Mailman 3 April 2004 - Edu-sig

Question ?
by Jason Cunliffe April 21, 2004

April 21, 2004

What is the opposite of programming?

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A conversation with a Bertrand Russell chatterbot
by Jason Cunliffe April 21, 2004

April 21, 2004

http://www.itworld.com/nl/ebiz_ent/04132004/

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Domain-Driven Design by Eric Evans
by Jason Cunliffe April 20, 2004

April 20, 2004

Fascinating.. Well written and richly illustrated. -- Jason Domain-Driven Design: Tackling Complexity in the Heart of Software by Eric Evans Many people have employed domain-driven design in some form, but it will be made more effective with a systematic approach and a shared vocabulary. This new book provides a broad framework for making design decisions and a technical vocabulary for discussing domain design. It is a synthesis of widely accepted best practices along with the author's own insights and experiences. Projects facing complex domains can use this framework to approach domain-driven design systematically. http://domaindrivendesign.org/book/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321125215/102-6451551-932735…

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Dijkstra on teaching
by Arthur April 20, 2004

April 20, 2004

Some Dijkstra quotations on the subject of teaching are found at: http://www.digidome.nl/quotations.htm I of course interpret them to find support for my own prejudices. On technology in the classroom: "One of my foreign colleagues gives classes on the esthetics of programming. I advised him to throw away the overhead projector and return to the blackboard. It made him find again the joy of teaching". Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] the state of the link
by ajsiegel＠optonline.net April 19, 2004

April 19, 2004

>Did you get the parcel ? Yes, but the problem is the you extensively quote Edsger W. Dijkstra. We ignore such mail, because: 1. he seems to maintain the programming *is* mathematics. 2. he is dutch. I am kidding. On 3 counts. Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] Question ?
by Laura Creighton April 19, 2004

April 19, 2004

In a message of Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:08:48 +0200, Gregor Lingl writes: > > >Gregor Lingl schrieb: > >> >> I my opinion (and in my experience) programming >> has much to do with exerting power, i. e. making >> something else (a machine) do exactly what I >> want it to do. > >If this were true, do you think it could be >one reason why there are so few women in the >programmer's community? > >(or: what most women like and prefer to do >apparently must be the opposite of programming?) > >Gregor There are too many other factors involved. But one very significant one is that women believe that programming has to do with _math_ and not with _langauges_. (This is upside-down, and confuses computer science with programming, but there are a lot of misconceptions about this.) It is interesting to consider what may happen when women finally find out that they have been mistaken, as apparantly has happened in the Ukraine, where a friend of mine says that the women programmers slightly outnumber the men 'because it's nice, well-paying work, indoors, with no heavy lifting :-) '. Women test out better at language skills, on average, than men do. And we are all using computer languages designed by men. Not enough women in the field means not enough women computer language designers. In fact, I am the only one I know, and I only design 'tiny languages' for special purposes -- or rather I justify it for the special purposes, I do it because it is _fun_. But don't look at my chromosomes hoping for the next great language. Would I do nothing else for the rest of my life, Guido would _still_ be a better language designer than I am. But I think, if we want to beat Python, getting a whole lot more women in as language designers would not be a bad start. Just an idea, Laura

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Re: [Edu-sig] Question ?
by Laura Creighton April 18, 2004

April 18, 2004

In a message of Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:57:28 +0200, Gregor Lingl writes: > > >Terry Hancock schrieb: > >>On Saturday 17 April 2004 08:32 am, Gregor Lingl wrote: >> >> >>>Jason Cunliffe schrieb: >>> >>> >>>>What is the opposite of programming? >>>> >>>> >>>Did you think of *the one* opposite? >>>I think there are many. >>>The first on I thought of was: making love. >>>Gregor >>> >>> >> >>How is that an opposite? <snip> >Regards >Gregor And here I thought it was because of 'Are you going to hack all night, or are you coming to bed?!' (And I thought it was pretty funny.) Laura :-)

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The war against boys
by Arthur April 18, 2004

April 18, 2004

Unfortunately, it sometimes seems that the only way to gain traction in these kinds of arguments is to claim victim hood. Don't like the trend, and suspect I am contributing to it with this post. But it comes honestly. Another of my sisters, with impeccable activist/progressive/feminist credentials could not help trying to come to terms with the trouble her clearly gifted son was having at school, especially in comparison to the easy adjustment being made by her daughter. She told me I had to read "The War Against Boys". She thought it relevant to me, because of 4 siblings, I - the only male - was the least academically inclined/achieved. And nobody suspected that native intelligence was the issue. Anyway, the issues are self-explanatory, and in my mind, relevant to the current discussion: At: http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/08/12/221558.php is a conservatives thinkers review of the book. Only because that's what came up first on a quick google. But the issue clearly transcends categorization along traditional political lines. The semantics of folks with different political bents will vary more widely than the substance of their thinking on these kinds of matters - it seems to me. Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] Question ?
by Laura Creighton April 18, 2004

April 18, 2004

In a message of Sun, 18 Apr 2004 08:24:16 CDT, Arthur writes: >Laura writes - > >> There are too many other factors involved. But one very significant >> one is that women believe that programming has to do with _math_ >> and not with _langauges_. > >We only (or mostly) have our personal experiences as reference points. Or > at >least I find it hard not to give my personal experience precedence over >things "known" only second hand. > >So I always have a problem with this analysis. > >My elder sister, who asked my parents for little, at the age of 13 or 14 >asked my parents to buy her the "World of Mathematics". It was 3 volumes, >and at the time, only available in hardcover, so it merited a special >request. > >And there didn't seem anything particularly unusual about this request, a >s >other of her friends shared her interest. One, that I re-met fairly >recently, went on to become a mathematician/programmer and currently teac >hes >programming at the college level (and apparently married and divorced - i >n >the meantime - someone considered to be one of the more eminent living >mathematicians). > >My sister went on to a very high-powered career unrelated to math, but on >e >which a generation ago was an almost exclusive domain of men. And she, mo >re >than once, has expressed envy that my less high-powered career has left m >e >in a position to take the time to explore and learn a bit about programmi >ng. >Something she would love to be able to do. > >If anything, I would re-assert a theory that it is not mathematics, but t >he >unimaginative way mathematics tends to be presented in the curriculum, th >at >has women (statistically) going on to other things. > >And it is central to my view, that rather than try to further disconnect >math and programming, we should be moving in the exact opposite direction >. >Making them related experiences, that enliven each other. > >So, Laura, we seem to represent almost opposite viewpoints. Which - so >far;) - we manage to do as friends. Which is nice. > >Art This disagreement can only be fixed by statistically sampling women and girls at random and creating a survey questionaire that analyses their attitudes towards progamming and math. I wonder if anybody is doing such a thing? Laura

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Re: Question ?
by Daniel Ajoy April 17, 2004

April 17, 2004

On 17 Apr 2004 at 12:03, edu-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > Oh no no no. It has to be something uninteresting, uncreative and > unproductive, a spectator sport, like watching football on TV. Modern education? http://www.terc.edu/investigations/relevant/html/computerssupport.html "It goes against the grain of modern education to teach students to program. What fun is there to making plans, acquiring discipline, organizing thoughts, devoting attention to detail, and learning to be self critical." - A. Perlis

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