Mailman 3 July 2007 - Edu-sig

Python for Halloween
by kirby urner 21 Oct '07

21 Oct '07

Something about using 'ghost' in place of 'self' in a Shell class (allusion to anime as well). Maybe I did something like this last year (having deja vu again). But I'm realizing edu-sig is no longer a preferred venue for my curriculum writing. I'd rather huddle with MIT, Bruce Sherwood, Alan Kay and play *against* Arthur's team. Arthur, you make too many enemies too quickly and too easily. Even more, I'm into my Portland Knowledge Lab (PKL) business (gotta pay that rent today) and want to make lots of Python and Synergetics teaching cartoons for HDTV (my Saturday Morning meme), with lots of brand name sponsors. But here is not the place to brainstorm in safety. Too many prying eyes and self-appointed kibbitzers. So I'm actually resigning this time. Don't expect me back any time soon. Probably won't be tracking either, at least not with any frequency. For me, it's a tilt towards private lists and closed source development (not exclusively -- I'm still a big supporter of a strong public sector). I'm learning why open source is a bad idea sometimes. I've talked to Stallman about this, though he probably doesn't remember -- I was in his audience in Portland and asked about situations when "they" simply *don't deserve* your best code. But I think more it's a matter of not wanting to show unfinished work (a big no no in Fuller's self discipline, according to 'Critical Path' I think it was). Kirby

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Apropos "crunchy"...
by kirby urner 31 Jul '07

31 Jul '07

I noted Nat's use of "crunchy" during the keynotes, found other instances, of "crunchy" used as an attribute of talks, presentations. A "crunchy talk" has more technical content, as typified by the keynote on doing parallel processing in Haskell (what Parrot is waiting for?). Actually it was about transactional memory, inspired by database folk (like me!) and their ACID. Atomic tasks with all-or-nothing commit (rollback if blocked) plus "else choose" capabilities, makes for intelligent parallel programming, the next big challenge for many programmers. Speaking of which, it seems clear to me that C++ ain't goin' anywhere any time soon. Intel's preferred solution for parallel processing is a new C++ compiler with templates adapted to multi-tasking. This won't be your grandfather's supercomputing though. The extra CPU horses may get used for rather "mundane" background tasks, such as font smoothing. I want to hear the bed time story that goes with "mommy, why isn't there a C++ Python offering?" From C to Java to C#... to Python itself. Aren't we missing something in that loop? Python in Haskell? Not what I was thinking. And for my next item on this crunchy diet, it's time to upload a composition (a picture) of this robot penguin I first saw in demo mode at Europython, purchased on sale at OSCON, from a French-English speaking geek grrrl with a wacky keyboard (OK, wacky for *me*, artificially slowed by QWERTY that I am as a writer). More re Crunchy the Penguin in my blog: http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2007/07/tux-is-alive.html Kirby

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Important new release (was: Crunchy security advisory)
by Andre Roberge 30 Jul '07

30 Jul '07

A new release (0.9.2) containing a very important security fix is available for Crunchy, at http://code.google.com/p/crunchy Anyone using Crunchy *should* download this release. Fairly detailed information about the security issue can be found on the FAQ page included in Crunchy's release (viewable from Crunchy's left menu). André Crunchy is an application that transforms an otherwise static html page into an interactive Python session. ========= It appears that a previous message meant to be sent to crunchy-discuss and edu-sig was not forwarded appropriately from Google groups (at least, I did not get a copy). If you get this message in duplicate, please accept my apologies.

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Pretalk talking points (P4E)
by kirby urner 27 Jul '07

27 Jul '07

In the spirit of open sourcing stuff, I'm jotting some last minute thoughts for my talk, which I'll print out and have with me at the podium, probably with annotations, other markup. I'm recalling Novell's Miguel (de Icaza) showing off the rotating cube of desktop motifs in earlier OSCONs, the applause. But now that it's a reality on my Ubuntu Dell, geeks seem hesitant to revel in eye candy (I've seen no rotating cube in any presentation so far -- were they big last year?). Either it's ho hum or let's leave it to OS X to pioneer "trendy" (as in iPhone or whatever). Not sure what it is. Anyway, I don't take that slant. I'm planning to be Bold with Beryl (r.c. 0.4.2 or something). In the context of this morning's keynotes, my presentation is somewhat about branding, less so about Python (kwel logo) and more so about me and my 4D meme, which I've used as a prefix for the two subsidiaries: Solutions and Studios. My logo appears on the top and bottom facets of the Beryl cube, as well as @ myspace.com/4dstudios. So on each facet (4 of them, top and bottom not counted), I'll have a different show and tell item. Screen 0 = slides, which anchor my narrative. Screen 1 = IDLE, from whence I might sneak a peek at the source and/or run some short demos. Screen 2 = VLC paused in Code Guardian, to help with my slides about Real Time versus Render Time output. Screen 3 (last but not least): Firefox, with a bunch of pages preopened in tabs. The context: we're already over the hump with the open source languages, even some some closed ones, regarding their relevance to "cave painting" in an educational context. I explain what that means using several illustrative slides. The Python stuff that I pander has everything to do with my vision for the local economy. We're a ToonTown in the making, since long before I got here, and BioTech is another big win, along the existing chip fabs, OSDL, other big players. Clients for "toons" include these technology companies, NGOs, other institutions and think tanks (e.g. wwwanderers.org). I'm not just talking about Roger Rabbit here. I'm talking about hemoglobin, geospatial simulations, all the "professional adult cartoons" we call "visualizations" and read Tufte regarding. So that explains also my very biological approach, of proteins, biota, animals (or other similar scale) for expressions, functions, class types. Modules = Ecosystems. Snakes have __ribs__. We're big on biology (OHSU etc.). Then comes the long digression into string.Template, which has to do with Office Automation. The initial big application of PCs was word processing (their first "killer" role -- witness death of the typewriter, probably calculators next). And the big application of word processing, abetted by spreadsheet and database, was the "mail merge." When it comes to kids, they like Mad Libs. Let's start there and roll forward through a some examples of boilerplate "view languages": POV-Ray's SDL, Vpython's API, and X3D. Tie in the "mail merge" idea and use that to motivate a discussion of back end databases, with Venn Diagrams tying to MySQL. In sum: "template" remains an important abstraction, is the same "boilerplate" that used to come from lawyers more than from today's coders. Boilerplate shapes the View while the database (Model) keeps the raw vital records. Thirdly, some Controller (WordPerfect?) mediates between them, giving us form letters, address labels, or GUI views on a screen (perhaps with write access back to the Model). Smattered in between: more bio about me, cuz it's my company that I'm branding. The success of IDLE in spreading Python to a vast base of Windows users was a shot heard 'round the world, still with echoing repercussions (mostly good ones). That's about it. the Saturday Academy brand (going on 24 years) gets some air time, my HP4E and the whole business about Geography (my segue to/from Polyhedra, as "Platonic planets") now much amplified as a result of this convention (glad to see my intuitions were on target). We'll just fade out at the philosophy part, as that's where my "keep Portland weird" background paper picks up (the one I wrote for the Lithuania presentation), and which is more of a formal paper (with endnotes and everything), less a slide show, much less a "switching desktops" screencast. I'll post more about how it all went later sometime. Or watch my blogs (RSS feeds available). Kirby PS: I do confess to collecting "positive collateral" regarding snake iconography. An obvious example: the caduceus, used as a trademark by Physicians and others of the medical persuasion. We think of them as healers. Also: positive links to Dragonology, but more about that in some other venue. We don't want edu-sig to get sucked into my HP4E too deeply ("HP wuh? Harry Potter for everyone?")

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Blog posts re OSCON
by kirby urner 26 Jul '07

26 Jul '07

Not seeing a flood of posts here, which I gather is good news. Certainly I'm scaling back. Anyway, I'm posting a lot about OSCON 2007 (the 9th OSCON), including some education-related chatter, with some segues to/from EuroPython. My talk, about teaching Python in Portland, its implications for world domination, is tomorrow. Ran into Guido this morning. More in my blogs (worldgame, controlroom, mybizmo at blogspot.com). OK, Ubuntu Community manager, Jono Bacon, is giving his stump speech "How To Herd Cats and Influence People." Urner out. PS: I've seen Anna here, Guido, but if there're other edu-sig subscribers here at the Convention Center willing to track me down and say "hi", I'd be appreciative.

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Python editors for newbies?
by Clare Richardson 24 Jul '07

24 Jul '07

I'd like to get some opinions on the different Python editors and how well they work for teaching Python as a first programming language. We're thinking about using Dr. Python, since I'd like to keep away from the command line. Thoughts? Clare Richardson Technology and Program Coordinator Girlstart www.girlstart.org <http://www.girlstart.org/> 512.916.4775 512.916.4776 fax Celebrate 10 Years of Success Girlstart Luxury Vacation Raffle <http://www.girlstart.org/anniversary/>

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Re: [Edu-sig] curriculum
by Bryan 24 Jul '07

24 Jul '07

thank you all for your recommendations. i'm going to go with joseph ehlers suggestion and look more deeply into "Computer Programming is Fun" since it's *exactly* what it was after. joseph, great job reading my mind!! to answer some of the other's, this is for a real school course not an after school class. and i really do want to teach the real python language, not a variant, logo, turtle, scratch, etc. CPIF seems very well thought out and professional. and IMO which you may or not agree with me and that's ok :), is i think it's great that the author brought the lesson plans down to an introductory level without "dummying down" or "watering down" the language. it's still python, using the python interpreter and still 100% applicable to the real world as-is. joseph, how many lessons do you make out of the book? do you give homework assignments or is it all done in class? i only have enough time and money to teach 1 class, 1 hour per week. that's really why i suggested the minimum requirement be algebra because i need to filter down the number of kids that would want to take the class. but like i said before, i can filter the kids down anyway i want. maybe algebra isn't the best way to do it. but i have to do something that is fair and reasonable. i'm not a teacher by trade, i design and architect software for a living and i have been evangelizing python for many years now and getting python projects started throughout the companies i've worked for. my company gives us paid time off to volunteer anything we want and i thought this would be a great opportunity to teach python to kids. it's great to have a language that you can develop sophisticated professional level programs with, and at the same time be able to teach an introductory level class for kids. i wish i learned python as my first programming language instead of TRS-80 BASIC. thanks, bryan

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curriculum
by Bryan 23 Jul '07

23 Jul '07

hi, i have the opportunity to teach python at the local public school and my company will pay for my time off of work to volunteer. i talked to the school and i can set the curriculum and the age of the students how i want. the grades available to me are K-12. my question to this email list is does anyone have a curriculum that i could borrow from. i need to put together a syllabus and plan for 18 1 hour sessions. i'm thinking about setting minimum requirement to those that have taken at least 1 quarter of algebra. if you think that's not the right thing to do please let me know. thanks, bryan

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Re: [Edu-sig] Politics and Python in Education (meta on list charter)
by Peter Bowyer 22 Jul '07

22 Jul '07

At 17:13 21/07/2007, kirby urner wrote: >The only problem I see in terms of reducing Kirby's "dominance" >(measured as "relative frequency of posts"?), is I'm one of those >actively teaching Python in a classroom setting. I think frequency and length are a good measure of dominance. Because it comes across like Kirby's or Paul's Journal - it's not often asking for input or in response to others' questions, it's information from you being shared. There's valuable information there, but it's not fitting for an email list. I mean 19kb Paul in response to my post! >This idea that I'm just sitting back in an armchair, pontificating >and theorizing, might fit some other subscribers here, but not me. > >In Portland, Oregon, we actually teach mathematics using Python. >That's just the reality on the ground. I use edu-sig to file notes on >how we're doing that, helping to spread competence to other >gnu math teachers out there (a growing army). But is that edu-sig's role? I'd say no - that's something for your own website/blog to fulfill, not a general discussion list. I'd certainly not want you to never provide feedback, but give us brief updates on what you're finding works every so often and let us read it on your site if we choose. It comes back to whether the list is viewed as information dissemination or a community. I would strongly argue for the latter, as the former can be done by individuals. Dominance by a few people doesn't build for an open community either, or even community. >I'm also a busy professional, a DBA for a team of eminent heart >surgeons, with clinical data going back to the 1960s (among other >hats that I wear). I have great respect for the amount you manage to do, one day I may reach this level of productivity! In the end it's up to the list mom (an invention sorely missed these days) to say what we can and cannot do. I mean no disrespect to your work by these postings Kirby. Regards, Peter

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Re: [Edu-sig] Politics and Python in Education (meta on list charter)
by Peter Bowyer 22 Jul '07

22 Jul '07

At 00:21 19/07/2007, Guido wrote: >discussions. Almost nobody has spoken in defense of you or Kirby, many >responded with an enthusiastic "+1" to my original proposal to ban >politics. I missed your original post, but a heartfealt +1 from me. I took Arthur to task once and he left the list for a short while - it'd be nice not to have edu-sig dominated by one or two people again. Can I propose we talk about what we're trying and what works, and make this the list-focus? In the context of deploying Python as a teaching aid (or the language for a Computer Science course) I don't give a damn about what education *should* be. I want to hear the approaches others are finding successful, I want to hear what people are doing/planning to do and their ideas. I don't want a load of theoretical talk - I'll join another mailing list for that. Please - can we keep this one a list where busy professionals (and those interested) can read, talk, share & learn in a pragmatic manner? Let's keep it a useful list for people who want to do something educational using Python and need advice or feedback. I have no problem with the odd bit of theory coming up ("I've always thought this way would work..." or "Have you seen this approach proposed by XYZ?") - to show we're keeping education in mind it should be there. But this list is a community, not a platform for a couple of people to air their views and dominate. I don't work in an educational institution. I did my masters' thesis on physics & python [1] and am still on this list here because it's a subject close to my heart and I want to keep up with what others are doing, and contribute if I have anything to offer. Peter References 1. http://peter.mapledesign.co.uk/writings/physics/teaching-introductory-progr… -- Maple Design Ltd - Web design and application development http://www.mapledesign.co.uk +44 (0)845 123 8008 Reg. in England no. 05920531

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