Mailman 3 February 2015 - Mailman-Developers

before next release: disable backscatter in default installation
by Jo Rhett Nov. 7, 2022

Nov. 7, 2022

Hi. There's a fairly simple problem here that needs to be addressed. And it's mostly a documentation/install problem. I'm hoping we can get this resolved before the next release. PROBLEM: Mailman comes out of the box ready to backscatter spam people. Yes, it's easy enough to fix. But because it comes stock this way, and is documented to install this way, most people install it to do this. Those of us who work in abuse departments are tired of hearing "well that's how Mailman works". We also object to having to teach people how to fix their mailman installations because it's not documented in the current manual. This is *exactly* like Sendmail 14 years ago. We didn't accept it then, and Sendmail fixed the problem. RESOLUTION: Mailman default installation should not backscatter in a default configuration. 1. Don't create backscatter aliases for subscribe/unsubscribe/etc by default. Nearly everyone uses web based signup. 2. Discard or hold messages from non-subscribers by default. I would think that it would be perfectly reasonable to have documentation on how to enable the 1980s-style -request / -subscribe etc aliases. However this documentation should have a note that this is against the AUP of nearly every network provider, and enabling it will likely cause them to get listed in various blacklists as a backscatter source. FYI: I know that this goes against the instincts of many old-time mailing list advocates here. But after dealing with a 10k/hour backscatter DoS my tolerance for this problem is understandably limited. Yes, it was a sweet day back in the 1980s. I was running a mailing list server and several UUCP gateways at the time, so I remember them well. But those days are past, and we need to deal with the reality of today. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MIME footers
by Daniel Kahn Gillmor March 10, 2015

March 10, 2015

Hi Murray-- On Fri 2015-02-27 14:46:40 -0500, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Sorry, by "sign" I meant "add a footer". I probably said "sign" because > this is related to some DKIM work I've been planning, and the morning's > caffeine was already wearing off. :) > Thanks for that detailed answer (and Barry for his followup). It's > precisely what I was looking for. > > How absurd would it be to propose a flag for Mailman that would take your > first case (non-MIME, or single-part text/plain) and convert it to a > multipart/mixed with a child part of the original text/plain, and then > apply the algorithm you have? I'm not one to make any decisions for mailman, but this sounds pretty reasonable to me. In fact, the only argument against ever having such a switch *not* set is that non-MIME-aware text-only MUAs will now see some crufty MIME boundaries in the message that they didn't see before. I'd bet the number of users of non-MIME-aware text-only MUAs receiving mail from mailman that are incapable of wading through a bit of extra MIME boundary info on otherwise text/plain messages is vanishingly small. Most of those folks are probably at least used to seeing it as a result of the overwhelming predominance of multipart/alternative on today's SMTP network. > The impetus here is DKIM survivability across lists. Suppose we had a DKIM > canonicalization that was MIME-aware, so that it could sign the specific > MIME parts or sets of parts. That signature would fail on the message as a > whole -- with the footer part added -- but could in theory pass if an > appended part were omitted from canonicalization. To put it in context, > suppose there were a DKIM canonicalization where the signer signed (using > your examples) the CDE message; the receiver gets FGHI which fails, but > also has enough information to know that merely verifying FGH will pass; it > then knows that FGH was "legitimate" and I was added post-signing, and may > or may not be "safe" (for some value thereof) content. > > What I'm worried about with such a design is the trivial text/plain > message. Obviously merely appending the footer destroys any hope of > validating only the original content. We'd have to entertain the idea that > Mailman would make the simple message into a multipart/mixed + text/plain, > then append the footer part and sign that; the verifier would drop the > footer and then strip off the MIME to see if it can verify the original > signature that way. That seems like its easy to get wrong, though it's > likely to be a very common case. right, the MIME boundaries provide the parsing framework to enable this kind of sub-part DKIM-verification. One issue this process brings up is that it's now necessary to treat pretty much every part of the message as though it is multipart/signed -- that is, it needs to be handled bytewise opaquely, on pain of breaking the DKIM header. We already know that there are tools that do things like re-encode messages from base64 to q-p, or change character sets, or just re-flow long lines (FSVO "long") in the mime boundary subheaders. They're not supposed to do this with multipart/signed messages, because the RFCs point out that opaque handling is required, but they sometimes break them anyway. I imagine the same risk would now apply to all DKIM-signed messages using your scheme. With that caveat in mind, it's clear that without your proposal, all DKIM-signatures of messages with footers will break anyway. So this does seem to be a strict improvement, even if there are a few corner cases that aren't fully covered. --dkg

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Announcing the new wiki.list.org
by Barry Warsaw March 3, 2015

March 3, 2015

I am very happy to announce our new wiki! If you go to wiki.list.org you will see our shiny new Moin-based wiki. We are retiring the old Confluence-based wiki at the end of February. Until then, you can access it at old-wiki.list.org. Our very huge thanks go to Paul Boddie who did the amazing conversion work, almost single-handedly reverse engineering the Confluence dump through several iterations. Of course, our thanks also go to John Viega, owner of the list.org domain and Mailman's inventor for helping us get the DNS flipped over. Thanks too to everyone who gave feedback on the new wiki, contributed to the old wiki, and continue to help edit this important resource for the Mailman community. Our thanks also go to the Python Software Foundation and the PSF infrastructure team for providing us with the virtual machine hosting our new wiki. If you had write access to the old wiki and want it again for the new wiki, you will have to re-submit a request to mailman-cabal(a)python.org. Please be sure to register with wiki.list.org and provide us with your user name. With this conversion, I am happy to say that GNU Mailman is finally fully hosted on free software. While we appreciate the years of service donated to us by Atlassian and Contegix, it's important that we set an example by utilizing an entirely free software stack for our development and outreach. The wiki was our last remaining non-free bits. Let the gardening begin! Cheers, -Barry (On behalf of the GNU Mailman steering committee) P.S. We are working on the SSL certificate for the new wiki. Stay tuned.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2015: brainstorming ideas suitable for beginners?
by Stephen J. Turnbull March 3, 2015

March 3, 2015

Ankush Sharma B.Tech. Electronics Engg, IIT(BHU), Varanasi (U.P.), INDIA writes: > I was wondering if there is a sort of tool that generates summaries > for mailing list activity and charts like number of users, number > of active users, etc. Would something like this be a good idea or > is it already done? There are such tools but they're not integrated into the Mailman 2 web interface, and I think they're not in Postorius or Hyperkitty yet, either. They're frequently requested and I think Postorius provides some infrastructure for such things.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2015: brainstorming ideas suitable for beginners?
by Barry Warsaw March 3, 2015

March 3, 2015

On Feb 27, 2015, at 01:02 PM, Ankush Sharma B.Tech. Electronics Engg, IIT(BHU), Varanasi (U.P.), INDIA wrote: >A personalized mailing list will allow mailman users to send personalized >emails to all the list members from a common email template. Almost all the pieces are already there to support mail merging, at least as a plugin. There's quite a bit of functionality in place to allow for pluggable MTA delivery methods. Right now, there's only one. Search src/mailman/config/schema.cfg for the [mta]outgoing variable. We also already do a bit of mixin class composition to implement various aspects of the existing personalized delivery machinery. The proper class is chosen (based on the default [mta]outgoing value) from the value of mlist.personalize. To support mail merge, we'd need a little more flexibility in composing these basic bits. You'd like for individual mailing lists to be able to choose a custom delivery mechanism from a set of site-defined choices, for example. Then a plugin could define a new delivery class which does the database lookups and the mail merge into the template at the point where the VERP'd message is handed off to the upstream MTA. You'd register this new delivery class with the system and them mailing lists could opt into it. Cheers, -Barry

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Query regarding plugin integration with mailman3
by Aanand Shekhar Roy March 1, 2015

March 1, 2015

Can someone tell me if the following way is suitable for implementing a plug in on mailman3 : A folder contains all the .py codes needed to implement the plugin feature aimed. In that folder we make an executable file i.e. .sh file, which runs the script that adds the code mentioned above in the right places of mailman3 src code. Regards, Aanand

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MIME footers
by Barry Warsaw March 1, 2015

March 1, 2015

On Feb 27, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >How absurd would it be to propose a flag for Mailman that would take your >first case (non-MIME, or single-part text/plain) and convert it to a >multipart/mixed with a child part of the original text/plain, and then >apply the algorithm you have? [...] > >What I'm worried about with such a design is the trivial text/plain >message. Obviously merely appending the footer destroys any hope of >validating only the original content. We'd have to entertain the idea that >Mailman would make the simple message into a multipart/mixed + text/plain, >then append the footer part and sign that; the verifier would drop the >footer and then strip off the MIME to see if it can verify the original >signature that way. That seems like its easy to get wrong, though it's >likely to be a very common case. The biggest downside, and probably the main reason we append the footer text in the text/plain-compatible-charset case is because of crappy MUAs. I think we *still* get complaints about the MIME composition not being rendered very well. Their MUAs will show them attachments without the message content they actually care about. I wish I could say "fix the MUAs" but that's probably been futile since the day email was invented. ;) That said, it's not a totally unreasonable suggestion. I wonder if it makes sense to have that be a user option (then, what's the default, what a standard says, or whatever minimizes user complaints). Cheers, -Barry

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GSoC 2015: brainstorming ideas suitable for beginners?
by Terri Oda March 1, 2015

March 1, 2015

Hi all, In my role as org admin for Python, I'm trying to make sure we have more beginner-friendly ideas on the GSoC pages, and Mailman's among the groups that doesn't have any. How embarrassing for me as a Mailman developer. ;) It's also a problem for Mailman if we're applying as a separate organization, as Google seldom allows orgs unless they have a reasonable number of ideas suitable for open source newbies. (The idea behind this is that many students are very new to Open Source and we want them to at least get something out of the application process, learn how to set up their environments and learn about what it takes to get hired as a GSoC student. Even if they don't make it in their first year, they'll be much more ready for later years!) I'd love some help brainstorming some actual beginner-friendly ideas, though, because I'm currently all idea'd out. Anyone want to suggest some simpler things they'd like to see in Mailman that we could maybe put on the list? Suggesting and idea does not mean you have to volunteer to mentor them, although I'm always looking for new mentors too! Terri

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2015 aspirant: Github/development tools integration
by Aanand Shekhar Roy Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

Hi Karan, I would suggest setting up mailman would be a good start and from there your can to jump beginner friendly bugs on launchpad. To get a better insight into mailman system, you can also go through their documentation http://wiki.list.org/DEV/A%205%20minute%20guide%20to%20get%20the%20Mailman%… https://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/START.html If you get stuck you can contact someone at IRC also, at #mailman on freenode. > Hi Developers, > > I am final year computer science engineering student from UPTU. I want to > contribute to the organization by becoming a part of GSoC 2015. I know > C/C++, Python, Javascript. > I went through project ideas of Mailman and found "Github/development > tools > integration" interesting. Please guide me for the next step. I want to > start exploring asap to get good grasp of the platform required. > > Thank You, > > Karan Dev > Github: https://github.com/karan10 > Blog: https://karandevjre.wordpress.com > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/2013001%40iiitdm… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >

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GSoC 2015 aspirant: Github/development tools integration
by Karan Dev Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

Hi Developers, I am final year computer science engineering student from UPTU. I want to contribute to the organization by becoming a part of GSoC 2015. I know C/C++, Python, Javascript. I went through project ideas of Mailman and found "Github/development tools integration" interesting. Please guide me for the next step. I want to start exploring asap to get good grasp of the platform required. Thank You, Karan Dev Github: https://github.com/karan10 Blog: https://karandevjre.wordpress.com

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GSOC 15 Interested in project Mailman client written in Javascript
by kiran ps Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

Hi, I'm an Engineering student(computer science) pursuing my degree from Government Engineering College(Calicut University), Thrissur, India. I went through Mailman gsoc idea list.I'm interested in the project Mailman client written in Javascript. I have good skills in JavaScript, nodejs, angular, python. I am looking forward for a good response from your side regarding details about the projects so that I could start contributing towards it. Skills: Languages: JavaScript, nodejs, python, HTML5, CSS3, C, C++ Libraries: jQuery, underscorejs, zeptojs, KineticJS Frameworks: Angularjs, Express, Django, Tools: Vim, Git, Grunt, bower, Yeoman Thank you, { name: "Kiran P S", email: "pskirann(a)gmail.com", github: "github.com/kiranps", google+: "plus.google.com/+kiranps1", twitter: "@pskirann" }

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] full anonymisation
by Abhilash Raj Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

Hi Rashi, You should post directly to mailman-developers for anything you feel is related to GSoC. I am not the sole person going to select a student for this (or any) project (even if my name is listed as probable mentor in the wiki). On 28 February 2015 at 12:39, Rashi Karanpuria <2013165(a)iiitdmj.ac.in> wrote: > Trying to hide things from list moderator may be a futile approach in case > of mailman, though allowing list moderator to be the supreme boss > decreases the no of user cases it serves for eg. a complaint/suggestion > list in organization mailing lists may end up useless as the head would > know who criticized him but it still covers many critical use cases. > Coming to the present approach we were wondering if trust was more > important than being anonymous I listed the use cases [1] and concluded > that being anonymous is a major feature than being creditable. As in the > whistle blower use case we were discussing, the concern was if we don't > keep the same fake id for an exposer, people won't believe her. But in my > opinion even if she keeps the same fake identity people won't believe her > until she proves or shows that she is telling the truth because the matter > she is exposing is critical and delicate and works on proofs. > > [1]: > 1. *Alcoholics list*: > Here alcoholics suffering and willing to give it up share their issues > and seek help from the community and people of the same type. Trust > though could act as a plus point here as we are handling a social issue. > But it still meets its purpose without involving trust as the major work > is to arrive to a solution and meet people of your type and share the > pain and get cured. > 2. *therapy group*: > Controlled by the doctor and as he knows everything being the list > moderator he can better help his patients allowing them to mingle > anonymously and as above it serves the causes aimed at. > 3. *Drug Peddlers group or mafia asso.*: > Although we are not aiming at helping this section of people but just a > thought! The king pin is the head and so is supposed to know everything > but the workers below him need not know him or the co workers. > 4. *Whistle Blowers*: > As mentioned it works on proofs and not trust. > 5. *Pope Confessions*: > Similar functioning to therapy group. > 6. *Battered wives*: > Suffers as if the list moderator knows the users (here wives not > interested in revealing identities to any one) who will she be so that > the wives (users) should trust her. > 7. *Tax Evaders*: > Trust here is not required as people believe if the method worked. If you > need trustworthy methods why would you subscribe to such a list. And even > if this list has trust in the form of permanent fake ids the person after > suggesting correct methods first and then lay the traps so people still > can't trust anyone here. > 8. *Teacher Student feedback and discussions*: > College/School authorities are the list admins and moderators here. And > in such a list lesser the trust better the feedback ;) > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Approach for plugin ideas
by Aanand Shekhar Roy Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

Based on the discussion with @Abhilash, Below is the modified approach for plugin ideas: *Banned Words*: >> 1. We create a common set of words that are to be banned in a mail. > > How do you create such a list, who decides which words are banned? > Would it be possible to add/remove words from these lists from postorius? We create a default list of such words, like common racial and abusive words, the list will be displayed on the UI along with which we will provide two buttons "add" or "remove" which can allow list admin to modify it. > Will this list be list specific or global to one mailman installation? By default this list will be global to one mailman installation.But then, it can be modified as per needs of the list admin so it will be specific in general. >> 2. In list settings we create an option for list admin to choose action >>taken if a mail has banned words. > What according to you should be sane default for this? > Is is possible that > the banned words be removed or replaced with ****** and the mail be sent >to > the list so as to ease the life of list-admins? > Yes it is possible in the pipeline of handlers where we can extract and modify message string object, so the sane default will be replacing the banned word with "****". But the UI will provide options to list admin to change the default to "accept" or "discard". >> 3. We need to create a new rule in src/mailman/rules that checks >> for banned words in a msg string. >> 4. This rule is to be implemented in >> src/mailman/chains/builtin.py >> where it takes the action as chosen by list admin and then the control is >> passed further depending on the action taken. *Confidential Information Check*: >> 1. We need to create another rule which check for confidential info. like >> phone no and address credit card no. using regexp search. > How do you do that check? How can you differentiate any number from >phone number, Below is a regex for a 7 or 10 digit number, with extensions allowed, delimiters are spaces, dashes, or periods : For example: For numbers like (123) 456 7899, this helps in catching the ones with an area code in parentheses ([0-9]\{3\})[ .-][0-9]\{3\}[ .-][0-9]\{4\} We can extend it further to accommodate other international phone-numbers as well. > or credit card number? (Using reg-ex, yes, but what would the rules >be?) For credit-card numbers like: Visa : ^4[0-9]{12}(?:[0-9]{3})?$ All Visa card numbers start with a 4. New cards have 16 digits. Old cards have 13. MasterCard: ^5[1-5][0-9]{14}$ All MasterCard numbers start with the numbers 51 through 55. All have 16 digits. > Why is address a confidential information It depends, for some lists it could be a confidential information. >and how do you actually decide what > level of confidentiality you want to maintain? Will that be > configurable per-list or > globally in a mailman installation? We can provide provide checkboxes in postorius which will allow list admin to mark on the required fields. Like 1,Phone number 2,Credit-card No. 3,Address, etc. >> 2. If found we hold that message, and then we send an auto-reply to >>sender >> asking for confirmation if he >> intends to post such information. >> 3. This system works similar to the mail-back verification procedure >>during confirmation of email while subscribing where potential >> subscriber's reply decides the further action to be taken. > > How will you parse the response of the sender, will there be a > pre-defined format > like email commands in mailman? Yes, we will have some commands like say "OK-forward" in reply that will let it proceed further and "No-discard" if we don't want to. >Will you provide option in postorius too for the > same? If yes, how? No, keeping same settings will remove the flexibility, sometimes I would like to provide my phone number and sometimes no, so email command would be a better option. >> 4.Based on the user's response the held message will be processed >>further. > > Where will the message be stored while mailman waits for the reply from >the sender? We will have to make a queue similar to held message queue for this purpose. > Will there be a timeout for response after which the email will > automatically be > rejected (or discarded? ) > or will mailman wait forever for the > response? If you plan > to timeout what would be default value? The timeout will be there for a week after which it will be discarded. >> TIMED VACATION: First, I will try to implement above two ideas and if the time frame will allow then I would proceed on this further, otherwise I would like to make this one after Gsoc period.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Postorius test debugging problem : tests_forms.py
by Abhilash Raj Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

On 28 February 2015 at 10:07, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Abhilash, > > Thanks! it worked as you said. But renaming clean method is not > conventional. I changed the names and it looks like 'clean_password_repeat' > is good and that is the last input for that test as well, so I don't > understand why but that works. When you are concerned with cleaning only single field, you use clean_<field> method to do that. But when you have more than one fields to clean you put that under form's clean method. Also, form's clean method is run only after all the clean_<field> methods have already run. Why does clean_repeat_password work? I don't understand! It may be because it just cleans 'repeat_password' , whose removal does not affect the creation of User model and hence your tests pass. For further details regarding this read here[1] > The 'except' part for 'clean_email' is not functioning as expected and I > have already written the validation tests for that part as well. Its not being used because it is not required at all. You don't have to clean an EmailField, django forms does that automatically. They are simply CharFields which are validated for email. And before you ask, I don't understand why coverage shows that the part before 'except' is being executed. My guess is that when email is valid, forms execute the `clean_email` method, but when its not, the ValidationError is raised before the execution reaches the `clean_email`. [1]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/#cleaning-and-va… -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Postorius test debugging problem : tests_forms.py
by Pranjal Yadav Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

Abhilash, Thanks! it worked as you said. But renaming clean method is not conventional. I changed the names and it looks like 'clean_password_repeat' is good and that is the last input for that test as well, so I don't understand why but that works. The 'except' part for 'clean_email' is not functioning as expected and I have already written the validation tests for that part as well. On 28 Feb 2015 09:53, "Abhilash Raj" <raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 27 February 2015 at 20:39, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Abhilash, > > > > Thanks for your help. I read that we need to define methods as > > clean_<fieldname> however I missed > > I was cleaning multiple fields. For the listname method it works the way > you > > told me but I tried something > > similar ( http://pastebin.com/p40A19hU ) and it didn't work. If you > could > > tell me why is that? > > The list that you pass in choices is a list of 'tuples' which has 2 > elements in it. > The first is the choice to be displayed in the 'dropdown' and second > is its value. > > So you have to do something like this: > > self.domain_choices = > [('mailman.most-desirable.org','mailman.most-desirable.org')] > > and then call the ListNew class like this: > > form = ListNew(self.domain_choices, self.form_data) > > > Also I'm still puzzled when I run > > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest > > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.ListNewTest > > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.DomainNewTest > > Its not the correct way to run the individual test cases in django, it is > little > different from nose. You can run > > $ tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.test.test_forms:ListNewTest > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj >

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Postorius test debugging problem : tests_forms.py
by Abhilash Raj Feb. 28, 2015

Feb. 28, 2015

On 27 February 2015 at 20:39, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Abhilash, > > Thanks for your help. I read that we need to define methods as > clean_<fieldname> however I missed > I was cleaning multiple fields. For the listname method it works the way you > told me but I tried something > similar ( http://pastebin.com/p40A19hU ) and it didn't work. If you could > tell me why is that? The list that you pass in choices is a list of 'tuples' which has 2 elements in it. The first is the choice to be displayed in the 'dropdown' and second is its value. So you have to do something like this: self.domain_choices = [('mailman.most-desirable.org','mailman.most-desirable.org')] and then call the ListNew class like this: form = ListNew(self.domain_choices, self.form_data) > Also I'm still puzzled when I run > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.ListNewTest > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.DomainNewTest Its not the correct way to run the individual test cases in django, it is little different from nose. You can run $ tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.test.test_forms:ListNewTest -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] MIME footers
by Daniel Kahn Gillmor Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

On Tue 2015-02-24 15:26:36 -0500, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > A while back I introduced an experimental draft about DKIM signature > generation that's sensitive to MIME structure. I'm planning to revisit and > maybe even implement this to get some experimentation going. It would help > guide the design work if I knew this: > > How does, or how would, Mailman add a footer to a MIME message? My guess > is that it would make a multipart that contains the original message > (message/rfc822) as one part and the footer as a text/plain in a second > part, but that's purely a guess. Mailman does not generate any message/rfc822 MIME parts. Here's what it does to add a footer (there are three cases): ------- If the main content-type of the message is text/plain, then mailman just appends the footer to the body of the message directly. So it goes from this: A └─╴text/plain 1216 bytes to this: B └─╴text/plain 1418 bytes ------- If the main content-type of the message is multipart/mixed, it simply appends a new text/plain part at the end of the message. So it goes from this: C └┬╴multipart/mixed 8690 bytes D ├─╴text/plain 625 bytes E └─╴text/plain attachment [foo.diff] 1290 bytes to this: F └┬╴multipart/mixed 8795 bytes G ├─╴text/plain 625 bytes H ├─╴text/plain attachment [patch.loadlin.diff.txt] 1290 bytes I └─╴text/plain inline 200 bytes (part I is the mailman footer). ------- If the main content-type of the message is neither text/plain nor multipart/mixed, mailman creates a new root MIME node of type multipart/mixed, takes the previous mime structure as the first child of that root, and places the footer as the second child with a content-type of text/plain. so it goes from this: J └┬╴multipart/alternative 10003 bytes K ├─╴text/plain 1459 bytes L └─╴text/html 1996 bytes to this: M └┬╴multipart/mixed 10572 bytes N ├┬╴multipart/alternative 3881 bytes O │├─╴text/plain 1459 bytes P │└─╴text/html 1996 bytes Q └─╴text/plain inline 120 bytes > Equally important: What would it do to sign a message that's not MIME > to begin with? Could it be compelled to turn it into a MIME message, > perhaps treating the original as a single-part text/plain message and > doing the same wrapping I described? Mailman doesn't usually sign messages. What kind of signatures are you asking about? hth, --dkg

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Postorius test debugging problem : tests_forms.py
by Pranjal Yadav Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

Abhilash, renaming 'clean_password' to 'clean' did help in running all the tests successfully but looking at the coverage stats I realized the 'invalid_email' test is still not functional since those lines are shown as 'missing' in stats, So it was just a work around and it didn't actually help. When I changed 'clean_email' to 'clean' both validation tests for email worked however now 'invalid_password' test went off and gave an error. Now I'm confused with the naming part! On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Abhilash, > > Thanks for your help. I read that we need to define methods as > clean_<fieldname> however I missed > I was cleaning multiple fields. For the listname method it works the way > you told me but I tried something > similar ( http://pastebin.com/p40A19hU ) and it didn't work. If you could > tell me why is that? > > Also I'm still puzzled when I run > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.ListNewTest > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.DomainNewTest > > output : Ran 0 tests in 0.001s > > But after running this > tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms > > output : Ran 11 tests in 0.015s > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Abhilash Raj <raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Pranjal, >> >> I was able to run the tests in ListNewTest, and kind of debug the >> other test too. >> >> In ListNewTest you have two tests doing the same thing, probably you >> intended >> at doing something else, but there is nothing in there right now. >> >> there is a method of django forms called as `errors`. So you can simply do >> >> print form.errors >> >> and get the actual error in the forms printed when you run the tests. >> When I ran >> that I got "Passwords are not identical" error. Then I saw you changed >> the `clean` >> method in UserNew to `clean_password`. According to django >> documentation[1] when >> you are trying to access more than one field for cleaning you have to >> use `clean` >> method and not `clean_<fieldname>` method. Like `clean_email` method is >> cool! >> >> If you print the errors for `test_form_fields_listname` method, you'd see >> that >> it says that 'mailman.most-desirable.org' is not a valid choice. So you >> need to >> first create a domain with that host in `setUp` method of `ListNewTest`. >> >> I hope that helps! >> >> [1]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/ >> >> On 20 February 2015 at 07:26, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > I started writing tests to improve the coverage for postorius and I ran >> > into few problems which I couldn't solve for past few days. I added few >> new >> > test cases and re-ran tox. It seems somehow none of the tests ran >> although >> > the tox output says "ran 11 tests in 72.332s, failures = 3" >> > >> > Here is the link to my tests : http://pastebin.com/1jLhVsr2 >> > I did change a few things in forms.py : http://pastebin.com/2P3vXW7W >> > >> > After running these tests I realized UserNewTest and ListNewTest never >> > runs, though tox outputs it ran 11 test and failed 3 (mainly the >> assertTrue >> > for listname, password and email methods), when I tried tox -e >> > py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest, it says 0 >> tests >> > ran in 0.001s >> > >> > 1) So I don't understand why the assertTrue validation is failing though >> > all the inputs to the form is prefect? I talked to Aurelien and Abhliash >> > and also followed ( >> > >> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/#validating-fiel… >> ) >> > however it left me with the same situation. >> > >> > 2) If the tests run with tox then why do they not run when a particular >> > testcase is tested? >> > >> > 3) I discussed this problem with Aurelien and he mentioned "Form class >> > shouldn't do anything in its __init__ function" however we do have >> __inti__ >> > functions in our forms.py. So do we need to modify something there? >> > >> > -- >> > *Pranjal Yadav* >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Mailman-Developers mailing list >> > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> > Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >> > Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40… >> > >> > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> >> >> >> -- >> thanks, >> Abhilash Raj >> > > > > -- > > *Pranjal Yadav* > > *IIT Kharagpur* > -- *Pranjal Yadav* *IIT Kharagpur*

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2015: brainstorming ideas suitable for beginners?
by Terri Oda Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

I am quite aware of the definition of spam (in fact, I have a master's thesis on the subject). What I'm concerned about is that in the past, mail merges (which is what you're describing) is a feature that has often been requested by people doing marketing lists. It's not a subset of users I'm eager to attract, since a few bad apples could cause some unfortunate fallout for Mailman as users start marking messages as spam and, inevitably, sending us angry messages. (As the person who wrote the 2.1 documentation, I can tell you that I already get these on occasion as upset folk will send to basically any address they can find associated with the project.) It's not that it's a bad feature in isolation. But there are so *many* potential features for Mailman, and I'd like to see ideas that are less socially problematic get implemented first. Terri On 2015-02-26 11:52 PM, Ankush Sharma B.Tech. Electronics Engg, IIT(BHU), Varanasi (U.P.), INDIA wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Terri Oda <terri(a)toybox.ca > <mailto:terri@toybox.ca>> wrote: > > Honestly, I don't love this idea. I would be technically feasible > with VERP, > > I don't know about VERP. I will surely have a look. > > but it edges into features that are very popular for people sending > spam. > > Spamming would be the case when you are sending the emails to people who > don't want to receive such emails. While if we control the <email> > variable to take value from the set of emails of the list members only > and not allowing the use of template variables i.e < .. > stuff in the > *To: *field. > > > > > On 2015-02-26 11:32 PM, Ankush Sharma B.Tech. Electronics Engg, > IIT(BHU), Varanasi (U.P.), INDIA wrote: > > How about having personalized announcement mailing lists ? > > A personalized mailing list will allow mailman users to send > personalized emails to all the list members from a common email > template. Suppose I am the manager of a company and I need to > ask all > the workers for a meeting. I want each of my workers to prepare > a topic > to speak on during the meeting. For this I need to send each of > them a > message separately mentioning the topic he/she has to speak on. > > Suppose the email /template/ is like this: > > *To : <worker-email>* > *Subject: <sub>* > * > * > *Hello <worker-name>,* > * > * > *Hope you are having fun at <worker-place>. I am arranging a > meeting at > 5 p.m. on Saturday. I want you to speak on <topic> during the > meeting. > So, come prepared for that.* > *<other-suff>* > * > * > *Best wishes,* > * > * > *Ankush Sharma* > *Manager* > *foo-bar* > > > And I have a spreadsheet data on the mailing list server like this: > https://docs.google.com/__spreadsheets/d/1cAbdSmc1NA-__C9IZFjc___zB67qEvgmX… > <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cAbdSmc1NA-C9IZFjc_zB67qEvgmX8Jr3xY…> > > Mailman can have a functionality of flooding the /template/ by > using the > spreadsheet data. The variables in the /template/ (< -- > stuff) > would > be replaced by the corresponding row data in the spreadsheet > corresponding to the emails of the list members. This can > provide great > flexibility to mailman users who use mailman as announcement list. > > Later on, mailman can have the functionality of saving email > templates > and choosing one of them in a certain scenario. Mailing lists can be > made more personalized and powerful in this way. > > Expecting further feedback or suggestions on this idea. > > Ankush Sharma > IIT-BHU,Varanasi > github.com/black-perl <http://github.com/black-perl> > <http://github.com/black-perl> > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry(a)list.org > <mailto:barry@list.org> > <mailto:barry@list.org <mailto:barry@list.org>>> wrote: > > On Feb 25, 2015, at 04:12 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote: > > >I’m looking forward to being able to set and get > domainowner and serverowner > >(or siteowner or whatever its called). It will allow me to > delete lots of > >code and there’s no greater joy than deleting code. > > > >Are you anticipating this will be in V3.0? > > Please file a bug and we'll see. ;) > > Cheers, > -Barry > > _________________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > <mailto:Mailman-Developers@python.org> > <mailto:Mailman-Developers@__python.org > <mailto:Mailman-Developers@python.org>> > https://mail.python.org/__mailman/listinfo/mailman-__developers > <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/__mailman-developers%40python.__org/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/> > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/__mailman/options/mailman-__developers/ankush.sharm… > <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/ankush.sharma.ec…> > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > > >

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Postorius test debugging problem : tests_forms.py
by Pranjal Yadav Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

Hi Abhilash, Thanks for your help. I read that we need to define methods as clean_<fieldname> however I missed I was cleaning multiple fields. For the listname method it works the way you told me but I tried something similar ( http://pastebin.com/p40A19hU ) and it didn't work. If you could tell me why is that? Also I'm still puzzled when I run tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.ListNewTest tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.DomainNewTest output : Ran 0 tests in 0.001s But after running this tox -e py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms output : Ran 11 tests in 0.015s On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Abhilash Raj <raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Pranjal, > > I was able to run the tests in ListNewTest, and kind of debug the > other test too. > > In ListNewTest you have two tests doing the same thing, probably you > intended > at doing something else, but there is nothing in there right now. > > there is a method of django forms called as `errors`. So you can simply do > > print form.errors > > and get the actual error in the forms printed when you run the tests. When > I ran > that I got "Passwords are not identical" error. Then I saw you changed > the `clean` > method in UserNew to `clean_password`. According to django > documentation[1] when > you are trying to access more than one field for cleaning you have to > use `clean` > method and not `clean_<fieldname>` method. Like `clean_email` method is > cool! > > If you print the errors for `test_form_fields_listname` method, you'd see > that > it says that 'mailman.most-desirable.org' is not a valid choice. So you > need to > first create a domain with that host in `setUp` method of `ListNewTest`. > > I hope that helps! > > [1]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/ > > On 20 February 2015 at 07:26, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I started writing tests to improve the coverage for postorius and I ran > > into few problems which I couldn't solve for past few days. I added few > new > > test cases and re-ran tox. It seems somehow none of the tests ran > although > > the tox output says "ran 11 tests in 72.332s, failures = 3" > > > > Here is the link to my tests : http://pastebin.com/1jLhVsr2 > > I did change a few things in forms.py : http://pastebin.com/2P3vXW7W > > > > After running these tests I realized UserNewTest and ListNewTest never > > runs, though tox outputs it ran 11 test and failed 3 (mainly the > assertTrue > > for listname, password and email methods), when I tried tox -e > > py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest, it says 0 tests > > ran in 0.001s > > > > 1) So I don't understand why the assertTrue validation is failing though > > all the inputs to the form is prefect? I talked to Aurelien and Abhliash > > and also followed ( > > > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/#validating-fiel… > ) > > however it left me with the same situation. > > > > 2) If the tests run with tox then why do they not run when a particular > > testcase is tested? > > > > 3) I discussed this problem with Aurelien and he mentioned "Form class > > shouldn't do anything in its __init__ function" however we do have > __inti__ > > functions in our forms.py. So do we need to modify something there? > > > > -- > > *Pranjal Yadav* > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40… > > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj > -- *Pranjal Yadav* *IIT Kharagpur*

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Postorius test debugging problem : tests_forms.py
by Abhilash Raj Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

Hi Pranjal, I was able to run the tests in ListNewTest, and kind of debug the other test too. In ListNewTest you have two tests doing the same thing, probably you intended at doing something else, but there is nothing in there right now. there is a method of django forms called as `errors`. So you can simply do print form.errors and get the actual error in the forms printed when you run the tests. When I ran that I got "Passwords are not identical" error. Then I saw you changed the `clean` method in UserNew to `clean_password`. According to django documentation[1] when you are trying to access more than one field for cleaning you have to use `clean` method and not `clean_<fieldname>` method. Like `clean_email` method is cool! If you print the errors for `test_form_fields_listname` method, you'd see that it says that 'mailman.most-desirable.org' is not a valid choice. So you need to first create a domain with that host in `setUp` method of `ListNewTest`. I hope that helps! [1]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/ On 20 February 2015 at 07:26, Pranjal Yadav <godricglow(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I started writing tests to improve the coverage for postorius and I ran > into few problems which I couldn't solve for past few days. I added few new > test cases and re-ran tox. It seems somehow none of the tests ran although > the tox output says "ran 11 tests in 72.332s, failures = 3" > > Here is the link to my tests : http://pastebin.com/1jLhVsr2 > I did change a few things in forms.py : http://pastebin.com/2P3vXW7W > > After running these tests I realized UserNewTest and ListNewTest never > runs, though tox outputs it ran 11 test and failed 3 (mainly the assertTrue > for listname, password and email methods), when I tried tox -e > py27-django1.7 -- postorius.tests.test_forms.UserNewTest, it says 0 tests > ran in 0.001s > > 1) So I don't understand why the assertTrue validation is failing though > all the inputs to the form is prefect? I talked to Aurelien and Abhliash > and also followed ( > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/ref/forms/validation/#validating-fiel…) > however it left me with the same situation. > > 2) If the tests run with tox then why do they not run when a particular > testcase is tested? > > 3) I discussed this problem with Aurelien and he mentioned "Form class > shouldn't do anything in its __init__ function" however we do have __inti__ > functions in our forms.py. So do we need to modify something there? > > -- > *Pranjal Yadav* > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2015: brainstorming ideas suitable for beginners?
by Stephen J. Turnbull Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

Ankush Sharma B.Tech. Electronics Engg, IIT(BHU), Varanasi (U.P.), INDIA writes: > Spamming would be the case when you are sending the emails to people who > don't want to receive such emails. While if we control the <email> variable > to take value from the set of emails of the list members only and not > allowing the use of template variables i.e < .. > stuff in the *To: *field. Ah, but Mailman is a winning application because it's easy to add and remove subscribers. You can already upload files in the "mass add" screen of subscription management. If you're going to work on Mailman, remember the first rule of mail abuse: RULE #1: All mail programs can be used to spam. That said, I'm pretty sure people are already using Mailman for spamming in exactly that way (uploading files of target addresses), and there are some features like headers and footers that could be adapted to "personalized" spam. I don't see why the good guys should be prevented from using features that the bad guys have anyway. So I don't consider the smells like spam, tastes like spam, argument prohibitive (although I sympathize with Terri). > >> And I have a spreadsheet data on the mailing list server like this: > >> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cAbdSmc1NA-C9IZFjc_ > >> zB67qEvgmX8Jr3xYyGxPdwdU/pubhtml > >> > >> Mailman can have a functionality of flooding the /template/ by > >> using the spreadsheet data. The variables in the /template/ (< > >> -- > stuff) would be replaced by the corresponding row data in > >> the spreadsheet corresponding to the emails of the list > >> members. This can provide great flexibility to mailman users who > >> use mailman as announcement list. To be honest, this application would not be very high on my list of interesting projects. In the business application you described, I would be just as happy sending the table of assignments to everybody (and if there are assigned time slots, it doubles as the program). On the other hand, for marketing mail shots I would typically want a more flexible program. For example, if a customer has children and I know their names, then I would insert a whole paragraph about them, including their names, and probably the text would depend on gender and hobbies and so on. Or consider a cellphone service, the customer might be a family with several members and phones, and your letter probably should treat each member appropriately recommending upgrades according to usage patterns and demographics. That doesn't fit well into the rectangular spreadsheet model of row per message. I think that perhaps a more general database that *can* read spreadsheets but is not limited to that model would be more appropriate. But that is likely to be a fairly big project unless you're quite familiar with this kind of object-oriented database. Regards,

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2015: brainstorming ideas suitable for beginners?
by Terri Oda Feb. 27, 2015

Feb. 27, 2015

Honestly, I don't love this idea. I would be technically feasible with VERP, but it edges into features that are very popular for people sending spam. On 2015-02-26 11:32 PM, Ankush Sharma B.Tech. Electronics Engg, IIT(BHU), Varanasi (U.P.), INDIA wrote: > How about having personalized announcement mailing lists ? > > A personalized mailing list will allow mailman users to send > personalized emails to all the list members from a common email > template. Suppose I am the manager of a company and I need to ask all > the workers for a meeting. I want each of my workers to prepare a topic > to speak on during the meeting. For this I need to send each of them a > message separately mentioning the topic he/she has to speak on. > > Suppose the email /template/ is like this: > > *To : <worker-email>* > *Subject: <sub>* > * > * > *Hello <worker-name>,* > * > * > *Hope you are having fun at <worker-place>. I am arranging a meeting at > 5 p.m. on Saturday. I want you to speak on <topic> during the meeting. > So, come prepared for that.* > *<other-suff>* > * > * > *Best wishes,* > * > * > *Ankush Sharma* > *Manager* > *foo-bar* > > > And I have a spreadsheet data on the mailing list server like this: > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cAbdSmc1NA-C9IZFjc_zB67qEvgmX8Jr3xY… > > Mailman can have a functionality of flooding the /template/ by using the > spreadsheet data. The variables in the /template/ (< -- > stuff) would > be replaced by the corresponding row data in the spreadsheet > corresponding to the emails of the list members. This can provide great > flexibility to mailman users who use mailman as announcement list. > > Later on, mailman can have the functionality of saving email templates > and choosing one of them in a certain scenario. Mailing lists can be > made more personalized and powerful in this way. > > Expecting further feedback or suggestions on this idea. > > Ankush Sharma > IIT-BHU,Varanasi > github.com/black-perl <http://github.com/black-perl> > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry(a)list.org > <mailto:barry@list.org>> wrote: > > On Feb 25, 2015, at 04:12 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote: > > >I’m looking forward to being able to set and get domainowner and serverowner > >(or siteowner or whatever its called). It will allow me to delete lots of > >code and there’s no greater joy than deleting code. > > > >Are you anticipating this will be in V3.0? > > Please file a bug and we'll see. ;) > > Cheers, > -Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org <mailto:Mailman-Developers@python.org> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/ankush.sharma.ec… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > >

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Ideas for injecting test messages
by Stephen J. Turnbull Feb. 26, 2015

Feb. 26, 2015

Abhilash Raj writes: > Questions and answers seperated by a 3 hour window makes me feel > like its not even a question, Maybe we should add "suppress threads with self-responses" to Aanand's list of plugins? :-) (@Aanand -- it's impossible, so this is just a joke.) > If anyone feels this was totally unnecessary, please correct me. I don't think Andrew has been abusive, just enthusiastic. That's just a data point to say "YMMV but I had barely noticed". If I were bothered, I probably would have mailed him personally rather than posting to the net, or asked Barry and Mark out of band if something should be said. That said, self-replies should be *very* rare according to traditional netiquette, and generally restricted to (1) corrections of substantive errors in the query, and (2) the summary followup to "reply-to set to me; will summarize" posts. On the whole Internet, netiquette is changing. However, Mailman is an *old* project, and most of the active developers have been around for quite some time (though I daresay none of us remember a time without FORTRAN or LISP), and we are most comfortable with the Emily Postnews (remember her? probably not, you need to be *old* and listening on port 119 :-) version of netiquette. BTW, I *am* attempting to channel Barry and Mark, though with what success they'll need to say. I don't mean to criticize any person's behavior (IMO so far all has been compatible with the netiquette I believe is practiced on this list). I think it's worth having a public discussion *right now*, because we're coming up on GSoC and we'll have a pile of newbies coming in. (At least, I hope so!) It's best if we have a common policy. IMHO FWIW YMMV and we'll all adjust our watches to Barry's, of course. Regards, Steve

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Ideas for injecting test messages
by Andrew Stuart Feb. 25, 2015

Feb. 25, 2015

Perhaps. I’m working close to full time on programming with Mailman and questions do come up. I’ve had no previous experience of Mailman and for the most part I feel do all my own research and problem resolution. I dig deep into the source and generally I think I ask questions when I’ve got to the bottom of the source code and still can’t understand why something is working in the way it does. I know I’m more active on the list at the moment than anyone else. However, this is the only case that I’m aware of that I’ve asked a question that some research on Google could have answered. If you’d like less activity that’s OK I’ll take that on board. This however is likely to be the outcome of Mailman 3 coming to completion with interfaces that others programmers can work with- active development along with lots of questions. The whole Mailman community is likely to become more noisy if you have succeeded in your goal of building something valuable, which I think is true. I’ll take feedback from anyone on this - I don’t mind hearing what people think. If you feel like you’d like the list to be less active from me that’s fine - if you think my questions lack research and effort that’s OK too. Just let me know. as On 25 Feb 2015, at 10:18 pm, Abhilash Raj <raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com> wrote: Hi Andrew, I am not sure how do I put this, but I think you should spend little more time investigating about the questions you send in to this list. Questions and answers seperated by a 3 hour window makes me feel like its not even a question, but a personel log. I agree mailman-devs can answer your queries more quickly, but if you can find answers from documentation then there is no point in sending in these queries. It would be easier if you collated your queries and send-in one email in a day or two? Also, I really appriciate the authentication proxy that you are trying to build for mailman, please don't take this as any form of discouragement. These are my personel thoughts and in no way the opinion of the whole mailman community. If anyone feels this was totally unnecessary, please correct me. On 25 February 2015 at 07:57, Andrew Stuart <andrew.stuart(a)supercoders.com.au> wrote: > Please disregard. Apparently there’s websites that let you search the Internet, through which I found: > > https://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/commands/docs/inject.html > > > On 25 Feb 2015, at 10:04 am, Andrew Stuart <andrew.stuart(a)supercoders.com.au> wrote: > > I want to inject some test messages into Mailman to test moderation functions via the REST API. > > Any ideas on a simple way to do that? > > Ideally I need to be able to clear them out somehow too. > > thanks > > as > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/andrew.stuart%40… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

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