Mailman 3 March 2008 - Edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] manifesto
by David MacQuigg 31 Mar '08

31 Mar '08

At 10:50 AM 3/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: >My dept chair finally agreed to let me have an hour to present Python to the math dept during our staff development day last Friday. I knew that an hour wouldn't be enough, so I wrote a manifesto : ) which is attached. Excellent!! I'll pass this on to the faculty at our community college. When I suggested Python a few months ago, the reaction was - Oh God, not another language! We've tried C, Java, QBASIC. Our students just can't handle it. So they switched to ALICE!! I like your comments about the status quo: >Many people think of technology as something that programmers create for us, that programmers should just do their job while we kick back and play with, or 'use', what they have created. We, the users, shouldn't have to worry about programming itself, as, after all, that's what 'programmers' get paid to do. > >This is what is happening in the sciences these days. Scientists cannot rely on already existing software packages to be able to express the ideas they are working on. What they need is an easy to use language that is also robust. For many, Python fits the bill. I would add "engineering" and maybe some areas of business management as well. As a circuit design engineer, I can say this description fits perfectly what I have seen. Modern IC design is so complex, all we can do is rely on professional programmers to provide us with the tools to simulate our designs. Big companies, like where I worked, have entire departments with as many as 30 programmers working full time for just the engineers in that one company. Smaller companies have to rely on what comes with the original software, which is often poorly written by programmers who don't understand what circuit designers need, or just don't have time to provide all the options needed for every design problem. The Monte Carlo analysis, for example, was just awful - menus and forms with poorly documented options, and results you could never trust. In the time it took to "experiment" with the tools, and try to figure out what they really did with my circuit, I could write my own Monte Carlo analysis, and that is what I wanted to do. I even sketched out a bit of pseudo-code (was not aware of Python at the time). I felt handicapped by the tools, and very frustrated. Engineers can understand algorithms, and they can easily read and modify a program written in Python. They just don't have time to keep up to speed in Java or C++, or to learn the proprietary languages that most of these tools are written in. What they really need is a framework in which the circuit-analysis "engines" may be written in C, but the controlling scripts are written in Python. Instead of trying to provide every possible option for a Monte Carlo analysis, just give us a script that runs the engines to do a basic analysis. Thank you, we'll take it from there. Keep up the good work!! -- Dave

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teaching with python experience
by Massimo Di Pierro 31 Mar '08

31 Mar '08

Hello everybody, I would like to share some of my experience in teaching Python at DePaul University in Computer Science. The main problem we have been facing with C++ and Java courses is that it takes years of practice before students are able to develop something interesting. We tried different approaches: 1) We created an optional introductory sequence in Python (in alternative to Java or C++, but they still have to learn Java and C++ in more advanced courses). Students who take the class tend to be generally more knowledgeable of CS concepts than students who choose the Java and C++ intro courses (who chose them because they have heard of the names). 2) We use Python more and more in courses that are not language specific. For example I teach graduate courses on Monte Carlo Simulations for Financial Applications, a course on Scientific Computing and a course on Parallel Programming. In all these courses I use python instead of pseudo code and the students get it right away even if they have not been trained in the language. In some cases they have to translate python in C++ but Python helps them separate the complexity of the algorithms from the complexity of C++ progamming. 3) We created a new course on web frameworks in Python. The course is not on the usage of one particular framework, although we had to choose one, but on the programming patterns used to develop frameworks. This course was targeted to both undergraduates and graduates students in order to fill gaps in their knowledge. The basic idea was to follow the path of an HTTP request from the moment its is generated by a browser until it reaches the server, is processed and the response is sent back. We discussed good practice, security, different types of persistence (database, cookies, sessions, filesystem, ram) and the Model View Controller design. Most of the students had no previous python experience and no server-side programming experience. They all new HTML but minimal CSS and zero knowledge of network protocols such as HTTP. After evaluating a number of web frameworks and having tried to teach a previous course using Django I found that most of the existing frameworks have a too steep learning curve. A typical problem for example is the need for shell commands (Ruby on Rails, Django, Pylons, TurboGears, they all require use of a shell) but most students have only bee exposed to windows and they the concept of shell very alien to them. In order to solve this problem I wrote http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu (TRY THE LIVE DEMO ONLINE) (GPL license) specifically for these students. This experiment had more success than expected and all students in the class have been able to create decent projects using the framework and the best students got more involved the core development, joined the mailing list and were glad to give a real contribution to their first open source project. For some reason, since then, web2py has picked up some steam more in the business environment than in the teaching environment. Although my class was not targeted to freshmen, it could have been (with some changes). My experience with 3) is that students appreciate programming better when they develop something that they can use, that they can show their friends who are not computer scientists, and they get it. One way to do it is by programming inside a web framework (whether it is web2py or Django or Pylons does not really matter). Some things are different and some things are the same when compared with teaching "normal" programming: a) One visits a URL and a function is called, the output of the function is sent back to the browser. You still has to write the function, but the concept is more intuitive than calling a function from main(). They get it right away because it is related to their everyday experience. They also understand parameters passing because they are familiar with filling forms online. In the case of a full stack framework all of the work is actually done by the framework itself, the students only have to write the function the "returns" the response as a string. b) Conditionals are not much different than in "normal" programming. c) Loops are somewhat less important in the initial phase because there is a lot one can do without looping. This is good because it is with loops that students have the most trouble. d) Most web frameworks abstract the access to the database, therefore adding real database persistence is not much more difficult than using a member variable of a Java class. This enables students to created rich functionalities with a small set of API. e) cookie, sessions and cache add a small level of complexity but a good web framework should be able to take care of these issues transparently. web2py does. Django, Pylons and TurboGears doo to although they require some configuration. f) They do not need to know HTML because they can use an HTML WYSIWYG editor. Moreover in doing web programming at a more advanced level, two crucial CS tasks show up naturally: regular expressions (for validation of user input) and parsing (for reading HTML/XML/XML-RPC/ RSS and for all kind of tasks like parsing code embedded in a web page, for performing syntax highlighting, etc.). These are concepts that every CS major should know but we often teach them in ways that do not relate to the everyday experience of the students. ***** Anyway, the bottom line is that instead of start teaching programming using programs that interact with a shell or with a GUI, today it is becoming easier and easier to write programs that interact with the web. There is a small overhead but a lot more power and fun for the students. Personally I am going to follow this approach in other courses that I am teaching that do not require python and do not require web development. If you want to try it too and have questions let me know. I will be happy to share my experience and material. Massimo

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manifesto
by michel paul 30 Mar '08

30 Mar '08

My dept chair finally agreed to let me have an hour to present Python to the math dept during our staff development day last Friday. I knew that an hour wouldn't be enough, so I wrote a manifesto : ) which is attached. I instructed my colleagues to install Python and download the manifesto on their laptops and bring them to my room for the session. I didn't want to do it in a lab, as I didn't want them to think of Python as something remote. I wanted them to see how easily accessible all this is. When you run the manifesto, the first thing that appears is a question asking, "How many digits of pi would you like to generate today?" We decided on 1000, and as the digits were printing I exclaimed, "You've NEVER seen this happen before, have you?" That was fun. Then I had them do some bare bones Shell interactions - 2**10000, etc. I didn't dwell on Python exclusively - I showed various quotes from the 2020 report a few years ago, the recently released final report from the National Math Advisory Panel stating that research DOES bear out the usefulness of programming in math for concept formation, and an opinion piece from the American Mathematical Society on the importance of open source vs. proprietary software in mathematical discourse. I think that helped shift the discussion to another level - it was clear that I wasn't simply talking about just another kind of calculator. It seemed to go very well - during the presentation I felt that my message was getting across, and they even applauded at the end! So, slowly, slowly, slowly, resistance is being overcome. - Michel Paul P.S. The reference to the colored text and "Go Normans!" was kind of an inside joke. Black and orange are our school colors, and at the end of all announcements the principle always says, "Gooooooo Normans!"

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More on decorators
by kirby urner 30 Mar '08

30 Mar '08

Here's a little module about the power of decorators. We show decorators used in two capacities: 1. to invoke the built-in classmethod wrapper, giving us a way to invoke methods on a class with no "self objects" 2. to wrap a user-defined cost with a user-defined sales_tax with a flexible percentage (defaults to 10%). ==== taxes.py ==== from random import randint def sales_tax(sale, percent = 0.1): def vat(x): before = sale(x) after = (1 + percent) * before print("Before: %s; After: %s" % (before, after)) return after return vat class Register: shipping = 1.70 # fixed cost @sales_tax def __cost(price): return price + Register.shipping @classmethod def transact(klass, price): return klass.__cost(price) def test(): print(Register) for i in range(10): Register.transact(randint(1,100)) However, I'd consider the above too complicated, so refactor below: ==== taxes.py ==== from random import randint def sales_tax(sale, percent = 0.1): def vat(x): before = sale(x) after = (1 + percent) * before print("Before: %s; After: %s" % (before, after)) return after return vat # fixed cost shipping = 1.70 @sales_tax def cost(price): return price + shipping class Register: @classmethod def transact(klass, price): return cost(price) def test(): print(Register) for i in range(10): Register.transact(randint(1,100)) What's cooler is we're also demonstrating how decorator syntax makes as much sense outside a class definition, plus we're playing a different scope game, with Register reaching outside its class for a more global cost function (it really didn't have been inside the class def in the first example), which in turn relies on the global shipping variable. In the lesson plan I'm dreaming up, it'd be useful to show both examples, as we're showing off the freedoms you have when it comes to mixing functions and classes top level, in addition to decorator syntax. Regarding decorators, I think I good way to teach them *is* to recapitulate their motivation. Having to define the function first, before wrapping it in clunky f = g(f) syntax at the end, was making for less readable code. @ is Python's function composer, with the second argument a function def and source of the name, the first argument functional wrapper for the second i.e. @f def g(args) ... is the same as g = f(g(args)) Earlier in the buildup to such as the above, we'll look at simpler more algebraic examples of function composition . >>> def f(h): def k(x): return h(x) + 2 return k >>> @ f def g(x): return x**2 >>> print(g(10)) 102 >>> print(g(12)) 146 Then go for fancier user-defined examples, including with argument passing. >>> def f(a): if a == 1: def n(targ): def z(x): return targ(x) + 2 return z return n if a == 2: def n(targ): def z(x): return targ(x) + 3 return z return n >>> f(1)(g) <function z at 0x83c492c> >>> f(1) <function n at 0x83c48ec> >>> @f(1) def g(x): return x * x >>> g(10) 102 >>> @f(2) def g(x): return x * x >>> g(10) 103 Kirby

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Session 53 (Pythonic Math Class) on Google Video
by kirby urner 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4007622124508476663&hl=en Description: Kirby Urner addresses conferees in Crowne Plaza Hotel, March 14, 2008. This is the audio track from that event, slightly edited, supplemented with stills and short screen scenarios, added later in Portland, but in many ways matching what got screened at the talk. Kirby

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Crunchy Suggestions wanted for Google Summer of Code
by Andre Roberge 22 Mar '08

22 Mar '08

Hi everyone, The recent increase in activity in this group is nice - especially as it seems that Python is being used in an increasing number of educational institutions. I have enjoyed reading the (too few) reports about Pycon 2008. Unfortunately, I have been unable to attend. From the reports I read elsewhere, I gather that Johannes Woolard managed to interest a few more people in Crunchy; he was only one of two people (the other being Guido van Rossum) interviewed by Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://dobbscodetalk.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Johannes-Woolard-…). So, for those that have seen his talk, or talked to him, I was wondering if you have any suggestions to make for improvement to Crunchy during the upcoming Google Summer of Code. I have already been contacted by a few students already interested in doing a Crunchy-related project. Some project ideas can be found at: http://code.google.com/p/crunchy/wiki/SummerOfCodeIdeas Among them, is the following (based on an old suggestion by Jeff Elkner): === Create a collection of doctest-based problems for simple (and not so simple) Python exercises for list, strings, dicts, math functions, etc. The beginning of a collection can be found at http://code.google.com/p/doctests/source/browse; this is the list referred to at http://wiki.python.org/moin/ProblemSets/99_Prolog_Problems_Solutions for problems 1 to 6. === There are only a few days left before students start uploading their project ideas. So now is the time to make suggestions so that you can use Crunchy effectively next September ;-) André

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Re: [Edu-sig] introduction
by Laura Creighton 21 Mar '08

21 Mar '08

In a message of Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:49:39 -0400, Richard Enbody writes: >We randomly assign within assigned labs -- the labs have 16-20 >students. We assign within labs because there is a time, the assigned >lab, when students can meet. That is, the excuse "we couldn't meet" is >not valid. On a subsequent assignment we roll the dice again within the >lab and ensure that the same two do not pair up again. If a partner is >a 'no-show' we allow them to match with anyone else who is also paired >with a 'no-show'. We have considered various matching schemes, but if >I remember correctly, random is supposed to be the best way -- as >opposed to trying to match students. 16-20 is considered oversize if you want to get everybody pairing with everybody, so I would partition my class into 3 groups of 6 or 8 (or maybe 2 groups of 8 for the 16 case), and then build a rotation schemee for each group, not getting the groups to interpenetrate. Random isn't exactly what you are looking for. When people say that it is better to partner randomly, what they mean is that you need a mechanism to keep people who like working together from doing just that. But simple randomness isn't going to ensure that everybody gets to pair with everybody unless there are a really large number of sessions for 'changing pairs'. I've got some more questions: How long do you have to work with these people? How long is a lab, and how many rotations do you try to fit into a lab? and How long is a course, and how many labs in a course? How much work do you expect people to do on the programs outside of lab time? Are the labs self-contained, or do they build on each other's work? >We know about the 'driver' and 'thinker' roles and that the students >should change roles. We talk about it with students, but do not try to >enforce it. I've always had problems with that concept -- or rather, with the idea that the 'driver' is the one doing the typing, and the 'thinker' is the one doing the watching. Some students I know think a lot better when they are typing than when they aren't. Some students who aren't typing pretty much dictate what the typer is going to type. So I don't know if I am just doing something wrong, or if the model is unrealistic. >I like your model, but it would be difficult to implement here -- too >many students have too much going on (unfortunately, for many that is a >job to help them get through school). I have this problem, too, which is why we mostly can only experiment with things like that in Summer courses, and camps, where you are trying to pack what would normally be taught in 4 months or 8 months into 2. And still there are some people who cannot make the time. >On your question about not having marks -- that isn't an option. On >your question, 'what if 85% got 85%?' That would be great! Our grading >scheme is not competitive -- if you get the points, you get the grade. >In theory, everyone could get a 4.0 (A). My understanding is that you >need such a scheme for pair-programming to succeed. However, with >enough students we seem to get a spread out distribution. This is an indication that your weaker students aren't catching up enough. The question is, why? If you are trying to get rotation through groups of size 16 or 20, that is probably one contributing factor. If the assigment runs out before the students who began working on it can get back to it for a second pass, while having done other things in the meantime, then that is another factor. There are others I have seen, and some I have only heard about, such as trying to do pair programming and not doing test driven design. Are you doing that, as well? >These questions have got me thinking! Great. :-) > >-rich >enbody(a)cse.msu.edu Laura

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Re: [Edu-sig] Introducing Python to Engineering Students
by David MacQuigg 20 Mar '08

20 Mar '08

Our mandelbrot demo is working nicely, thanks to all the help I've gotten from folks on this list. We are using only the weave package, not the full SciPy install. It would be nice to show some additional examples from SciPy, however, especially tools that students will find useful in later classes. The problem is I'm not sure SciPy is ready for prime time in the undergraduate curriculum. It will look bad if this package is not as good as Matlab, which is what the students at U of A are using in many of their other courses. I would like to get some opinions on this issue from others who may have been here before. Here are my experiences so far in getting started with SciPy, trying to run it as I expect our students would, on their own machines rather than the department's Solaris machines. 1) I'm using a Windows XP machine, similar to what most of the students are using, so anything we want them to install on their own computers must work under Windows, or at least under Cygwin. Most students don't have Cygwin installed, but we can consider that as part of the package if we decide to go that route. Cygwin adds benefits beyond SciPy, of course, but disk space may be an issue. 2) I tried a direct install under Windows using the installers from http://www.scipy.org/Download NumPy 1.0.4 for Python 2.5 - numpy-1.0.4.win32-py2.5.msi SciPy 0.6.0 for Python 2.5 - scipy-0.6.0.win32-py2.5.exe The installs ran without error, but when I tried running the test scripts from each of these packages under Python 2.5, all I got was the useless "tell Microsoft" window. >>> import numpy, scipy >>> numpy.test() python.exe has encountered a problem .. please tell Microsoft ... >>> scipy.test() python.exe has encountered a problem .. please tell Microsoft ... I guess the problem is that I have not installed Microsoft's C-compiler, but neither the installers nor the test scripts tell me that. There does not seem to be any un-install utility, so I will just delete numpy/ and scipy/ from C://Python25/Lib/site-packages/ and hope that no problems remain from registry entries, egg-info files, and other gradoo left by the installers! 3) I then tried installing under Cygwin, following the incomplete instructions at http://scipy.org/Installing_SciPy/Windows from http://www.scipy.org/Download NumPy 1.0.4 - numpy-1.0.4.tar.gz SciPy 0.6.0 - scipy-0.6.0.tar.gz 3a) The numpy install and test ran without error. $ pwd /packages/Python-2.5/numpy-1.0.4 $ python setup.py install .... $ python -c 'import numpy; numpy.test()' .... Ran 692 tests in 1.593s OK 3b) The scipy install hit some snags, however, ending in a corruption of Cygwin that could only be fixed with a full reboot. $ python setup.py install --> NOT AVAILABLE: mkl, fftw3, rfftw, drfftw, ptf77blas, f77blas, ... Restarted cygwin bash shell: 13283 [main] ? (5388) C:\cygwin\bin\bash.exe: *** fatal error - system shared memory version mismatch detected - 0x75BE009C/0x8A88009C. This problem is probably due to using incompatible versions of the cygwin DLL. Search for cygwin1.dll using the Windows Start->Find/Search facility and delete all but the most recent version. The most recent version *should* reside in x:\cygwin\bin, where 'x' is the drive on which you have installed the cygwin distribution. Rebooting is also suggested if you are unable to find another cygwin DLL. 4) I then installed just the weave package from scipy, and except for a few warnings during the test run, it seems to be OK. 5) I did a google search on [scipy install] and found others having similar problems over the years. One fellow had success with the installer at http://www.enthought.com/products/epdacademic.php. I downloaded that one and ran it, a process which took several hours and created a Python25 directory with 719MB and 38814 files!!! sys.path is now crammed with 116 really messy paths. Luckily, I kept all this separate from my normal Python install. 6) I tried testing the new install. Numpy passed all tests, and SciPy got a little further, but ended with a crash. The error messages, as usual, mean nothing. .... vq.py:477: UserWarning: One of the clusters is empty. Re-run kmean with a different initialization. Running tests: ........................... crash - "python.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close ..." 7) I tried running the SciPy tutorial at http://www.scipy.org/SciPy_Tutorial in hopes that whatever failed was in some obscure function I won't need. No such luck. 2 out of 4 of the tutorials crashed Python. Basic Matrix Operations - OK Sparse Matrices - OK Numerical Integration - function quad crashes Python Integrating ODEs - function odeint crashes Python I see that Enthought has a nicely organized webpage, including a http://www.scipy.org/Developer_Zone where they are asking for help with packaging. The two environments most used by our students (PC and Macintosh) have nobody volunteering to do the packaging. What I can't tell from just a few days investigation is where is SciPy heading? Will things be working smoothly soon, or is it being eclipsed by Matlab? I've worked on both open-source and commercial projects, and I know there are some project that just don't fit one or the other model. Open-source is best when you have millions of users and thousands of potential developers. Commercial is best when there are fewer users, and those users are not typically computer experts. Thoughts anyone? -- Dave At 09:30 PM 3/13/2008 -0700, Rob Malouf wrote: >Ugh! I'm afraid I don't use windows, so I can't offer any advice. I >do know that compiling scipy wasn't that difficult under linux or mac >os x, so it shouldn't be too bad under cygwin either. There are few >extra libraries you need, but you can probably find binaries for them >out there somewhere. In fact, I'm surprised there isn't a cygwin >binary for scipy... if you get it working maybe you should post it >somewhere!

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Re: [Edu-sig] introduction
by Laura Creighton 20 Mar '08

20 Mar '08

First, welcome. re 'how to do pair programming for a course'. There is a different between 'having a team of two people do a thing' and what is generally meant by pair programming. The idea with pair programming is that people work with *different* people, not the same other person, so that everybody gets a chance to pair with the best person, and the second best, and the worst and the second worst, with the aim to diffuse information through the group. It's not clear to me, from your note, that this is what you are trying to do. How many students do you have? There is disagreement about this, but there seems rough agreement that pair programming doesn't work very well in groups over a dozen (and some say over 6). So you will need to split your class into groups and then practice pairing within the groups. (At least for one assigment. You could randomise the students for the next assigment.) The thing that I have never been able to do, and thus never been able to do pairing as teaching as part of a regular course assignment (as opposed to learning camps) is insist that everybody has to come in and everybody work from XXX o'clock to YYY o'clock swapping pairs every 30 minutes, or however you plan on doing things. Of course, the way I would set things up is to have 3 or 4 stations where different parts of what would eventually be one program are being worked. After 30 minutes, one partner would leave for a different station. From there on in, there would always be one partner (the experienced one) who has been working at that station for 30 minutes, and one partner who is new to it. After 30 minutes, from then on in, the experienced one moves -- and becomes the inexperienced one at a new station -- while the formerly experienced one becomes the experienced one at the new station. Group meetings ahead of time are necessary, of course, to plan exactly how people are going to solve the problem. Otherwise you can thrash, as new people decide that they don't like the approach that is being taken, toss it, and try things their own way, only to have their work tossed aside. Also, its important to make sure that everybody is doing test driven development before embarking on a scheme like this. Otherwise, when people add work, they either break things and are unaware of this (the other people didn't leave enough tests) or they produce work which isn't appreciated by the next comers (I have no idea why this code is here, but it looks wrong, so let's rip it out.) But around here, at any rate, students cannot, even in groups as small as 6, commit to _everybody working for the same 6 hours_ so we can implement this. There are groups who have tried this, and had fun with the concept, but there are always a self-selected set that wanted to work this way, and could arrange their schedules to match. Other people just had too much in the way of scheduling conflicts. >Unfortunately, we do get students handing in code they didn't do -- a >small minority, but a problem nonetheless. I wonder what would happen >to such students in a purely pair-programming environment. Some >research indicates that weak students would be pulled up sufficiently to >not feel a need to cheat, but not all. You need to understand what 'cheating' would be in such a context, and also what 'code they didn't do' is. If you get pairing to work properly, _everybody_ will be handing in code which they didn't do. That's the whole point. If you are setting thing up so that people work together, learn together, but then go off and write their own versions of the thing in the end, then what you are doing isn't really pair programming. So you will have to figure out exactly what it is that you want to accomplish with however you want people to work together. But your effort at doing pair programming will be completely undermined if you try to also maintain the concept of 'this is my work'. Because that sort of code-ownership is precisely what pair programming aims to remove. If this 'everybody is handing in work, only some of which they have done' is a problem at your school -- i.e. your most important job is to produce a ranking of students roughly corresponding to the best to the worst, and actually teaching them things is secondary, then you will have problems implementing any sort of pair programming scheme. So, a question -- let us say you came up with a final exam which you thought would test the ability of the students to know the material. And let us say you gave them to your class and 85% of them got 85% or more on the test. Would that be a problem for you? Your students? Because this is the outcome that pair programming is aiming for -- so if you don't want to arrive there, then you may be better off _not_ doing pair programming, though letting people work in groups or teams. Is it possible to do without marks altogether and just do Pass/Fail? What sort of rewards and punishments you are required to implement will influence how well you can get pair programming to work for your goals, which I am interpreting primarily as raising the level of the weaker students, which may be a mistake on my part. When I was in school 'picking the best people to form an assignment team' (which you were then stuck with for the whole course) was the most important choice you could make in terms of getting the highest marks, and all the best students, who by second year, _knew_ they were the best students, had no interest in having anybody who wasn't one of the best students in their group. >I do need to get to PyCon and other Python venues, but travel funds are >an issue. Here, the only travel funds are what you generate on research >grants, and since none are related to Python I cannot use them. I need >to be more creative. :-) The PSF has a grant program, designed with people like you in mind. I don't know if we are going to have a pair programming clinic at Europython this year, but watch the Europython space and see what gets announced. http://www.europython.org/community Europython has a grant program as well, and there was some talk of having the PSF possibly fund some people's travel to Europython. <snip> >-rich >enbody(a)cse.msu.edu Good luck, and I can write a whole lot more about this, but I suspect this is already long enough, Laura Creighton

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More followup after Chicago Pycon
by kirby urner 20 Mar '08

20 Mar '08

Hey, great seeing Jonah archiving here some! Way to go guy. Been studying your websites ever since Pycon, saw the footnote to Art of Memory by F.A. Yates, likewise highly important in the syllabus I go off. Excellent readings. Just wanted to share some more I learned thanks to Pycon, before I forget: So you know there're IronScheme (successor to IronLisp) and IronRuby yes? These plus this community's agile (on whatever VMs) has a bright future on open standard shared platforms, where you reap the benefits of synergy between languages i.e. Scheme really is much better for some things, as in Ruby in others. As a respectful alien, I see Ruby Planet as more like another Perl Republic, but then JavaScript is sporting list comprehensions and yield-based generator syntax these days (something else I learned at Pycon), so like the computer language DNA goes every which way doesn't it (like let's hear it for Icon). That's what open source is all about: sharing the wealth (I suppose what Commonwealth is supposed to mean, but I'm not from the UK so don't claim to be an authority). So I got one of those dreaded emails from a publisher wanting to discuss book prospects right at the conference, but sending it to my "at the office and not on the road address" so I wake up to read it eleven hours later by car (marathon road blitz -- why are those sections of I-net all *toll roads* in the eastern US? Our freeways out west are still free as in beer). I've missed some recent Pycons, plus OLPC was not a big topic at that Shuttleworth summit (about exactly a year back, remembering London Knowledge Lab was looking pretty empty because of bank holiday aka easter **). So this was a great opportunity to "catch the vibe" as they say, feel the excitement around the XOs (yes I have one, as my blog readers might know, write about it in connection with Unicode mostly (I have an interest in some exotic character sets)). That's not to say all is perfect in that picture, which seems chaordic in the extreme. ^^ Anyway, back in Portland, whew! Kirby PS: just saw about Arthur C. Clarke, great positive futurist dreamer, an inspiration, man of courage. ** http://www.bfi.org/bfi_community/pythonic_mathematics_talk_by_kirby_urner ^^ http://www.chaordic.org/

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