Mailman 3 February 2001 - Edu-sig

RE: [Edu-sig] Switching gears...
by Morris, Steve 28 Feb '01

28 Feb '01

Funny you should say so. I have a similar reaction when trying to help my 5th grader with math. Unfortunately I don't have the option of giving up on the teachers. I have to work around them. I'm beginning to hate the "Chicago curriculum" even though the only thing I know about it is the math problem sheets that get sent home. The biggest problem is the stone wall that appears whenever I try to get more information about the curriculum so I can try to anticipate. The teachers treat me like an adversary that they need to handle with kid gloves but for sure don't give any real information to. They are polite but unhelpful. I'm afraid to push because of potential adverse reaction towards my student child. Sorry for the off topic rant but I am at wits end. I watch my 5th graders motivation trickle away daily. I think I understand how to make math clear and interesting but all my energy is wasted trying to compensate for the weakness of his classroom work. I was hoping to give him an edge but instead am trying not to lose him altogether. Oh well, maybe next years teacher will be better. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirby Urner [mailto:pdx4d@teleport.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:40 PM > To: edu-sig(a)python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] Switching gears... > > > > I think I'll give up pursuing the "math through programming" > thread with the math teachers. I'll stay in contact with > the few with an interest who got in touch, but most of the > time it's like talking to a brick wall. > > Fortunately, the computer science track covers a lot of the > same material ('Concrete Mathematics', 'Art of Computer > Programming'), so in some respects we can make up for > deficiencies in the math curriculum by bolstering the > computer programming curriculum. > > I see a large homeschooler market developing here, as many > kids have computers at home but no competent teachers in > school (Yorktown kids etc. are lucky). I hope those > computer science/programming teachers who share this stuff > with kids will continue putting a lot of it on the web in > an accessible form, as for every kid in the classroom, > there will be 100 at home with fewer options to learn in > a group setting with a live teacher. > > I feel sorry for kids who just get the regular K-12 > math curriculum these days. It's not relevant to their > needs. But it's what the teachers are programmed to > teach, and there's no sense arguing with essentially > mindless automatons. I can think of better and more > effective ways to rescue kids from a dead end curriculum > and will be heading down those avenues instead. > > Kirby > > More in a similar vein: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/message/1876 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >

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Re: Python comes to Henry Sibley H.S.
by Rob Wall 28 Feb '01

28 Feb '01

Since this is my first official posting to the Python edu-sig list, let me start with a hearty hello to everyone. I have not contributed to the list, but I feel I have learned a great deal from it, for which I am greatful. I teach Computer Science at North Battleford Comprehensive High School. We are in the process of changing our teaching languages from BASIC and RealBASIC on a Mac platform to Python and Java on a Linux platform. As we are going through the semester, I will be putting assignments up at our website at http://ogimow.bsd.sk.ca:8080/compsci - the Python stuff is done in Computer Science 20, but if you are using Python to teach OOP, you may find some of the Computer Science 30 assignments useful as well. If anyone has any comments on the site (powered by Zope, btw) I'd appreciate hearing from you (the obligatory e-mail link is on the web site). later, rob -- Rob Wall Technology Coordinator, Battlefords School Division http://www.bsd.sk.ca

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Python comes to Henry Sibley H.S.
by Timothy Wilson 28 Feb '01

28 Feb '01

Hi everyone, I'm excited to report that my proposal to offer an "Introduction to Computer Programming" course at the high school where I teach was accepted and 75 students have signed up for next fall. We're a high school of about 1500 students in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area and I was hoping to get enough for one section. We'll need three sections to accomodate 75 students. Unfortunately, we don't have the computer lab space currently to offer three sections. I'm hopeful that given the obvious demand for the course a solution can be worked out by fall. I was initially inspired by Jeff Elkner's program at Yorktown and I know there are others teaching Python in high schools. As someone who hasn't taught programming before (my background is chemistry and physics), I'd definitely be interested in pointers to whatever curriculum repositories are available. Maybe it would be helpful to make some links to the schools that are using Python. Wishing-I-was-in-Long-Beach-next-week-ly yours, Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.k12.mn.us/ | http://www.zope.org/ W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org/ wilson(a)visi.com | <dtml-var pithy_quote> | http://linux.com/

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Re: Edu-sig digest, Vol 1 #239 - 5 msgs
by ANGEL STEELE 27 Feb '01

27 Feb '01

help --- edu-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to > edu-sig(a)python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > edu-sig-request(a)python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > edu-sig-admin(a)python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re: diSessa's "computational media", and Boxer > (Arthur_Siegel(a)rsmi.com) > 2. Re: re: diSessa's "computational media", and > Boxer (Fred Yankowski) > 3. Python comes to Henry Sibley H.S. (Timothy > Wilson) > 4. Re: Python comes to Henry Sibley H.S. (Todd > Whittaker) > 5. Re: Python comes to Henry Sibley H.S. (Timothy > Wilson) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:02:18 -0600 > From: Arthur_Siegel(a)rsmi.com > To: edu-sig(a)python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] re: diSessa's "computational > media", and Boxer > > Fred writes - > > >I recently read diSessa's "Changing Minds" book, > based (if I recall > >correctly) on a recommendation by someone on this > edu-sig list. The > >book is excellent, with an extended argument for > the value and > >possibility of "computational literacy" and > "computational media" > >which should interest most edu-sig participants. > > Found chapters 1& 2 online in pdf at: > > http://www.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/papers.html > > Shall read at least that far. > > >diSessa's practical experience comes from using > software called > >"Boxer" to teach elementary and high school > students principles of > >math, science, and (secondarily) programming. > > Sounds like Kirby territory. > > Certainly will be interesting to see how diSessa's > "Changing" and Kirby's > "Overcome" takes intersect/diverge. > > >The user interface of Boxer is at once brilliant, > and awkward and unfamiliar. > > >Boxer applications are structured as a hierarchy of > "boxes" (hence the name) > >which are displayed as nested windows on a GUI > screen. Boxer's > >command language, which appears as text statements > inside boxes, is > >based on Logo. > > As usual, my own take is intuitive, and experiential > - not formal and > studied. > > But I do tend to resist any approach that is GUI > intensive. I posted up > a SnapPea geometry exploration tool cite quite > recently. Had a fully > developed GUI, and than developed the Python > scripting. Not > an unusual progression. Why is this happening? > Does the availabiltiy > of Python somehow supercede the reasons behind the > GUI intensive > approach. I think, in many ways, yes. > > In a GUI intensive envrionment the GUI has the upper > hand, not the student. > How do you study and measure that power > relationship. I accept my inituition. > Students undertand that they are dependant on the > GUI - and enthusiasm is > sapped. I still like the thirty line's of straight > text which can be run as a > > chat program > as "python chattext.py". Or is a straight-forward > IDE like a IDLE. It works, > and is > "real" programming - is better than box > hierarchies, talking paperclips, and > all > down that road. Not purer - I am not trying to be a > purist. Just have my own > > sense of what get kids excited. And this is all 95% > about getting kids > motivated > and excited. Feeling grown-up is certainly one such > thing. > . > So it is difficult in my mind for a Python > educational curriculum to pick up > much > from what came before, because in doing so one will > be tending to dilute > what Python somewhat uniquely brings to the party. > > > > 2) I'm wondering if anyone else here has a > similar interest in > > Boxer, and would like to explore the > possibility of getting a > > Boxer-like system working on the PC, perhaps > using Python as the > > implementation language and a system like > VPython for the > > graphical component (which I haven't discussed). > > I certainly think we should indulge and excite kids > by letting them get at > good graphics in the context of both math and > programming education. > And do think VPython is quite well suited for that > role. > > ART > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:38:21 -0600 > From: Fred Yankowski <fred(a)ontosys.com> > Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] re: diSessa's "computational > media", and Boxer > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 02:02:18PM -0600, > Arthur_Siegel(a)rsmi.com wrote: > > Found chapters 1& 2 online in pdf at: > > http://www.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/papers.html > > Thank you for that URL. I completely forgot to > provide any references > in my original message. > > The first two chapters of the book outline diSessa's > thesis and give > some very brief examples of Boxer, but miss some > compelling stories of > how kids used Boxer. > > > But I do tend to resist any approach that is GUI > intensive. > > I think I understand you. I have similar > preferences: > > good: Linux /etc/whatever.conf files > fair: Win32 control panels, preferences, tabs, > advanced options, ... > > good: Hacking Java code in Emacs, working > directly on files > fair: Editing methods in a VisualAge for Java GUI > > good: Hacking Python code in Emacs, running from > bash > fair: Editing Python code in IDLE or PythonWin > > good: Working directly on web application script > files > fair: Editing Zope "methods" "thru the web" > > But, then again, I've been programming for over 25 > years. (Back then > we coded everything on punch cards, and we LIKED > IT!) === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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re: diSessa's "computational media", and Boxer
by Arthur_Siegel＠rsmi.com 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Fred writes - >I recently read diSessa's "Changing Minds" book, based (if I recall >correctly) on a recommendation by someone on this edu-sig list. The >book is excellent, with an extended argument for the value and >possibility of "computational literacy" and "computational media" >which should interest most edu-sig participants. Found chapters 1& 2 online in pdf at: http://www.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/papers.html Shall read at least that far. >diSessa's practical experience comes from using software called >"Boxer" to teach elementary and high school students principles of >math, science, and (secondarily) programming. Sounds like Kirby territory. Certainly will be interesting to see how diSessa's "Changing" and Kirby's "Overcome" takes intersect/diverge. >The user interface of Boxer is at once brilliant, and awkward and unfamiliar. >Boxer applications are structured as a hierarchy of "boxes" (hence the name) >which are displayed as nested windows on a GUI screen. Boxer's >command language, which appears as text statements inside boxes, is >based on Logo. As usual, my own take is intuitive, and experiential - not formal and studied. But I do tend to resist any approach that is GUI intensive. I posted up a SnapPea geometry exploration tool cite quite recently. Had a fully developed GUI, and than developed the Python scripting. Not an unusual progression. Why is this happening? Does the availabiltiy of Python somehow supercede the reasons behind the GUI intensive approach. I think, in many ways, yes. In a GUI intensive envrionment the GUI has the upper hand, not the student. How do you study and measure that power relationship. I accept my inituition. Students undertand that they are dependant on the GUI - and enthusiasm is sapped. I still like the thirty line's of straight text which can be run as a chat program as "python chattext.py". Or is a straight-forward IDE like a IDLE. It works, and is "real" programming - is better than box hierarchies, talking paperclips, and all down that road. Not purer - I am not trying to be a purist. Just have my own sense of what get kids excited. And this is all 95% about getting kids motivated and excited. Feeling grown-up is certainly one such thing. . So it is difficult in my mind for a Python educational curriculum to pick up much from what came before, because in doing so one will be tending to dilute what Python somewhat uniquely brings to the party. > 2) I'm wondering if anyone else here has a similar interest in > Boxer, and would like to explore the possibility of getting a > Boxer-like system working on the PC, perhaps using Python as the > implementation language and a system like VPython for the > graphical component (which I haven't discussed). I certainly think we should indulge and excite kids by letting them get at good graphics in the context of both math and programming education. And do think VPython is quite well suited for that role. ART

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Advanced geometry in Python
by Arthinator＠aol.com 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Looks interesting: http://thames.northnet.org/weeks/index/SnapPea.html >SnapPea is a program for creating and studying hyperbolic 3-manifolds. For PyGeo graduates, of course >A partially complete version of SnapPea 3.0 is now available. Thanks to Nathan >Dunfield's advice and assistance, SnapPea 3.0 is accessible via Python scripts >as well as through a traditional graphical user interface. (With luck this >Python/Tk SnapPea will eventually run on Macs and PCs as well as Linux >boxes.) My Linux hole crops up again, so I have not gotten a look a SnapPea's Python scripting capabilities as yet. So just giving a cite to what looks like a serious geometry exploration tool, reachable by Python. As it should be. It becoming more and more commonplace to be pursuing an interest unrelated to my interest in Python and finding Python. ART (from my wife's AOL account)

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Beginner programs?
by Ryan Booz 26 Feb '01

26 Feb '01

Hello everyone, I've been hanging out on the fringes for a while. I just started teaching python to a group of ten students, in a small school that has never offered programing before. Thus far, it's very exciting to see the students be spurred on by quick success they have with the language. Now I'm getting to the point of trying to come up with problems (programs) that are challenging for the students but let them use the tools they have thus far. I'm mostly following the introduction scheme of "How to think like a computer programmer - Python version". I saw that a while back there was some thought of collecting a group of exercises for class use. My first thought, since we just got finished with functions and logic statements, was to work on a basic calculator and then maybe a hangman kind of game. So I'm asking (again kind of) if there are any resources for beginner problems to be solved through programming - realizing that most of these kids are not college mathematicians. Second, I took my first try at the calculator program and it works mostly. Remember, I'm just learning also... the old "keep a day ahead" kind of teaching. Second, I am opening myself up and asking for thoughts on the simple calculator program I wrote. I'll include the code below, and would like to get any comments you have to offer. If I'm going to use it as an example, I want to make sure it's a decent one. Thanks for any help and thoughts you can give. This is a new venture, and I want the students to learn good habits, be successful, and encourage the administration to continue this offering. Sincerely, Ryan Booz Tech Coordinator Belleville Mennonite School ---------------- Calculator program ---------------------- # This is a simple Calculator for our Python Class # # First each of the functions for manipulating the two numbers is defined def addition(x,y): global new new = x+y print "The sum of",x,"and",y,"is",new def subtraction(x,y): global new new = x-y print "The difference of",x,"and",y,"is",new def multiply(x,y): global new new = x*y print "The product of",x,"and",y,"is",new def divide(x,y): global new new = x/y print "The qoutiant of",x,"and",y,"is",new # # This is the first function that actually asks for the first two numbers. It is called only once. # Once the two numbers are given, the function calls the decision making function 'desc()' # def new_num(): x=input("What is the first number you would like to use? ") y=input("What is the second number you would like to use? ") desc(x,y) # # The inital input function calls this function which simply determins what the user # wants to do. Then if calls the correct manipulation function which actually does the calculation # def desc(x,y): compute=raw_input("Would you like to:\nAdd(a)\nSubtract(s)\nMultiply(m)\nor Divide(d)") calc(x,y,compute) # # Here's the function that calls the appropriate calculation function # ***Important to notice*** # Once each calculation is done, that part of this function calls the last # function which asks if the user wants to do something further to the new number # def calc(x,y,compute): global new if compute=="a": addition(x,y) sec_num(new) elif compute=="s": subtraction(x,y) sec_num(new) elif compute=="m": multiply(x,y) sec_num(new) elif compute=="d": divide(x,y) sec_num(new) else: print "You need to choose one of the four options!" desc() # # This is the function that asks if the user wants to do anything more with the new number # It then calls the decision function again if they answer yes # def sec_num(new): choice=raw_input("Do you want work with a new second number (y or n)? ") if choice == "y": second_num=input("What is the new number you would like to work with? ") desc(new,second_num) else: return # This is where the program actually starts. Once it gets going, it all runs between the # functions print "This is a simple calculator. You will input two numbers and then have the\ncomputer add, subtract, multiply, or divide the two numbers.\nThen you will have a chance to continue your calulations" print new_num() # When they get a chance to do another calculation, if they answer 'no' # then the program exits the functions and prints the following line print print "Thanks for using the program!"

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Active Essays
by Arthur_Siegel＠rsmi.com 18 Feb '01

18 Feb '01

>The idea of using Jython with Java3D is just an >idea (for me). Nor have I done anything with Python + OpenGL >(but plan to). Kirby - I also encourage you to take another look at the VPython possibilities, as I did yesterday. As Dethe already mentioned, it now comes in an extremely small footprint flavor - you can in fact (I believe) limit it to the install of the cvisual.dll and you have a well documented, good performance 3d rendering engine for Python. Even has a pre-built add-on module for Povray output. The latest challenge I set for myself with PyGeo is to more clearly seperate the analytics from the rendering back-end (thanks to Steve Morris, for the suggestion). My way of learning to program. Set a goal, find some brains to pick, and plod forward Here Piddle seems a likely brain, to pick, as I believe it was structured for plug-in rendering. There are a just a few fancier things I do with PyGeo using the OpenGL API - most notable a Projection class - which from a 3d point of view is really just a form of defined shadows, but which took a low-level manipulation of the matrix stack. Haven't figured out a way to get it done with Lightflow, but since VPython is open-source, worst case scenario I learn a little more about C extensions and add what I need at the level. Is this fun, or what? ART

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Re: [Edu-sig] Active Essays
by Kirby Urner 18 Feb '01

18 Feb '01

>When I struggled to read Bucky Fuller's Synergetics some years ago, >I found myself wishing for something very much like this. It's nice >to see some progress being made to incorporate executable code in >narrative streams to explain/explore complex subjects. > >--Dethe I agree, and forwarded the URL to a bevy of geometers I know, with credit to yourself: "Dethe on edu-sig (Python) clued me re this "active essay", which uses Java applets to make its points: http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/emergence/index.html ..." As per synergetics and applets, you'll find an example on: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/domegeo.html (source linked from http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/javafreq.html) Here's the first Java applet I ever put on the web (check boxes have a mind of their own unless you choose the 'manual' radio button first): http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/javavols.html There's also Javascript: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/exhibit1.html http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/exhibit2.html And let's not forget my "spooky castle" jitterbug transformation at http://members.xoom.com/Urner/movies/ghostjit.mpg So far, I've only used Python + Povray or Python + VRML at my website. The idea of using Jython with Java3D is just an idea (for me). Nor have I done anything with Python + OpenGL (but plan to). The talented Mark Somers has done some of the most impressive Povray animations. I've you've got the time or fast connection, watch the animated GIF at: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/synergetica/gctrain.html Kirby

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Active Essays
by Dethe Elza 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

There's a wonderful piece by Mitchel Resnick and Brian Silverman called Exploring Emergence (http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/emergence/index.html). They use java applets on each page to illustrate and allow the reader to explore the concepts in the text. My wife (who I use as my token non-techie to evaluate these things) not only "got it" immediately, she got hooked on playing with it, and started generating ideas for new/similar programming gadgets. When I struggled to read Bucky Fuller's Synergetics some years ago, I found myself wishing for something very much like this. It's nice to see some progress being made to incorporate executable code in narrative streams to explain/explore complex subjects. --Dethe

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