Mailman 3 May 2014 - Edu-sig

a short essay about programming
by kirby urner Dec. 8, 2022

Dec. 8, 2022

A common "error" (not too serious) that I see in beginning Python (and no doubt other languages, but Python is the one I'm teaching), is having a while condition that appears to put a lid on things, but then the flow all leaks away through break statements, such that the "front door" condition is never revisited. while guess != secret: guess = int(input("Guess?: ") if guess == secret: print("You guessed it!") break else: print("Nope, try again...") What's messed up about the above code is you never really go back to the top in the case where you'd get to leave. Rather, you exit by the back door, through break. So in that case, wouldn't have been simpler and more elegant, even more "correct" (dare I say it) to have gone: while True: # no ifs ands or buts guess = int(input("Guess?: ") if guess == secret: print("You guessed it!") break else: print("Nope, try again...") I see lots of heads nodding, and that could be the end of the matter, but then a next question arises: wouldn't this also be a more correct solution?: while guess != secret: guess = int(input("Guess?: ") if guess == secret: print("You guessed it!") continue # instead of break else: print("Nope, try again...") We're back to having a variable while condition, not a boolean constant, but this time we actually exit by means of it, thanks to continue or... while guess != secret: guess = int(input("Guess?: ") if guess == secret: print("You guessed it!") else: print("Nope, try again...") ... thanks to no continue. This last one is getting a thumbs up, but then I'd pause here and say "continue" can be easier on the eyes. It's unambiguous where it takes you, in contrast to having to scan on down the gauntlet, looking for possibly other open doors. "What happens next" should not require scanning ahead too far. Help us not to get lost. Be a civic-minded coder. I'm thinking of a programming style that advises two things: (a) if you use a while condition that's variable, that's expected to change, then your goal should be to always exit because of that, i.e. that should be your only exit point. Even if some other criterion suggests exiting, you have the option to flip that "lid" at the top, to crack that front door, and bounce the ball out. (b) which is why 'continue' is your friend. You are showing the user where your 'break' statements are, except you don't use "break" statements, as you've given a non-constant condition, and your aim is to make that your ONLY exit point. In short: never use break to exit a while loop unless your condition is while True. Instead, always flip the condition and exit through the font door. However, as soon as I make that rule I can think of good reasons to break it. The other programmers in the room are shaking their heads. Won't we lose information, needed elsewhere in the program, if we "artificially" force a True condition to False. Aren't we, in effect, lying? That concern could be addressed. Keep all the info true, just treat the "lid condition" (it "keeps a lid on it") as a flag. Go ahead and remember the user's guess. allowed = 5 tries = 1 exit = False while not exit: # no other way out guess = int(input("Guess?: ") if guess == secret: print("You guessed it!") exit = True # instead of break continue print("Nope, try again...") tries += 1 if tries == allowed: print("You've maxed out") exit = True continue I think we all understand the main issue: writing reader-friendly code, and rules for doing so. There's something comforting about approaching a while loop and knowing its not a leaky sieve, riddled with back doors, maybe even an exit( ) time bomb. But in the recursion world we want a minimum of two exits usually: when another round is called for versus when we've "hit bottom". Can we have it both ways? Conclusions: Lets not be too hasty with rules of thumb and: Lets keep the reader in mind when writing code. Just because the interpreter knows to compute the flow unambiguously, doesn't mean all ways of writing it are equally reader-friendly. What may seem a gratuitous gesture, an unnecessary flourish, may actually promote reader comprehension of your code, and that should be a goal as much as satisfying the interpreter. Kirby

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Re: [Edu-sig] Getting more involved with education and the PSF...
by Jeff Elkner Jan. 9, 2015

Jan. 9, 2015

Two questions: 1. Andre, what do I need to do to begin maintaining that page? 2. Is there anyone in this thread not on edu-sig? My next reply will go only to the list. On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Jessica Nickel <jessanickel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sounds like a plan. I would be happy to talk with Selena about the work to > bridge the gap between k-12 educators and Python programmers. I was a k-12 > teacher for 10 years (music) and I have been working in schools with my > program to teach python coding to kids for the past year and a half, so I do > have some experience in that area. > > > > > On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Jeff Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> wrote: >> >> Great! So it seems we have two short term goals: >> >> 1. Get someone to agree to maintain the website (I'm volunteering if >> there isn't anyone else chomping at the bit to do it). >> 2. Reach out to Selena Deckelman to help her with her efforts to >> bridge the gap between developers and K-12 teachers (a noble goal >> indeed!). >> >> Do we agree that edu-sig is the sensible place to hold this conversation? >> >> If we do, can we ask Selena to join the list if she is not already >> there? I'll also encourage folks like Lee Harr (cc'd here), the >> creator of the wonderful Pynguin environment >> (https://code.google.com/p/pynguin/) to join the list and the >> discussion. >> >> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > One point of info I can add - the person you're thinking of running for >> > PSF >> > board is Selena Deckelman, who was on Nate's panel at the edu summit. >> > She's >> > been very into bridging the gap between developers and K-12 teachers. >> > >> > Naomi > >

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Changes to edu-sig web page...
by Jeff Elkner June 17, 2014

June 17, 2014

I spent much of the National Day of Civic Hacking working on our web page: https://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/edu-sig The main task was fixing broken links. I believe I got them all, but please let me know if I missed any. I added two links that Philip Guo sent me, and I also added a link to Pynguin. I had to remove content that could no longer be found. Jeff Elkner

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some Unicode source: testing 1-2-3
by Kirby Urner May 29, 2014

May 29, 2014

The code below, which I've shared before in an earlier draft, is meant to test mailman's Unicode abilities i.e. when I check the archives, is everything intact, font-wise etc. Thanks to two of my OST students for helping out. I18N is to be OST's theme at OSCON this year so I consider this work "on the clock" as we say. Kirby Urner O'Reilly School of Technology ====== """ Includes: PlaneNets (ПлейнНэт) from Synergetics for A, B, E, T, S Koski breakdowns of some shapes in E and S vols with phi scaling Euler volume, modified by Gerald de Jong http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/quadvols.html Kirby Urner (c) MIT License Министерство Глупых Походок Министерство образования """ from math import sqrt, hypot # sqrt: квадратный_корень class ПлейнНэт: """Любой шесть край тет в шаблоне описано в API нот""" def __init__(self, oa, ob, oc, ab, bc, ca): self.oa = oa self.ob = ob self.oc = oc self.ab = ab self.bc = bc self.ca = ca class Тетраэдр: """ Займет шесть края тетраэдра с лицами (а, б, г) (б, в, д) (с, а, е) (д, д, е) - объем возвращается если IVM и XYZ """ def __init__(self, a,b,c,d,e,f): self.a, self.a2 = a, a**2 self.b, self.b2 = b, b**2 self.c, self.c2 = c, c**2 self.d, self.d2 = d, d**2 self.e, self.e2 = e, e**2 self.f, self.f2 = f, f**2 def ivm_объем(self): return ((self._addopen()- self._addclosed() - self._addopposite())/2) ** 0.5 def xyz_объем(self): return sqrt(8/9) * self.ivm_volume() def _addopen(self): a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2 = self.a2, self.b2, self.c2, self.d2, self.e2, self.f2 sumval = f2*a2*b2 sumval += d2 * a2 * c2 sumval += a2 * b2 * e2 sumval += c2 * b2 * d2 sumval += e2 * c2 * a2 sumval += f2 * c2 * b2 sumval += e2 * d2 * a2 sumval += b2 * d2 * f2 sumval += b2 * e2 * f2 sumval += d2 * e2 * c2 sumval += a2 * f2 * e2 sumval += d2 * f2 * c2 return sumval def _addclosed(self): a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2 = self.a2, self.b2, self.c2, self.d2, self.e2, self.f2 sumval = a2 * b2 * d2 sumval += d2 * e2 * f2 sumval += b2 * c2 * e2 sumval += a2 * c2 * f2 return sumval def _addopposite(self): a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2 = self.a2, self.b2, self.c2, self.d2, self.e2, self.f2 sumval = a2 * e2 * (a2 + e2) sumval += b2 * f2 * (b2 + f2) sumval += c2 * d2 * (c2 + d2) return sumval φ = sqrt(5)/2 + 0.5 D = 1.0 R = D/2 def объем(net): return Тетраэдр(net.oa, net.ob, net.oc, net.ab, net.bc, net.ca ).ivm_объем() # Fig. 913.01 A Quanta Module # http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f1301.html a = D EF = a * sqrt(6) / 12 EC = a * sqrt(6) / 4 ED = a * sqrt(2) / 4 FC = a * sqrt(3) / 3 CD = a/2 DF = a * sqrt(3) / 6 Amod = ПлейнНэт(EF, EC, ED, FC, CD, DF) Avol = объем(Amod) print("Amod volume = :", Avol) # Fig. 916.01 B Quanta Module # http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f1601.html a = D EA = a * sqrt(2) / 2 EC = a/2 EB = a * sqrt(6) / 12 AC = a/2 CB = a * sqrt(2) / 4 BA = a * sqrt(6) / 4 Bmod = ПлейнНэт(EA, EC, EB, AC, CB, BA) Bvol = объем(Bmod) print("Bmod volume = :", Bvol) # Fig. 986.411A T & E Module # http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f86411a.html h = R OC = h OA = h * sqrt((5 - sqrt(5))/2) OB = h * sqrt((9 - 3 * sqrt(5))/2 ) CA = (h/2) * (sqrt(5) - 1) AB = h * sqrt(5 - 2 * sqrt(5)) BC = (h/2) * (3 - sqrt(5)) Emod = ПлейнНэт(OC, OA, OB, CA, AB, BC) Evol = объем(Emod) print("Emod volume = :", Evol) # Fig. 986.411A T & E Module # http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f86411a.html h = R * pow(2/3,1/3) * (φ / sqrt(2)) OC = h OA = h * sqrt((5 - sqrt(5))/2) OB = h * sqrt((9 - 3 * sqrt(5))/2 ) CA = (h/2) * (sqrt(5) - 1) AB = h * sqrt(5 - 2 * sqrt(5)) BC = (h/2) * (3 - sqrt(5)) Tmod = ПлейнНэт(OC, OA, OB, CA, AB, BC) Tvol = объем(Tmod) print("Tmod volume = :", Tvol) # Fig. 988.13A S Quanta Module Edge Lengths # http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f8813a.html a = D FG = (a/2) * sqrt(3) * sqrt(7-3*sqrt(5)) FE = a * sqrt(7 - 3*sqrt(5)) FH = (a/2) * (sqrt(5)-1) GE = (a/2) * sqrt(7 - 3*sqrt(5)) EH = (a/2) * (3 - sqrt(5)) HG = (a/2) * sqrt (7 - 3*sqrt(5)) Smod = ПлейнНэт(FG, FE, FH, GE, EH, HG) Svol = объем(Smod) print("Smod volume = :", Svol) # φ**=5 / 2 print("================") sFactor = Svol / Evol s3 = Svol * pow(φ, -3) s6 = Svol * pow(φ, -6) e3 = Evol * pow(φ, -3) E3 = Evol * pow(φ, 3) print("sFactor (Svol/Evol) = ", sFactor) print("================") BUvol = (20 * sFactor ** 2) LUvol = BUvol/8 # 60 * S + 20 * s3 print("BigUgly: {:10.7f}".format(BUvol)) print("SuperRT: {:10.7f}".format(120 * E3)) # ромбические триаконтаэдра # print("UnknownTet: {:10.7f}".format(20 * sFactor ** 1)) print("VE (edge 2): {:10.7f}".format(20 * sFactor ** 0)) # 420 * Svol + 100 * s3 print("Icosa (edge 2): {:10.7f}".format(20 * sFactor ** -1)) # 420 * Evol + 100 * e3 # print("BizzaroTet: {:10.7f}".format(20 * sFactor ** -2)) # 360 * Svol + 85 * s3 print("SmallGuy: {:10.7f}".format(20 * sFactor ** -3)) # 360 * Evol + 85 * e3 print("RD6: {:10.7f}".format((2*Avol + Bvol) * 4 * 12)) print("RT5+: {:10.7f}".format(120 * Evol)) # ромбические триаконтаэдра print("RT5: {:10.7f}".format(120 * Tvol)) # ромбические триаконтаэдра print("октаэдр (edge 2): {:10.7f}".format((Avol + Bvol) * 6 * 8)) # 6 ABs per face print("LittleUgly + 24 Smods: {:10.7f}".format(LUvol + 24 * Svol)) print("куб: {:10.7f}".format(267* s3 + 63 * s6)) # Тетраэдр + 6 1/8 октаэдр print("LittleUgly: {:10.7f}".format(LUvol)) print("VE faces in LittleUgly: {:10.7f}".format(LUvol * sFactor**-2)) print("Тетраэдр: {:10.7f}".format( 21 * Svol + 5 * s3)) import unittest class Test_Tetrahedron(unittest.TestCase): def test_unit_volume(self): tet = Тетраэдр(D, D, D, D, D, D).ivm_объем() self.assertAlmostEqual(tet, 1.0) def test_unit_volume2(self): tet = Тетраэдр(R, R, R, R, R, R).xyz_объем() self.assertAlmostEqual(tet, 0.1178511) def test_phi_edge_tetra(self): tet = Тетраэдр(D, D, D, D, D, φ ) self.assertAlmostEqual(tet.ivm_объем(), 0.70710678) def test_right_tetra(self): e = hypot(sqrt(3)/2, sqrt(3)/2) # right Тетраэдр tet = Тетраэдр(D, D, D, D, D, e).xyz_объем() self.assertAlmostEqual(tet, 1.0) def test_smod_volume(self): svol = 0.5 * φ**-5 self.assertAlmostEqual(Svol, svol) if __name__ == "__main__": unittest.main()

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What edu-sig page advice to give re 3.x vs 2.x in 2014?
by Kirby Urner May 29, 2014

May 29, 2014

I wonder what other edu-siggers think about our advice on the edu-sig page regarding 2.x versus 3.x Python, i.e. which to learn and invest in more. Obviously there's no one size fits all, but with the passage of time we may want to revise our advice-giving. Per the example email below, me responding to a student, in 2.x if you didn't subclass object explicitly, then your @property attributes would not be inherited, as demonstrated by the example code below. Such discrepancies can lead to frustration especially if following tutorials or documentation and thinking version might not matter that much. Newcomers do not spontaneously assume or intuitively know that 3.x is backward incompatible with 2.x, as if the number change actually conveys that message; it doesn't, we have to let them know, give a heads up. I'm personally quite happy with 3.x and find it a great improvement over 2.x and my bias would be to encourage learning 3.x first and any 2.x version as a dialect later. Enough 3rd party products have made the transition to where I don't think we need to circle 2.x as much in our advice-giving (whereas when this advice was first given, 3.x was still quite new). Kirby Urner O'Reilly School of Technology Email reply to student: ===================== Yes, behavior appears to have changed. If you have the time, I think a worthy exercise, try your 2.7 code but with your class Parent subclassing from (object). Wait, I have a 2.7 interpreter, lets see what I get: Python 2.7.3 (v2.7.3:70274d53c1dd, Apr 9 2012, 20:32:06) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information. >>> from inheritance_test import Parent, Child >>> obj = Child() >>> obj.name = "Kirby" >>> obj.name 'Kirby' >>> obj.name = "Johnathan" >>> obj.name 'Johnathan' This is where I force a recompile of the module, after I make Parent a subclass of object explicitly, object being the "new style class" 2.7 was phasing in, with 3.x using new style classes exclusively. >>> import imp >>> import inheritance_test >>> imp.reload(inheritance_test) <module 'inheritance_test' from 'inheritance_test.py'> >>> from inheritance_test import Parent, Child >>> obj = Child() >>> obj.name = "Johnathan" Traceback (most recent call last): File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in <module> obj.name = "Johnathan" File "inheritance_test.py", line 9, in name raise AttributeError AttributeError I'm glad you raised this issue. Guido van Rossum took a risk in announcing his "PY2K" apocalypse around 2000: a backward incompatible leap that would fix some fundamental errors he felt he'd made with the 2.0 edition. Perl tried to make the leap from 5 to 6 and is still trying. On the other hand, Python 3.x has some pleasing and consistent features that argue well for Guido's risk taking. Kirby ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please keep this line in the subject of all messages in this case: [CASE-9761146] ------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 29 May 2014 at 11:42 AM, Rafael Chavez wrote: > So, I got your response. I tried your example in Python 2.7 and in the > console in Eclipse in Python 3. I get 2 different Results. Has this > behavior change from 2.7 to 3 or am I doing something wrong? > > In Python 2.7: > >>> class Parent: > @property > def name(self): > return self._name > > @name.setter > def name(self, n): > if n != "Kirby": > raise AttributeError > self._name = n > > > >>> class Child(Parent): > pass > > >>> obj = Child() > >>> obj.name = "Kirby" > >>> obj.name > 'Kirby' > >>> obj.name = "Joe" > >>> obj.name > 'Joe' > >>> dir(obj) > ['__doc__', '__module__', 'name'] > >>> obj1 = Child() > >>> obj1 > <__main__.Child instance at 0x02B92F58> > >>> dir(obj1) > ['__doc__', '__module__', 'name'] > >>> obj.name > 'Joe' > >>> obj1.name = "Joe" > >>> obj1.name > 'Joe' > >>> try: > obj.name = "Jonathan" > except: > print("NOT KIRBY") > >>> > >>> obj.name > 'Jonathan' > >>> > > > In Python 3: -- As expected: > class Parent: > @property > def name(self): > return self._name > > @name.setter > def name(self, n): > if n != "Kirby": > raise AttributeError > self._name = n > > class Child(Parent): > pass > > > obj = Child() > obj.name = "Kirby" > obj.name > 'Kirby' > print(obj.name) > Kirby > > try: > obj.name = "Joe" > except: > print("It did not work") > > It did not work > > > Thanks, > > XXX [ student name redacted ]

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New tutorial on OOP for complete beginners
by Andre Roberge May 29, 2014

May 29, 2014

Building on my previous introductory tutorial intended for complete beginners which I think I announced previously on this list , I have written a new tutorial introducing Object-Oriented Programming in Python. Beginners tutorial: http://reeborg.ca/docs/begin_py_en/index.html New OOP tutorial: http://reeborg.ca/docs/oop_py_en/index.html Site where actual programs are written and run: http://reeborg.ca/world.html Main site with links to 3 short videos explaining how to run programs and create new worlds: http://reeborg.ca This is just a first draft; comments (for any tutorials fround on my site) are always more than welcome. Reeborg's World is free to use, does not require any login, and does not track its users. Cheers, André

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Re: [Edu-sig] Edu-sig Digest, Vol 130, Issue 13
by Marianne McKenna May 29, 2014

May 29, 2014

I will be away from the office today May28 th. I will try to respond to emails. Please contact tech support if you need immediate assistance. Thanks

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Re: [Edu-sig] Edu-sig Digest, Vol 130, Issue 12
by Marianne McKenna May 28, 2014

May 28, 2014

I will be away from the office today May28 th. I will try to respond to emails. Please contact tech support if you need immediate assistance. Thanks

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Re: [Edu-sig] Edu-sig Digest, Vol 130, Issue 11
by Marianne McKenna May 27, 2014

May 27, 2014

I will be away from the office today May27th. I will try to respond to emails. Please contact tech support if you need immediate assistance. Thanks

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Re: [Edu-sig] Getting more involved with education and the PSF...
by Jeff Elkner May 25, 2014

May 25, 2014

Which has not been a problem at all. Think of the big involvement from the RIT folks in this year's PES. It's a meritocracy, after all. The volunteers who step forward determine what gets done. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Jessica Nickel <jessanickel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Kirby, > > I agree, and think there definitely needs to be a focus on both college and > community-based education outreach as well. > > > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 4:26 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Sounds good to me, as long as we're clear that "promoting Python in >> education" is in no way limited to K-12. I'm a full time teacher of Python >> to adults and like to think edu-sig is the right venue for my kind of >> chatter as well. So far, I've felt that way. K-12 is important and >> welcome, but not the whole show. >> >> Kirby >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Jeff Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> wrote: >>> >>> What I'm hoping for is broader participation and on-going effort in >>> promoting Python in education. It makes sense to coordinate this >>> effort with the PES, which could serve as a yearly gathering of folks >>> who have been working together throughout the year. This is a good >>> time to do this, following Van Lindberg's announcement of the new, >>> community PSF and the call for more folks to get involved in the >>> community. >>> >>> I think we should do this through the edu-sig for the following reasons: >>> >>> 1. The edu-sig is the currently existing group within the official >>> Python community whose focus is Python in education. >>> 2. The goal of the PES is the same as the goal of the edu-sig - to >>> support and promote Python's use in education. >>> >>> Thoughts? If there is general agreement, I'd like to propose that we >>> ask Chalmer to be the coordinator of the edu-sig for the next year and >>> that he take the lead in organizing the PES as his main task. >>> >>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > As far as coordinating the PyCon Education Summit, I don't think there >>> > is a >>> > strong precedent for any connection between Edu-Sig and running the >>> > summit. >>> > >>> > In general, PyCon people are just that - PyCon organizing spots aren't >>> > tied >>> > officially to any other Python organizations.... they may well be on >>> > the >>> > PSF, the board, etc... but they certainly don't have to be, other than >>> > Ewa, >>> > who is officially board secretary and event coordinator. PyLadies >>> > events >>> > might be an exception, but otherwise I'm not thinking of any. >>> > >>> > Since I initially pitched the first summit to Edu-Sig to less than >>> > lukewarm >>> > support, I'm a little surprised now to hear the summit being proposed >>> > as the >>> > official event of Edu-Sig... not that I'm against it, particularly, but >>> > I do >>> > think committed individuals are often more effective at getting >>> > specific >>> > things done. :-) >>> > >>> > Still if that's what you all want to do, and it can be a catalyst to >>> > re-invigorate Edu-Sig and make it more representative of all kinds of >>> > Python >>> > education, I certainly wouldn't object. >>> > >>> > So my short answer is, "there is no precedent, do what you think best." >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Naomi >>> > >>> > >>> > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jeff Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> OK, I'm all set with the access I need to edit the edu-sig page. I >>> >> plan to spend at least part of my time on May 31st (National Day of >>> >> Civic Hacking) working on the web site. >>> >> >>> >> The bottom of our web page currently says: "Send suggestions for >>> >> changes to the edu-sig list.", which is a good way to handle >>> >> suggestions. >>> >> >>> >> Looking over the SIG page here: >>> >> https://www.python.org/community/sigs/, I >>> >> read: >>> >> >>> >> * Each SIG has a charter, a coordinator, a mailing list, and a >>> >> directory on the Python website. >>> >> * SIG membership is informal, defined by subscription to the SIG's >>> >> mailing >>> >> list. >>> >> * Anyone can join a SIG, and participate in the development >>> >> discussions via the SIG's mailing list. >>> >> >>> >> I don't think we have a edu-sig coordinator at present. Would this be >>> >> something you would be interested in doing, Chalmer? Perhaps Naomi can >>> >> shed some more light on the practice for the last two years since she >>> >> started it, but it seems to me that a revived edu-sig would be the >>> >> logical group to help coordinate the PES. >>> >> >>> >> At some point soon we should add edu-sig on the SIG page as one of the >>> >> currently active SIGs. >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Chalmer Lowe >>> >> <chalmer.lowe(a)gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > Jeff: >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks for spinning up this conversation. Great stuff. >>> >> > >>> >> > My intent is to volunteer to chair the Python Education Summit (PES) >>> >> > next >>> >> > year (based on Naomi's comments regarding stepping down). I don't >>> >> > know >>> >> > what >>> >> > the formal process is to make that official... Naomi... can you shed >>> >> > light >>> >> > on that? >>> >> > >>> >> > As everyone prolly already knows, that is not a task that can be >>> >> > done >>> >> > alone, >>> >> > so there should be plenty of opportunities for others to get their >>> >> > hands >>> >> > dirty. My guess/hope is that Jessica will want to help again this >>> >> > year. >>> >> > >>> >> > I captured a ton of notes and thoughts that I am putting to paper to >>> >> > outline >>> >> > 'the process' for next year's PES. Planned on putting that up on >>> >> > github >>> >> > as >>> >> > soon as I can. (I'm relocating right now, so free time is a luxury I >>> >> > don't >>> >> > have). >>> >> > >>> >> > Along with supporting the PES, I would love to support the types of >>> >> > efforts >>> >> > you are outlining here. >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks again for firing up this conversation. >>> >> > >>> >> > chalmer >>> >> > >>> >> > Chalmer Lowe, MS >>> >> > >>> >> > http://projecteuler.net/profile/threelowelifes.png >>> >> > Level 1 >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Andre Roberge >>> >> > <andre.roberge(a)gmail.com> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Jeff Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Two questions: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> 1. Andre, what do I need to do to begin maintaining that page? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I have not maintained the page for quite a few years now. I >>> >> >> changed >>> >> >> computer twice in the meantime. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Here's what I remember that I had to do. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 1. contact someone on the web support team (pointing out, I think, >>> >> >> to >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> relevant edu-sig discussion) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I know you just asked about how to begin, but just in case you'd >>> >> >> want >>> >> >> to >>> >> >> know, here were the next steps. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 2. generate some ssh key (if I recall correctly) so that I would be >>> >> >> allowed to commit changes >>> >> >> 3. download the whole site (first time) or update it thereafter >>> >> >> 4. (re)build it locally. >>> >> >> 5. edit the relevant rst file >>> >> >> 6. rebuild it (repeat 5 and 6 as needed) >>> >> >> 7. commit changes >>> >> >> 8. repeat steps 3 to 6 as needed (based on suggestions/requests >>> >> >> received) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Now, it could well be that, with the redesign, the process is much >>> >> >> easier >>> >> >> and can be done online using a CMS. >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> 2. Is there anyone in this thread not on edu-sig? My next reply >>> >> >>> will >>> >> >>> go only to the list. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Jessica Nickel >>> >> >>> <jessanickel(a)gmail.com> >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> > Sounds like a plan. I would be happy to talk with Selena about >>> >> >>> > the >>> >> >>> > work >>> >> >>> > to >>> >> >>> > bridge the gap between k-12 educators and Python programmers. I >>> >> >>> > was >>> >> >>> > a >>> >> >>> > k-12 >>> >> >>> > teacher for 10 years (music) and I have been working in schools >>> >> >>> > with >>> >> >>> > my >>> >> >>> > program to teach python coding to kids for the past year and a >>> >> >>> > half, >>> >> >>> > so >>> >> >>> > I do >>> >> >>> > have some experience in that area. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Jeff Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> >>> >> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Great! So it seems we have two short term goals: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> 1. Get someone to agree to maintain the website (I'm >>> >> >>> >> volunteering >>> >> >>> >> if >>> >> >>> >> there isn't anyone else chomping at the bit to do it). >>> >> >>> >> 2. Reach out to Selena Deckelman to help her with her efforts >>> >> >>> >> to >>> >> >>> >> bridge the gap between developers and K-12 teachers (a noble >>> >> >>> >> goal >>> >> >>> >> indeed!). >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Do we agree that edu-sig is the sensible place to hold this >>> >> >>> >> conversation? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> If we do, can we ask Selena to join the list if she is not >>> >> >>> >> already >>> >> >>> >> there? I'll also encourage folks like Lee Harr (cc'd here), >>> >> >>> >> the >>> >> >>> >> creator of the wonderful Pynguin environment >>> >> >>> >> (https://code.google.com/p/pynguin/) to join the list and the >>> >> >>> >> discussion. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Naomi Ceder >>> >> >>> >> <naomi.ceder(a)gmail.com> >>> >> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > One point of info I can add - the person you're thinking of >>> >> >>> >> > running >>> >> >>> >> > for >>> >> >>> >> > PSF >>> >> >>> >> > board is Selena Deckelman, who was on Nate's panel at the edu >>> >> >>> >> > summit. >>> >> >>> >> > She's >>> >> >>> >> > been very into bridging the gap between developers and K-12 >>> >> >>> >> > teachers. >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > Naomi >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Edu-sig mailing list >>> >> >>> Edu-sig(a)python.org >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Edu-sig mailing list >>> >> Edu-sig(a)python.org >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Naomi Ceder >>> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Edu-sig mailing list >>> Edu-sig(a)python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> >> >

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