Mailman 3 November 2004 - Edu-sig

Re: [Tutor] what? (late nite entertainment) (*)
by Gregor Lingl 25 Mar '05

25 Mar '05

Now: early morning corrections ... Alfred Milgrom wrote: > Hi Gregor: > > Hard to work out what is what :) as there seems to be a typo in one > line of your code: > > if x[z]: x[z*z:n:z]=y[z*z:n:z] > > (At least it doesn't work on my machine with Python 2.2) > Yeah, I had the idea when playing around with some new features of Python 2.3, as I do sometimes late at night - before shutting down my computer. This one I found at: http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/whatsnew/section-slices.html and I looked for an example for use of "assignment with extended slices" ... > Also the subroutine breaks for n = 1 or less. > Maybe you need a line at the start to say > if n <2 : return [0] > what() was intended to generate all primes less than n. (In fact it's an implementation of the sieve of Eratosthenes). The bugs came not only from not beeing interested in primes less than 2 ;-) but also from beeing a little tired already. Sorry. I think the following version repairs that - and hopefully uses less obfuscating variable names (which in fact originally was part of the "riddle"): def primes(n): sieve, zeros = range(n), [0]*n sieve[:2]= 0,0 i = 1 while i*i < n: if sieve[i]: sieve[i*i:n:i]=zeros[i*i:n:i] i += 1 return [p for p in sieve if p] Regards, Gregor >

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Re: A better way?
by Jeff Sandys 03 Dec '04

03 Dec '04

I showed this thread at the SeaPIG meeting and we talked about handling attributes. I pointed out that the dot is an operator and that you can have a space between the dot, and the group didn't believe me until they tried it. >>> s = "my string" >>> s . split() ['my', 'string'] I think by showing the students that dot is an operator helps them understand what is going on and they might not be so concerned about making the long variable and method dotted chains. Thanks, Jeff Sandys ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.

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teaching Python
by Darren Payne 02 Dec '04

02 Dec '04

Sorry all - this post will probly stir up a commotion. I have been keen on Python for quite a while. I have tried using it ti teach programming in a high school situation and would have liked to extend into PyGame. Sadly, though I feel I DO understand object oriented concepts, I DO NOT have any idea of determining what objects to create. Similarly, as there is SO MUCH to learn before one becomes capable of completing even simple tasks like a blackjack cardgame (with gui too) ... I am finding students get turned off before they even get a chance to see what can be done. I know ... it must be just me and the way I teach it. However, I have recently revisited Gamemaker. I saw it a few years ago and could not make much sense of it. But now it is up to version 6, there are loads of fantastic tutorials to follow along with. I have introduced it to classes from Yr7 - 10 and they love it whereas only 2 - 3 of the really "nerdy", "geeky" kids appreciated Python! My feeling is that Python will never be widely used (in schools) unless we can get a PyGamemaker package. Even girls have a ball with gamemaker! regards Darren ===== ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- regards Darren Payne Hurlstone Agricultural High School Ph: 9829 9222 Fax: 98292026 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com

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re: Leo - python killer app?
by Arthur 01 Dec '04

01 Dec '04

Bill writes - >Just wondering if those on this list are familiar with the unique Leo >outliner. I am just an avid user of it.... but I think it may be a >instructional "killer app" for Python. :) Leo has gotten enough generally good press that your recommendation pushed me over the top, and I spent an hour or so with Leo. >The best features are probably not what are discussed when introducing >it ... so you might have overlooked it. As a teaching tool I think it >would be terrific. You are right, I think, that one can get a false impression of it's intent. I had understood its primary focus to be as a collaboration tool for larger development projects, and with a steep learning curve. And if the kind of folks involved with large development projects were to be warned of its learning curve, it was - I thought - not something I would want to undertake. Yet, it seemed manageable. And I can understand where your thinking is leading. DrScheme has a mechanism for loading lesson plans. I can see how *.leo files could be used to serve a similar purpose. Nicely. Perhaps very nicely. I like that it "makes do" with Tkinter. It plays to my sense of minimalism. I like keeping my python tree clean and simple. And it seems to suggest there is more to Tkinter than people tend to think. I *didn't* like that my source files ended up with Leo encodings/directives. So that my source - read outside of Leo - was less humanly readable after its encounter with Leo than it was before. Though I don't know what button I pushed to make this happen, what functionality it adds to Leo in working with the source, and to what extent it might be avoidable. Kirby is right that Jason had touted it before. "Killer app" I'll take a look at. I tend to shy away from "new paradigm"s. But in fairness to Jason I kidded him a bit about the "new paradigm" appellation he attached to Leo, and he admitted to perhaps some hyperbolic wording. I do think the idea of an executable textbook via Leo makes sense, though of course its all in the execution of the executable. Art

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RE: [Edu-sig] teaching Python
by Daniel Ajoy 29 Nov '04

29 Nov '04

I've always wanted to teach myself *inferential* statistics through programming, but most of the examples of statistics being taught through programming are *descriptive* statistics. Most of the simple programs that you see in old BASIC books that deal with statistics are, descriptive statistics. Most *inferential* statistics algorithms are overly technical or boring, and don't contribute to the understanding of inferential statistics. Eg, chi-square-distribution algorithm. I'm thinking that the problem arises because inferential statistics deal with population with an infinite number of members, or infinite many samples. Daniel On 28 Nov 2004 at 12:00, edu-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > For example, when doing stats, it's common to want a list of random numbers. > It'd be useful to have a function with three parameters: min and max to > specify the range for the random integers, and a howmany. > > >>> from random import randint > >>> def getrand(min, max, howmany): > return [randint(min,max) for i in range(howmany)] > > >>> mylist = getrand(0,100,10) > >>> mylist > [0, 58, 53, 47, 89, 61, 60, 87, 12, 18] > > Then we could do stuff like: > > >>> def mean(somelist): > return sum(somelist)/float(len(somelist)) # or use truedivision > > >>> mean(mylist) > 48.5 > > Then on to standard deviation, divergence, and so on. Very short programs. > Lots of command line exploration. Then save the short programs in a module > for reuse later. >

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ponto -- first public release
by Dr. Ludger Humbert 28 Nov '04

28 Nov '04

Dear python-edu-sig people, last week two of my students decided to put a nice piece of software under GPL, so you may take a closer look at it. What is Ponto? ============== ponto is a small piece of software to enable *informatics education* by building object oriented documents and using OpenOffice.org. ponto is released under GPL. At the moment two languages namely german and english are supported. ponto will start OpenOffice.org (writer) and communicates via pyuno-bridge. How to use Ponto? ================= example use (with OpenOffice.org bundled python) [Linux] /usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.2/program/python [Mac OS X] /Applications/OpenOffice1.1.2/program/python from ponto import Document birthdayInvitation=Document() opening=birthdayInvitation.createParagraph("Hi friend,") mainText=birthdayInvitation.createParagraph("as you know, ...") ... more information (incl. source-code) at http://www.ham.nw.schule.de/pub/bscw.cgi/0/73468 http://ddi.cs.uni-dortmund.de/projekte/ponto Ludger Humbert

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Leo - python killer app?
by bill palmer 28 Nov '04

28 Nov '04

Just wondering if those on this list are familiar with the unique Leo outliner. I am just an avid user of it.... but I think it may be a instructional "killer app" for Python. :) The best features are probably not what are discussed when introducing it ... so you might have overlooked it. As a teaching tool I think it would be terrific. It is programmable with Python ...and is written in Python. You can use Leo's Execute Script to run any Python code ...even the current selection. It is unparalleled as an interactive experimental environment. You do not have to keep doing file save for each iteration...more like using a spreadsheet. The application window has three "panes": 1. One window with an outline of pages "headlines". 2. A log pane for system messages...and I set the default to capture Std-Out. 3. A body pane where the pages in the outline are edited. The information is stored in an XML file. The outline is able to write out the files within the XML outline to update or create the "real" external files. Its primary focus is as a programming IDE(for any language). I like to use the outline pages within Leo for program data sources and scripts together... so then there really are no external files...the data and the scripts are read and processed within the Leo outline itself. (For certain learning exercises this may be ideal.) It is Python and so completely cross-platform. Also it is a "Literate Programming" tool which may be of interest as a computer science demo on that basis as well. Teachers might like this even for non-programming purposes since the outline could contain everything for a particular lesson in any course. Each .leo outline is sort of like an electronic file cabinet. It even allows information to be replicated and appear in multiple places within the outline...called cloning(changes made to a clone are automatically done to other identical clones). The outline nodes can be just one fragment of a file(or script). If Leo ever became generally popular(as an organizer), then this would provide an inroad to Python acceptance at your school. Just open the .leo files that come with it to see examples. Forum link...... http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=10227 (select Files or Home in sourceForge to go to downloads) Highly, highly recommended! :) regards, bill p

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Re: [Edu-sig] teaching Python
by John Zelle 28 Nov '04

28 Nov '04

Darren, Just a very quick note here. This is interesting background to your post, much appreciated. Darren Payne wrote: >Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. >I am very (very) fortunate - I teach in one of our > <snip> >gets in the way for about 3 months! After this I >turned to Python and have used your book along with >Michael Dawson's book. These classes progress very >slowly - so we have only reached doing somehting with >your graphics.py by the end of a 10 week term. > This is a problem with the published form of my book. During the review process, there is a tendency to add material to make some sections "more complete." There is tremendous pressure here, due fear that if you leave out something mentioned by any reviewer, you are losing potential adoptions. The end result is that what starts as a nice focused book turns into a bloated paper doorstop. While my book is less bloated than the average intro book, it's still not as slim as I'd like. When I teach the class, I try to get to graphics very quickly. I do that by skipping or skimming large chunks of material in the beginning of the book. I don't dwell on chapters 1 and 2, since those topics will recurr over and over again. I simply skip much of Chapter 4, just covering the basic string operations. In fact, you could easily skip the entire chapter and just jump to graphics. I think the younger my audience, the quicker I would go to Chapter 5. > I keep >arguing with myself trying to work out how to get the >students doing more rather than me having to work it >out and then show them every step - but if i don't do >the latter they just sit there and play on the >internet. > >So now I have turned to gamemaker. You are >corect with regards algorithms and data representation >etc .... however I am making great use of the >tutorials from the gamemaker. Students are given these >to work through and "DO" using different sprites, >sounds etc. The good thing is the really keen kids are >asking questions that "require" them to learn what you >talk of. In short Python / Java - whole bunch of stuff >to learn and be quite good at before we can "DO" >something interesting. Gamemaker - "DO" interesting >stuff straight up ... but if you want to tweak it in >any way ... then you have to learn data structures, >variables, OO, data representation etc. > > > This and Kirby's post have convinved me that, at least for your better students, Gamemaker is giving them something of lasting value. If it piques their curiousity about programming, maybe you can at least get some of them pointed to computing studies later in their academic careers. --John

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Re: [Edu-sig] Python and statistics
by John Miller 27 Nov '04

27 Nov '04

I just happened on this message from the python-tutors list and thought it might be of interest. I haven't used R or RPy at all. John Miller > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:15:20 +0430 > From: "Lee Harr" <missive(a)hotmail.com> > Subject: [Tutor] Re: Python and statistics > To: tutor(a)python.org > >> If anyone has any specific ideas, particularly where the goal is to >> use >> Python to assist in grasping the concepts of a typical introductory >> college >> Statistics class - their input would be appreciated. >> > > > I have been playing with pyr -- python bindings to the R statistics > package: > http://www.r-project.org/ > http://rpy.sourceforge.net/ > > Way more statistics power than I will (hopefully ;o) ever need. On Nov 26, 2004, at 6:00 AM, Arthur <ajsiegel(a)optonline.net> wrote: > My son is coming home from college for the long weekend, and in our > last > conversation mentioned that the only thing standing in the way of him > achieving the kinds of grades he would like to see for himself is the > trouble he is having in his Statistcs class, and that maybe I could > work > with him on it over the weekend. > > An unusual request, from him. He must be desperate ;) > > Truth is, I have little feel for the subject - beyond having done > adequately > in a class 30 years ago in business school. Nor do I have a particular > interest in the subject. > > But a father's duty calls... > > I am hoping to at least explore the possibility of subcontracting some > this > job to Python. I know there are many possibilities, and a number of > modules > available that could come into play. > > If anyone has any specific ideas, particularly where the goal is to use > Python to assist in grasping the concepts of a typical introductory > college > Statistics class - their input would be appreciated. > > Art

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Re: Python and statistics
by Lee Harr 27 Nov '04

27 Nov '04

>I just happened on this message from the python-tutors list and thought >it might be of interest. I haven't used R or RPy at all. > Thanks for forwarding that... I got my lists mixed up :o) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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