Mailman 3 May 2012 - Mailman-Developers

problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no var directory created during install
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>wrote: > > The short answer is "Anywhere, as long as the relative positions of > components are in the same place". Basically, just use "python > setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". > I installed it but I didn't get a var directory at all. (On the chance that it is created only after starting Mailman the first time, I tried to start it but that didn't work either.) The last line of the installation output read: error: None # ls /opt/mailman3/ bin lib Here's what I did: export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/opt/mailman3/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ /usr/bin/python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/mailman3 In src/mailman/config/schema.cfg I have: # Which paths.* file system layout to use. layout: dev In src/mailman/config/mailman.cfg I have: [paths.dev] var_dir: var [paths.fhs] bin_dir: /sbin var_dir: /var/lib/mailman [snip] # bin/mailman info Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/mailman", line 5, in <module> from pkg_resources import load_entry_point File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 2707, in <module> working_set.require(__requires__) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 686, in require needed = self.resolve(parse_requirements(requirements)) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 584, in resolve raise DistributionNotFound(req) pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: restish root@localhost:/opt/mailman3# bin/mailman start Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/mailman", line 5, in <module> from pkg_resources import load_entry_point File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 2707, in <module> working_set.require(__requires__) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 686, in require needed = self.resolve(parse_requirements(requirements)) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py", line 584, in resolve raise DistributionNotFound(req) pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: restish mailman-3.0.0b1-source# ls bin copybump.py dist eggs setup.cfg bootstrap.py COPYING distribute-0.6.8-py2.7.egg MANIFEST.in setup.py build cron distribute-0.6.8.tar.gz parts src buildout.cfg data distribute_setup.py PKG-INFO template.py conf.py develop-eggs distribute_setup.pyc README.rst var

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Stephen J. Turnbull 03 May '12

03 May '12

Hi George, Thanks for the report! A couple of quick comments: On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: > I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start > writing code on the bonding period, It's up to your coding mentors, but it's generally not a good idea to try to move up the coding stage by too much. Make sure you have a clear spec before you start coding anything, and at least a rough sketch of a design. Without those two pieces, there's no standard to evaluate progress, or whether your code is doing the right thing. > so i can have more time during my > university’s exams (starting on half of June). I'd say just take the time as needed, after negotiating with your mentors. > Settings > > The Django app should handle some configuration parameters, like: > > - Maximum number of the subscribers of a mailing list the user wants > to be shown in the charts I don't know how feasible it would be to implement, but if you're willing to use AJAX, you could simply build up bar and line charts on the fly, adding "slices" of say 5 users at a time on the right side of the chart in progress. That might be cool. It could be set in a "viewport" and scrolled if it gets too big for the viewport. > - A multi-state variable (None, abbreviated, full) for masking email > addresses at the results (we don’t want the emails to be spammed) This is pointless if the archives show addresses. So archives and list should coordinate with the chart module on this. I suppose this should be a query to the list config (and maybe per user configs). > - Month – This model will store total posts and threads for each month > - Year – Similar to month model, this one will store total posts and > threads for each year It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate of monthly data? This would allow years to start with arbitrary months without too much redundancy. > Interface to the MM core > > The app needs to interact with the Mailman core. I think the best idea > is to implement a message bus that will send a notification every time > a message is sent (the same way an archiver works). Why not just use the iArchiver interface? I think it should be possible to have this be a standalone app serving the list itself, or be hosted by a particular archive, which wouldn't need to be the list host (or even run by the same organization).

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] where to install Mailman?
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen(a)xemacs.org>wrote: > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > > > strictly from a Mailman point of > > view, where should I install Mailman 3.0? > > The short answer is "Anywhere, as long as the relative positions of > components are in the same place". Basically, just use "python > setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". > > > My habit has always been to install my own application in /opt. > > I don't see any reason to vary from that > Don't try to mimic Ubuntu's layout for Mailman 2. > > > Also, would you use a base directory named mailman > > or mailman-3.0.0b1? Thanks > > I personally will be using "mailman3" > > I do think it's important to be careful about the upgrade to 3.1. > The help on this mailing list (and mailman-users) is just phenomenal! Thank you so much!

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] where to install Mailman?
by Stephen J. Turnbull 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > I know this is possibly both a stupid question and one that is subject to > endless debate in the larger scope... but strictly from a Mailman point of > view, where should I install Mailman 3.0? The short answer is "Anywhere, as long as the relative positions of components are in the same place". Basically, just use "python setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". And no, it's not a stupid question. There's an annoying trap that's worth avoiding: mimicking distro layouts (see below). > My habit has always been to install my own application in /opt. I don't see any reason to vary from that, it will just irritate you to some extent, and not help others advise you. The important issue is how things relate to each other under $prefix and in the related "var" hierarchy (where the config files and databases will be kept), and setup.py will handle that. Long experience with Mailman 2 is that if you're installing from source, there won't be conflicts with the distro anyway, and it's easier for all if everybody's layout is "standard". Don't try to mimic Ubuntu's layout for Mailman 2. Distros often have layout policies that fit their tools, but these (and the sensibilities of Mailman developers) vary, so following a distro layout will likely cause yours to vary from the developers and other beta testers (who are an equally important source of advice). > Also, would you use a base directory named mailman > or mailman-3.0.0b1? Thanks I personally will be using "mailman3" as I will be running Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 in parallel for a while. If that doesn't apply to you, IMHO it's a matter of taste whether you use "bare" "mailman" or a name tagged with the version. Keeping older versions in their own installations occasionally saves work in recovering from a configuration error or software defect, but is a continual minor annoyance. I do think it's important to be careful about the upgrade to 3.1. At that time it is likely that many new features will be added, and possibly some backward incompatible changes. If for some reason you want to revert to 3.0, up-to-date backups of the database and configuration files are very important. Whether to use conventional backup copies, VCS, or version-specific installations is a matter of taste IMO. I would use whatever you feel comfortable with.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by Stephen J. Turnbull 03 May '12

03 May '12

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:57 AM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Is this the right place for a suggestion on minor documentation changes? > I actually needed build-essential and python-dev packages in addition to > the python package that came with the default Ubuntu install on Linode. Ubuntu is popular, but not that popular that this kind of change will stop here. This is really basic knowledge that IMO is reasonable for our docs to presume (anybody who is installing beta software is going to run into real issues sooner or later). So it isn't a minor change, it's a move in the direction of becoming a site for educating novice sysadmins, and we're going to end up providing similar HOWTOs for RHEL, Debian, ... (hopefully not Gentoo or ArchLinux, of course;-). I don't have an objection to doing that, if somebody wants to put it together. I think it's quite plausible that Mailman 3 will be the first experience for many source-build virgins. But my experience with Emacsen suggests that people who are running into the "Windows-wannabe distros can't build software" issue is better addressed by a separate *set* of *distro-specific* documents (it might be in one file with per-distro sections, of course). Putting this stuff into the quick-start or full install guide is just going to deter novices and annoy experienced sysadmins. Better yet would be a section of the FAQ pointing to a generic site for "So ya wanna be a beta tester" documents, but I suspect that doesn't exist.

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where to install Mailman?
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

I know this is possibly both a stupid question and one that is subject to endless debate in the larger scope... but strictly from a Mailman point of view, where should I install Mailman 3.0? My habit has always been to install my own application in /opt. If I install from a tarball, I always use /opt. But to make Mailman configuration and setup easier, I think I will deviate from that and install Mailman 3.0 like most of the other people here would do. Can anyone give me a recommendation specifically for Mailman 3.0 on Ubuntu? Also, would you use a base directory named mailman or mailman-3.0.0b1? Thanks

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] no documentation for Mailman 3.0
by Stephen J. Turnbull 03 May '12

03 May '12

This procedure has changed since the alphas but I guess the install doc hasn't been patched yet. python setup.py build_sphinx On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:00 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > Build the online docs by running:: > > % bin/docs

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] no documentation for Mailman 3.0
by Mark Sapiro 03 May '12

03 May '12

On 5/2/2012 8:00 PM, David wrote: > Build the online docs by running:: > > % bin/docs Build the docs by installing sphinx (pip instal sphinx) and then running python setup.py build-sphinx See <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/975670> -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Error: Couldn't install: storm 0.19
by Mark Sapiro 03 May '12

03 May '12

David <dave at fiteyes.com> wrote: > > Is this the right place for a suggestion on minor documentation changes? <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug> Tag it 'mailman3' -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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no documentation for Mailman 3.0
by David 03 May '12

03 May '12

Build the online docs by running:: % bin/docs root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1# bin/docs -bash: bin/docs: No such file or directory root@localhost:/opt/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin# ls buildout mailman master onebounce py runner tags test

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