Mailman 3 August 2003 - Edu-sig

leglet for ziggy
by Jason Cunliffe 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Here's a nice one.. An interactive Java applet designed to optimize the leg linkage for a robot named Ziggy http://www.gotrobots.com/ziggy/linkage/ Experiments by dragging all the points around :-) http://www.gotrobots.com/ziggy/main.shtml http://www.gotrobots.com/ziggy/leg_design.shtml

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EVBU -- An Open Source 68HC11 Simulator
by Jason Cunliffe 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

EVBU is written in pure Python and uses the wxPython graphical framework. http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~steriana/Python/evbudoc.html Introduction The Motorola 68HC11 is a popular microcontroller and several evaluation boards are available (including Motorola's original board, known as the EVBU) for exploring the capabilities of this microcontroller. This software is a 68HC11 simulator that emulates many aspects of an EVBU with a 68HC11 running the BUFFALO monitor program. The user interface to EVBU is similar (but not identical) to what a user would experience using a terminal program connected to the EVBU hardware. EVBU is free software licensed under the terms of the GPL. In addition to a command-line emulation of BUFFALO, the EVBU software provides a logic-analyzer-like interface to the 68HC11 port pins. This allows you to view output waveforms and to construct and view input stimulus waveforms. The main goal of the EVBU software is to aid in the understanding of the 68HC11 and of various concepts in digital systems. It is not the goal of EVBU to be a fast, complete, all-singing-all-dancing simulator (investigate THRSim11 or UMPS if you are looking for one). Only some of the 68HC11 peripherals are implemented. Thus, EVBU is intended mostly as a teaching tool, although it is a fairly capable simulator. The execution speed is on the order of 500X real time for an 8 MHz 68HC11. That is, it takes about 500 seconds to simulate 1 second of real time (on a 1 GHz Pentium processor). Improving the speed of the simulator is not a major goal of the project. EVBU is written in pure Python and uses the wxPython graphical framework. http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~steriana/Python/evbudoc.html

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example brain for collecting images from a robot as it moves around
by Jason Cunliffe 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pyro/?page=PyroModuleVision from pyro.brain import Brain import time def saveListToFile(ls, file): for i in range(len(ls)): file.write(str(ls[i]) + " ") file.write("\n") def scaleList(ls, maxval): for i in range(len(ls)): ls[i] = ls[i] / (1.0 * maxval) return ls class SampleImages(Brain): def setup(self): self.getRobot().startService("V4LCamera") self.camera = self.getRobot().getService("V4LCamera") print "done initializing camera" #to save image data in a nnet ready format, uncomment the following line #self.cameradat = open("camera.dat", "w") self.count = 0 def step(self): if self.count < 10: self.camera.update() image = self.camera.getShrunkenImage(xscale = 0.5, mode = 'sample') #to save image data in a nnet ready format, uncomment the following line #saveListToFile(scaleList(image.data, 255), self.cameradat) #to save image data as ppm files, uncomment the following line image.saveToFile("image%d.ppm" % self.count) self.wander(0.9) time.sleep(0.3) self.getRobot().stop() self.count += 1 print "step", self.count else: print "done collecting samples" self.getRobot().stop() #to save image data in a nnet ready format, uncomment the following line #self.cameradat.close() self.pleaseStop() def wander(self, minSide): robot = self.getRobot() front = robot.get('range', 'value', 'front', 'min')[1] left = robot.get('range', 'value', 'front-left', 'min')[1] right = robot.get('range', 'value', 'front-right', 'min')[1] if front < minSide: robot.move(0,-0.3) elif left < minSide: robot.move(0,-0.3) elif right < minSide: robot.move(0,0.3) else: robot.move(0.2, 0) def INIT(engine): return SampleImages('SampleImages', engine)

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Pyro, Python Robotics Pyro
by Jason Cunliffe 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Pyro is a library, environment, graphical user interface, and low-level drivers to explore AI and robotics using the Python language. Features OpenGL visualization of robot and sensors Open source - available for study, or changing Designed for students, and researchers Works on many real robotics platforms and simulators Extensive algorithms includes behavior-based, vision (motion tracking, blobs, etc.), learning (back-propagation, self-organizing maps, etc.), evolutionary, and more. http://emergent.brynmawr.edu/pyro/?page=Pyro

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Beyond LEGOs
by Jason Cunliffe 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Here's a 2 year robotics project using Python [Project Duration: January 1, 2003 to December 31, 2005] http://www.cs.brynmawr.edu/BeyondLegos/ Seems there are/were openings in the grant for pilot schools.. How to Become a Pilot School http://www.cs.brynmawr.edu/BeyondLegos/PilotProgram/HowTo.html - Jason

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re: Close, but no cigar
by Arthur 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

And I am afraid, there is one more *fact* I would like on the record. I went to the considerable trouble of creating, for Bruces benefit,a proto-type implementation, fully configured, with Inno Installer, of a stand-alone VPython in a runtime Python environment. In other words, an environment that Bruce could feel free to customize to his heart's content for whatever perceived needs of himself, his students, other people's students, etc. and etc. - without disturbing, in viral ways, anybody else's existing Python installation. And no instructions necessary. Didn't talk about it. Did it. Took time. Without grant funding. And while there was definite interest in this approach, based on clear comments from other professors on the list, Bruce never pursued it. To the extent that I have no reason to believe he even bothered to download what I had made available, to see what it did, and how it did it. Not to mention why. For the record. Art

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re: Close, but no cigar
by Arthur 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

>abundant experience with users new to Python shows that the >fewer the instructions the better The desperate need to avoid instruction, to students, in a University setting disturbs me bit. I can only hope he is no more than moderately successful at it. Art

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re: Close, but no cigar
by Arthur 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

>This is not the first time this scientist has insulted science with his >"data" - data which, under his version of the scientific method ,will >always unambigously support and confirm his petty prejudices and half->baked conclusions. And I am still pulling my punches. Please add "personal agendas". Thank you. Art

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re: Close, but no cigar
by Arthur 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Bruce- >I've tried in various forums to explain what data these decisions are >based on, and I won't repeat all of that here. Me- >>I simply can't stomach to reply directly to Bruce's comments about the >>data" supporting his view - in light, among other things, of the div >>perator argument background, where his "data" seemed to be so >> >>influential. Sorry folks. Fuses blown. This is not the first time this scientist has insulted science with his "data" - data which, under his version of the scientific method ,will always unambigously support and confirm his petty prejudices and half-baked conclusions. I label my half-baked conclusions and petty prejudices "Zen". Gives me some wiggle room anyway. And leaves me in a position to say that perhaps I respect the scientific method and its significance more then do some scientists. And with the zeal of a convert. If anybody cares at all as to what all my screaming has been about for these years now. Art

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Re: [Visualpython-users] Close, but no cigar
by Arthur 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

>Bruce simply does not see any significance to the interactive prompt. >Incredibly. He states so repeatedly. All the more incredible, to me, because - particularly for teaching - VPython's ability to function directly at the interactive prompt is one of its more incredible features. I worked hard to reconfigure PyGeo, in its latest version. to be able to take full advantage of this capacity of VPython's. Simply took me a while to figure out how to do so. So the argument is not purely theoretical, and not purely as an observer. *I* want IDLE to start up interactively, and have every intention of overriding Bruce's override in a PyGeo distro. I simply can't stomach to reply directly to Bruce's comments about the "data" supporting his view - in light, among other things, of the div operator argument background, where his "data" seemed to be so influential. He knows full well he can support that "data" with two sentences of instructions to his students, to get them where we feels they need to be when opening IDLE. Rather than effecting all kinds of peoples who's needs are quite different (stating generously that Bruce correctly perceives the needs, and the importance of those needs, of his users). This is silly stuff, really. And always has been. But its hard to laugh. Art

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Close, but no cigar
by Arthur 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Bruce Sherwood has released a new VPython for Python23. IDLE has always been the editor which is "supported" by Bruce for the purposes of his physics curriculum, so the integration of IDLEdev into IDLE for Python23 has provided an opportunity for the simplication of the VPython distribution on Windows. But despite the fact he is and has been content to have the vpython docs and demos reside under ...site-packages\visual, he still cannot use disutils for his Windows distribution. He takes advantage of the new ability to add the VPython help files as an *additional* resource to the IDLE help menu. Which is exactly why he is content to have the docs "buried" in ..\site-packages\visual\docs. The problem is that the config-main.def file which needs to be touched to accomplish this is in ../idlelib, not off the site-packages tree. So out of reach of bdist_wininst. The other customization he chooses to make is a desktop icon which has ..\sitepackages\vpython\demos as its "start-in" directory. Which is why he is content to have the vpython demos under ''\site-packages\visual\demos directory. But he can only do this with disutils if win32all is known to be installed. An assumption that Bruce cannot reasonably make. My criticism of the distribution (besides my previously stated discomfort about how Numeric is handled) is the fact that the icon placed on the desk-top is simply called "IDLE for Python" - no indication of it having been placed there by VPython, custom to its needs (as to the "start-in" directory. For a PyGeo distro (which relies on VPython), for example, it would be perfectly reasonable to expect that I would add reference to the PyGeo help files in the IDLE config files, rather than replace the reference to the VPython help files. It is not reasonable to expect me to live with a desktop icon to the one and only IDLE that points to the VPython demos as its start-in file. And expect the PyGeo user to fend for himself. But nor am I comfortable, or have any particular reason, to want to overwrite a VPython shortcut to IDLE. The VPython placed shortcut should be clearly named so that it is understood it is placed on the desktop by VPython, and the approproate icon to hit when firing up to work on VPython. And I can do the same as to PyGeo. I can't believe there is any technical issue involved, especially as it currently assumed we are both working with full-blown Windows installers. Bruce, Be reasonable on this. Please. Art

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fwd: [Distutils] custom install directory with bdist_wininst
by Arthur 08 Aug '03

08 Aug '03

PythonLabs, via Jeremy, seems to be on the case as to bdist_wininst. His wish list is actually much more modest than mine. He seems to only hope to be able to do a full distro off of the python tree. I (as the distributor) want to be able to identify what are libaries, and go to site-packages, and what are front-facing files (demos and docs, e.g.) and go to a configurable directory not necessarily on the python tree. *And* icons and start menu possibilites. The responses on the disutils list to Jeremy's feature inquiry were not very encouraging. He was basically advised to go with a full featured Windows installer. Which at least makes me feel better about coming to the same conclusion as to a PyGeo distribution - that I should not feel shamed in resorting to a third party installer as the only reasonable solution, at this stage of the game, at least. There in fact being free Windows installers available, with modest learning curves. To some extent, the temptation of bdist_wininst is the biggest problem of bdist_wininst - is a possible unhappy conclusion. Art Jeremy Hylton jeremy at zope.com Mon Jun 30 20:12:12 EDT 2003 I'd like to give the user control over where the files get installed. It looks like distutils installs into site-packages by default, and there's no way to override it. The UI shows the destination directory in a box that looks like it should be editable, but it isn't. If you run setup.py install, you can pass a --home that affects where files are installed. I'm looking for something similar on Windows. Jeremy

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re: computer courses to math majors
by Arthur 07 Aug '03

07 Aug '03

ali writes - >comp 103 -- computer programming II >(what do you think about this??? -- i'm thinking of including vpython >and/or pygeo here...) >can you comment on these (esp. comp 102 and 103)?? I think the pygeo idea is a decent one ;) Truly, if there is anything I can do to help make that a reality, please let me know. The documentation for pygeo is a problem. Mostly because I don't really understand who I should be writing it for, and my efforts keeping getting sidetracked on that account. In the context of a real world situation - if you help me understand what assumptions I can make about your students background - it might get me off the dime, a bit. comp 103: so I don't need to worry about presenting basic Python concpets as part of my docs. That kind of thing. Not a curriculum, certainly. But documentation that might at least "speak to" your students , a bit. Math students studying programming is my ideal audience, I would think. I would hope they would interested in taking apart the code a bit, and even maybe putting it back together - better. Art

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computer courses to math majors...
by rmangaliag＠slu.edu.ph 07 Aug '03

07 Aug '03

i've been tasked by my department head (computer application department) to identify computer subjects that can be given to math majors (bachelor's degree) in our small university... we are currently in a transition phase (because of the change in the curriculum... these are my thoughts... comp 101 -- basic computer concepts/information technology (this is an intro to computers with wordprocessing and basic spreadsheet) comp 102 -- computer programming I (finally, i was able to convince my department head to "embrace" python) comp 103 -- computer programming II (what do you think about this??? -- i'm thinking of including vpython and/or pygeo here...) can you comment on these (esp. comp 102 and 103)?? and can you please give me some resources/links where i can pattern the syllabus of the said subjects??? thanks... ali ps... we can ask for an inclusion of another math/computer subject (possibly comp 104)... what other math/python topics can i include??? ------------------------------------------------- Email Service Provided by SLU-Net Saint Louis University ( http://www.slu.edu.ph ) -------------------------------------------------

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Re: PyOpenGL etc. in Python 2.3 (Windows)
by Arthur 07 Aug '03

07 Aug '03

> >Maybe others like small footprint too and don't include optional >>packages into the core distro ;) > > Markus >Yeah, but.... Or perhaps something small can be taken from win32all, or written as a platform specific extension to disutils. Taking up the cause of Windows users, and those trying to reach Windows users, is not a very sexy position to be in in an Open Source community. And I couldn't have much to say until I understood disutils well enough. Now, I think I can say without the fear that I am missing something fundamental (who knows), that disutils - having come along way quickly - still does not address some fundamental issues. And I am not sure how it can ever address both Windows and non-Windows standards and expectations without some added functionality that specifically addresses some of the quirks of the Windows platform and its user base. And it happens that with win32all installed, I think all fundamentals can be met. What more minimal code might be sufficient .... not my job, though I would try to help if I could. Art

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Summer Fruits - Proce55ing & PyBot
by Jason Cunliffe 07 Aug '03

07 Aug '03

Some summer fruits you may enjoy... 1. A cool MIT alternative to Flash using Java. An obvious candidate for Jython. "Processing" by Ben Fry and Casey Reas http://www.proce55ing.net/ "Processing is a context for exploring the emerging conceptual space enabled by electronic media. It is an environment for learning the fundamentals of computer programming within the context of the electronic arts and it is an electronic sketchbook for developing ideas. The software is currently in a prerelease stage, but bug fixes are being made as we head toward a more complete "1.0" release. Processing will be free to download and available for Mac, PC, and Linux." 2. PyBot ?? I see there is an amazing new birth in hobbyist electronics based on programmable STAMP devices. Great to see an alternative to LEGO Mindstorms that encourages people to whip out breadboards and soldering irons. The cool thing is there is new lots of good information and tools [hard and soft] to support this kind of activity. Mainstream books stores carry affordable $25 range books. [The local mediocre Barnes and Noble in Brooklyn is crude litmus test]. The first were just battlebots. But now much more varied fare - more emersed in real world interfacing. The coolest one I saw today is "Junkbots". So next time you see a dead calculator, phone, TV/VCR appliance give it a budding junkbot builder. Kids please DO try this at home! STAMP seems to be based on BASIC, but here are others, notably Parallax who offer BASIC/Java/Assembly interface. So naturally I am wondering with PyGame, Jython etc, how near/far is Python today to BotDom ?? KITS & ROBOTICS http://www.parallax.com/ http://www.kitsusa.us/store/index.cfm?frm=prod-view&scid=46 BOOKS The Robot Builders Bonanza [2000] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071362967/qid=1060218185/sr=1 -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2698402-8575801?v=glance&s=books JunkBots, Bugbots, and Bots on Wheels: Building Simple Robots With BEAM Technology [2002] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072226013/103-2698402-8575801 ?v=glance#product-details Programming and Customizing the Basic Stamp [2001] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071371923/103-2698402-8575801 ?vi=glance OTHER BOOKS.. Hidden Order: How Adaptation Builds Complexity [1995] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201442302/qid=1060218293/sr=2-2/ref= sr_2_2/103-2698402-8575801#product-details Where Mathematics Comes From: How the Embodied Mind Brings Mathematics into Being [2001] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465037712/qid=1060218228/sr=1 -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2698402-8575801?v=glance&s=books - Jason

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Re: PyOpenGL etc. in Python 2.3 (Windows)
by Arthur 06 Aug '03

06 Aug '03

I wrote - >...little less then trivial (for me) Well, most things are less then trivial, for me. Someone else might have found it *more* than trivial ;). Art

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re: minimal pyopengl
by Arthur 06 Aug '03

06 Aug '03

BTW, Numeric comes into play in the PyOpenGL build, as an option. The aforementioned minimal PyOpenGL binary distro was built against my tree which included Numeric. I don't know whether this is a runtime or build time option. So Numeric might be required to run the binary distro for Windows that I built. Or it may not be. At any rate: As previously posted here, a binary distro of Numeric, for Windows and Python23 is also available at http://home.ix.netcom.com/~ajs/download/ Art

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Speed
by DanSV＠aol.com 06 Aug '03

06 Aug '03

I am trying to pipe input/output(out&error) from a subprogram to a textbox. I am using the wxWindows for the piping(wxProcess), and onIdle in wxFrame for monitoring the process. I then add text to the wxStyledTextControl I am using for the prompt. This fails to catch all of the output of the program. If there is a lot of output, or it is sent too quickly, it will be missed. This sync problem becomes even worse if I attempt to use threads instead of the onIdle method. What should I do? Try a different piping method? Some alternative to onIdle? Drop python and move to c++?(Shudder) Thanks, Daniel

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More stuff for pre-complied for Windows folks
by Arthur 05 Aug '03

05 Aug '03

Doing my new disuils trick, the recent mission to make some very Python interesting 3d/educational modules available for Python23 to Windows users without the avaialability of a build environment, or an inclination to take the time. Once built for my own purposes, the marginal effort of making it available to others being neglible. Both the following modules are by: Matthias Baas (baas(a)ira.uka.de) Their capabilities, when used with pygame and pyopengl are shown particularly well in the tutorial code at http://i31www.ira.uka.de/~baas/pyode/tut3.html Self-installing Windows executables are avaiable at: http://home.ix.netcom.com/~ajs/download/ py-ODE....exe is the Python Open Dynamics Engine Wrapper cgkit-1...exe is the Python Computer Graphics Kit Python Open Dynamics Engine Wrapper http://i31www.ira.uka.de/~baas/pyode/ """ The Open Dynamics Engine (ODE) is a free software library for the simulation of Rigid Body Dynamics. You'll find the library at http://opende.sourceforge.net. pyODE is a Python wrapper module that enables you to use ODE from within Python programs. """ AND The Python Computer Graphics Kit http://cgkit.sourceforge.net/ The Python Computer Graphics Kit is a collection of Python modules that contain the basic types and functions to be able to create 3D computer graphics images. The kit mainly focuses on Pixar's RenderMan interface, but some modules can also be used for OpenGL programs or non-RenderMan compliant renderers like POV-Ray, for example. """

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minimal pyopengl
by Arthur 04 Aug '03

04 Aug '03

having wanted to get a bit into pygame having converted to Python23 having some background with and continuing interest in PyOpenGL knowing that pygame supported PyOpenGL there not being a Python23 PyOpenGL distribution as of yet there being a problem building PyOpenGL with Python23, the process bombing out when dealing with togl, the OpenGL context for tkinter which has been a rather temperamental component of PyOpenGL from its beginnings. Needing to prune togl out of the build. And having kept pruning, to get to the more fundamental components of what has become a large, rather complex distribution. I end up with a Minimal PyOpenGL distribution. It has been tested only under Windows, where it succesfully runs the wxPython PyOpenGL demo, the pygame PyOpenGL demo, and the nehe tutorial code available for pygame. The self-installing Windows executable is 175k, versus approx 2.5m for the full Python22 distro. There is also a slightly larger source distro, which should work under Linux - but having done it yet, and probably won't get around to testing it for a few weeks. What there is is avaiable at http://home.ix.netcom.com/~ajs/download/ For anyone who might find it useful. ARt

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Do you teach GNU?
by Jason Cunliffe 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

Hi. I've been following the sordid tale of SCOvs.IBM. I found two excellent sites... GROKLAW, a weblog cover legal matters "Putting some meat on legal news' bones." http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/ and a superb wiki tracking the SCO scandal http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SCOvsIBM I am beginning to think the SCO debacle it will emerge as the best thing which ever happened to OpenSource and GNU, because by the end of the affair SCO will lose infamously. But also because corporate business, mainstream media, and the courts will all finally understand the legal ethical and programming issues. It's a little like how America learns Geography every time it goes to war [ouch did I say that?]. Anyway, I am very curious to learn if those of you teaching/using Python in schools also take time to discuss GNU and related topics with your students? Stories comments reaction most welcome.. >From a cultural perspective GPL may be one of the most important pieces of programming ever done. Certainly it is Stallman's great hack, one for the history and law books. GPL: The GNU General Public License www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#GPL "In the GNU project, our aim is to give all users the freedom to redistribute and change GNU software. If middlemen could strip off the freedom, we might have many users, but those users would not have freedom. So instead of putting GNU software in the public domain, we ``copyleft'' it. Copyleft says that anyone who redistributes the software, with or without changes, must pass along the freedom to further copy and change it. Copyleft guarantees that every user has freedom." GPL is not all, but it is the original mountain from which the other collaborative licenses flow and define themselves. thanks Jason ______________________________________________ Jason Cunliffe [NOMADICS: Director art+design] Tel/fax: +1 718 422-1078 jasonic(a)nomadics.org N 43:00.000' W 074:31.875' ALT:1144 ft 84 Henry Street #3C Brooklyn NY 11201 USA http://tranzilla.net/.v

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Re: Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3
by Arthur 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

>I've made a self installing executable for Windows of both Numeric and >Vpython available at http://home.netcom.com/~ajs/download.html BTW, Nice to be able to now run VPython (and PyGeo) scripts using the now standard IDLE. Art

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Re: [Visualpython-users] Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3 (Windows version) ??
by Arthur 01 Aug '03

01 Aug '03

I've made a self installing executable for Windows of both Numeric and Vpython available at http://home.netcom.com/~ajs/download.html You need both. Should work, although I just put it together and haven't tested thoroughly. Art ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Dickenson" <Bob.Dickenson(a)verizon.net> To: <visualpython-users(a)lists.sourceforge.net> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: [Visualpython-users] Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3 (Windows version) ?? > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. > http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 > _______________________________________________ > Visualpython-users mailing list > Visualpython-users(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users

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