Mailman 3 April 2004 - Edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] a modest proposal.
by Laura Creighton 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

In a message of Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:21:55 +0200, Laura Creighton writes: > >happy easter and passover. > >any of you lot done the meyers-briggs perslonality test? > >I am INTP, but also very, very, werd because I am at the 50% >level at Introversion vs extroversion, also at the 'precieving >vs judging' so if you score me as ENTJ, you ok. and most weirdly, >i am scoringf off the scale as N not sensing dear god i am embarassed. have your machine crash in the middle of a thing, and its sent. this seems so boasting to me, which is why it was a rough outside. but half a loaf is worse than none .... The cool thing about me meyers-brigg wise, though is that i am consistently in the 95% of the N, intuitive, not sensing. I am the intuitive person's intuitive person. It's difficult to score as scarily high as i do -- it basically means you are so lousy at sensing that you hard can survive beibng alive. Makes for happy mathematicians, though. :_) and uinlike most people who take personality tests, i basically desribe me as a happy person satisfied with being me. In other words, I am weird and i like it. But, yoy see, i know arthur, where this started. And I respect him, forever, for being good at what i can barely funtion at all. I suspect that arthur will max out on the 'sensing' end of the meyers briggs test, though i could be wrong. It is easy to be a better senser than me, just that i think that arthur is superlative at it. what is really cool is that arthur and i, despite widely differing personaity types and backgrounds, are in common agreement that 'python is beautiful' (for all its warts that we want to tweak) this is amazing when you think of it. But Beauty transcends. whuch is why i hoped to not post the last fragment, but if you got that, you get the rest. most embarassingly, but bravely yours, Laura

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a modest proposal.
by Arthur 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

One possibility is to design a programming language that has it all: Case insensitivity. One based indexing. Its numerics look like you are using a calculator. Etc. It would of course have no advantages in terms of actually teaching programming, but it might in fact increase the possibility of actually having programming taught. We call it Placebo. Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] a modest proposal.
by Laura Creighton 10 Apr '04

10 Apr '04

In a message of Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:48:48 EDT, "Jason Cunliffe" writes: >> > aka 'English' >> I'm not following. Are you finding merit in the proposal? >> If so, tactical or substantive. >> If tactical, please revert to secure lines. >> It is self-defeating to discuss tactics this cynical in public. > >It's a beautiful day and I was just feeling silly/playful. Did not >understand your cryptic proposal, but it somehow reminded me of topic I >introduced several orbits ago -- about the scope, interest and value of >using poetry/literature etc as tool to teach and explore programming. > >In this case today, I was flippantly struck that English [or for that mat >ter >most directly human-human languages] fits the spec: > >Case insensitivity. >One based indexing. >Its numerics look like you are using a calculator. >Etc. > >Well perhaps not the Calculator Numerics type font, but that's an option >;-) > >Still feel there may be great value in using/including our regular langua >ge >[English being a personal default] as a way to explore ideas of programmi >ng. >As a way to help develop early base skills for computer programming. >But also, inversely, as a way to inform our notions of "regular" language >[such as English]. >That speaking writing thinking English [substitute your preference here] >is >a form of programming. Certainly there are rules, adaptations, syntax, >references,assumptions, context etc. > >I was brought up on lots of parsing lessons with little diagrams attached >[UK c1960s] Had a love/hate relationship with these. To be honest I have >no >idea how it is done now in schools in various countries. > >I wonder if one could induce a deeper awareness about language in general > to >help kids understand at all levels what many of the principles are and gi >ve >them wider skills [by immediate example] for approaching languages, >communication. Implicit in that is human-human, human-computer, one-one, >one-many etc. >The assumed mission has been 'computational literacy'. My spin if you lik >e >is then 'literate computing' or 'communications literacy'. > >Focus being on the exchange of meaning and message. From what/whom to >what/whom... >What are the parallels, examples and assumptions we can draw on between o >ur >mother tongues and computer programming. >Lost and Found in translation etc. > >Happy Passover.Easter.Spring to you all >-- Jason > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig(a)python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig happy easter and passover. any of you lot done the meyers-briggs perslonality test? I am INTP, but also very, very, werd because I am at the 50% level at Introversion vs extroversion, also at the 'precieving vs judging' so if you score me as ENTJ, you ok. and most weirdly, i am scoringf off the scale as N not sensing

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OT maybe re: Linux Servers
by Arthur 10 Apr '04

10 Apr '04

This is a link to an Open Magazine article on the recent Yankee Group study purporting to establish that: """ In large enterprises, a significant Linux deployment or shift from Windows to Linux would be three to four times more expensive and take three times as long to deploy as an upgrade [of Windows]. """ http://www.open-mag.com/9483483279.shtml The Yankee Group's study is publicized by Microsoft as "independent". In some sense I am sure it is, and in other senses... So much of this stuff boils down to issues of semantics, study parameters, etc. And the Open Source community is goaded into making the wrong counter-argument. It is not non-sensical that converting operating systems would be significantly more involved and expensive than upgrading an existing operating system. But if we assume that these businesses intend be in business for the next 10 years, say, what is the TCO picture over that kind of timeframe? The study doesn't purport to address that kind of issue. It is a study doing nothing more than reiterating common sense, and therefore a study with a foregone conclusion. And Microsoft uses it out of context as ammunition, implying things from it that are substantially beyond its scope. I frankly don't care much what operating systems run on the servers of the Fortune 500. And frankly think that Windows can be a sensible choice for many businesses. But it is the methodologies and tactics here that frighten me. I am convinced these are the kinds of tactics - which boil down to bad and abused science - that are to be faced in questions in respect to technology and education. Except that I don't see anything on the horizon as powerful as IBM offering a countervailing force. Bleak picture. Art

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re: expert floats
by ajsiegel＠optonline.net 08 Apr '04

08 Apr '04

FWIW, there is one of those fault line arguments being conducted on python-dev. Those arguing that > >>> 3.3 > 3.2999999999999998 > >>> is confusing and frightening to beginners, therefore a design mistake. vs. Those arguing that > >>> 3.3 > 3.2999999999999998 > >>> is confusing and frightening to beginners, necessarily so. And therefore the appropriate design option. I have my opinion. Which is being more than well represented. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-April/044153.html being the latest installment. Art

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turtle module
by Dean Goodmanson 07 Apr '04

07 Apr '04

Is PythonCard's turtle a suitable alternative? http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples3.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2001-October/001802.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

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turtle module + win2K
by Jordan Johnson 06 Apr '04

06 Apr '04

Hi all, I've been experimenting with Python as a language (a possible replacement for Scheme) for the 9th grade class I'm teaching, and was pleased to find a turtle graphics module in it. I'm now frustrated with that, though, since its behavior (at least under Windows) is pretty unpleasant--the window fails to redraw once the turtle stops moving, leaving it looking like the thing is hanging. Is this a Tk problem, or a poorly-written turtle module? More importantly, is there a convenient solution to this, aside from making the IDLE shell/editor windows much smaller to accommodate the turtle window? I'm not averse to patching the module if need be, but I can't afford the time to poke around in the code and library docs. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, jmj : Jordan M Johnson - jorjohns @ cs . indiana . edu : If I were a bug, I would want to be a true Renaissance bug.

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Re: [Edu-sig] turtle module + win2K
by Laura Creighton 06 Apr '04

06 Apr '04

I think that you may find using Guido van Robot more useful. http://gvr.sourceforge.net/ There was a good introductory talk 2 weeks ago at Pycon, but there is no paper yet here http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/ Jeff Elkner, the author, will probably post a URL now I have mentioned it, (and yes Pycon still wants the slides). Good luck, Laura

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Which Programming Language? article
by Dean Goodmanson 06 Apr '04

06 Apr '04

Found this article/roundtable/interview applicable: Which Programming Language? http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/editors/language_0304.html It included a link to this still useful but nolstagic piece by Frank Willison: http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/frank/webdesign_0401.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

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