Mailman 3 September 2001 - Edu-sig

Summary: would you use PythonCard?
by Kevin Altis Sept. 9, 2001

Sept. 9, 2001

I got a number of messages off the list about this topic, so I'll try to summarize the responses, skipping over a lot of the discussion that occurred on the list since you probably already read that. There were no specific messages about any of the samples or how those might be useful in education. I thought there might be some regarding the turtle graphics sample if nothing else. Many people expected PythonCard to provide a complete environment like HyperCard. This issue is described nicely by Paul Fernhout: "I looked at PythonCard but it did not correspond to my expectations based on the name and association with "HyperCard" or SuperCVard (which I have used on the Mac years ago). I expected PythonCard to be a GUI development environment where I dragged and dropped buttons and menu items and set backgrounds for cards set up visually using a property editor (ala HyperCard or SuperCard things) and what I saw was that I had to edit program files to define the GUI (although granted there was a simplified structure for these files)." The short answer is that a complete environment is where we're heading, we just aren't there yet because the project is too new. My bad for bringing up a project at the alpha stage. So, I won't post more to edu-sig until we have a full environment for people to use; today, you can use the samples like the resourceEditor which simplify part of the process, but we can do better. If you're interested in contributing ideas to PythonCard, please subscribe to the PythonCard list to keep up with the latest developments. http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users Thanks for all the responses, ka --- Kevin Altis altis(a)semi-retired.com

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laptopeducation@yahoo.com: Teaching with the Internet
by Guido van Rossum Sept. 9, 2001

Sept. 9, 2001

I can't decide whether this is spam or not. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:59:20 -0400 From: laptopeducation(a)yahoo.com To: webmaster(a)python.org Subject: Teaching with the Internet Hey, There is this web page that gives some advice on Teaching with the Internet. I think this will be a good step for us. Let me know what you think. http://home.att.net/~rdally/Teaching_with_the_Internet_List_of_URLs_4-2-99.… ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Diving into Python
by Timothy Wilson Sept. 7, 2001

Sept. 7, 2001

Hi all, Did everyone see this announcement of the latest chapter of "Diving Into Python"? This is the first I've heard of the project. (http://www.diveintopython.org/) Does anyone know Mark Pilgrim (the author)? Mark, are you on the edu-sig list? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson(a)visi.com | <dtml-var pithy_quote> | http://linux.com

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choice is good
by Kevin Altis Sept. 5, 2001

Sept. 5, 2001

Re the potential flame war over PythonCard and alternative methods of building apps I just want to say that having choices is good. It is not possible to provide a framework or environment that will meet the needs of everyone. I think that it will be just as easy to build GUI apps on the fly in the shell with PythonCard as tk, probably easier, but we aren't quite there yet, nor do I see that as our main focus. I also don't see PythonCard replacing the need for a more general and complete GUI library/framework such as wxPython/wxWindows or Jython with the JFC... Those are more capable for certain types of apps, but much harder to get started with, maintain, etc. but if you need that power, then go for it. It is also too early in the development cycle to completely evaluate PythonCard, we are only on the PythonCardPrototype. Even when we're "done" it won't replace everything else out there in Pythonland for building apps and it isn't intended to, it will simply provide another tool that users and Python programmers will have to leverage Python. At a minimum, it will provide a lot of good ideas, most of them demonstrated in software ten or twenty years ago (or longer), but apparently forgotten by many programmers. For example, separating presention (our .rsrc.py files) from the main source code to simplify doing layouts for different platforms and languages and even allowing a designer to handle layout and a programmer to handle coding. That being said, the "competition" between different solutions for Python acts as an incentive to make PythonCard better. The opinions about what works "best" has to just be written off as opinion and each user has to decide for themselves, hopefully based on trying competing solutions. We'll be trying to present a better face than our competition through samples, documenation, web site, and "marketing" of sorts because we want people to at least try what we think is a great solution. Ultimately, though, PythonCard will just be another solution to choose from. ka --- Kevin Altis altis(a)semi-retired.com

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would you use PythonCard?
by Kevin Altis Sept. 3, 2001

Sept. 3, 2001

Hi, most of you have probably seen PythonCard http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/ posts to the edu-sig list or comp.lang.python. I would like to get a feel for how many users on the edu-sig list are even remotely interested in PythonCard? I realize that it is too late to incorporate it into lesson plans for this fall and wouldn't recommend that anyway given that it is in a prototype stage, but I'm hoping that it will be useful in education, so I want to get your feedback. I think that the runtime is a very good environment for learning Python as well as doing GUI programming. The simplicity of using the GUI components should be especially suited for enhancing the learning of Python concepts without forcing the use of command-line input and output. Just as importantly, I would like to know particular reasons for a lack of interest. This will help to focus how the prototype evolves and who the target audience is. If you're in the camp of "What the heck is PythonCard and why the heck should I care?" then I refer you to the home page above first and can then answer any specific questions you may have. The more criticism the better. You can reply to this thread or email me directly and I'll summarize for the list. Thanks for your time, ka --- Kevin Altis altis(a)semi-retired.com ps. If you *are* interested in PythonCard, you should join the mailing list to contribute feedback... http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

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