases, the models will be initialized and the generation of the metrics will start over. -- Any comments are highly appreciated. [1]: http://sophron.latthi.com/gsoc-mailman/?p=12 -- George Chatzisofroniou sophron.latthi.com

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Password reminders
by Mark Sapiro 01 May '12

01 May '12

Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >Do you folks ever get complaints about password reminders sending passwords in the clear? Yes. >Is there an open bug about that? See, e.g., <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/265179>. >Once a month I get someone nagging at me that this isn't a secure thing, possibly because it's a security-related mailing list (i.e., picky audience). My only choice in the current version is to turn off the reminders altogether. Perhaps it would be possible to add a switch that just turns off the password part? How useful would the rest of it be without the password? You can edit the template for the reminder per <http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9>. Its name is cronpass.txt. Besure to see the note in the FAQ about list and domain specific templates not working for this template. However, the actual entries with the passwords are not built from the template so you'd have to also edit the code in cron/mailpasswds. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Password reminders
by Murray S. Kucherawy 01 May '12

01 May '12

Do you folks ever get complaints about password reminders sending passwords in the clear? Is there an open bug about that? Once a month I get someone nagging at me that this isn't a secure thing, possibly because it's a security-related mailing list (i.e., picky audience). My only choice in the current version is to turn off the reminders altogether. Perhaps it would be possible to add a switch that just turns off the password part? -MSK

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