Mailman 3 July 2006 - Edu-sig

SuperSwiki2 Server Bootable ISO image
by Daniel Ajoy July 18, 2006

July 18, 2006

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:20:07 +0900 From: "Masashi UMEZAWA" Subject: [Squeakland] [ANN] SuperSwiki2 Server Bootable ISO image To: Squeakland(a)squeakland.org Hi, I have created a special USB bootable version of SuperSwiki2 Server. Features: o SuperSwiki2 starts automatically after booting. o Other SuperSwiki2 clients recognize the SuperSwiki2 server automatically. o The uploaded project data is stored in the USB memory automatically. Just booting up from a USB memory, you can start eToys project server. Project data is saved in the same USB memory, so it is very handy to carry with from classrooms to classrooms. More info: http://swikis.ddo.jp/SuperSwiki2/24 Enjoy! P.S. I do not attend SqueakFest. But my friend, Abe-san, will attend the fest and have a sample USB memory of this bootable SuperSwiki2 Server. So, if you have some interest, please ask him.

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Alan Kay - another one of his ideas
by ajsiegel＠optonline.net July 18, 2006

July 18, 2006

>He does more than recycle or rest on his reputation (venturing into >Python Nation was the act of an adventuresome explorer, especially >given some of the hackles around here). As I said, I have no problem with a respectful pose toward Kay as an "adventuresome explorer". But in the end I think we need to converge - if we are to converge - around a respect for science and its methods. There is no discovery without exploration, but there is much earnest exploration without discovery. What I consider to be the "assault on my sensibilities" is Kay claiming an exception for himself, to the rules of the game. Are we to play by no rules whatsoever? Seniority is not science. *That's* politics. Am I to accept that I have nostalgia problem, an IQ problem, bad eye sight? Hard, when what I think that what I have is a good view of the hand in front of my face. And that this is what is causing my "problem". Art

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Fwd: [EuroPython] Video (Alan Kay part 1)
by francois schnell July 18, 2006

July 18, 2006

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Christian Scholz <cs(a)comlounge.net> Date: 18-Jul-2006 09:54 Subject: [EuroPython] Video (Alan Kay part 1) To: europython(a)python.org Hi! The first part of the keynote by Alan Kay is now up at http://mrtopf.tv The other two parts and more stuff from the conference will be up shortly at this place. -- christian -- Christian Scholz COM.lounge Luetticher Strasse 10 52064 Aachen Tel: +49 241 400 730 0 Fax: +49 241 979 00 850 EMail: cs(a)comlounge.net Homepage: http://comlounge.net _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython

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Alan Kay - another one of his ideas
by Gregor Lingl July 16, 2006

July 16, 2006

Hi everyone, let's go on pragmatically ;-) Recently Daniel Ajoy on LogoForum posted a link to a description of one of Alan Kay's projects, called logowiki, by himself: http://www.redhat.com/archives/olpc-software/ <http://www.redhat.com/archives/olpc-software/>2006-April/msg00035.html Worth reading! He not only writes about how this project fits into his "children first" efforts, but also (in some detail) about the difficulties of implementing such a system using DOM and JavaScript). And he manages it easily to mention Smalltalk only once, marginally ;-) Imho in the first place his initiative has to be considered as a political one. (As is the initiative to reimplement Squeak in Python.) The logowiki can be found here: http://www.logowiki.net I wonder if something similar could be done for Python easily? For instance using xturtle, which is built on a rather small graphics interface. I think the project has some similarities with Andre Roberge's Crunchy Frog. A thing like this certainly could be another building block in our efforts to bring Python to the people. Perhaps one of the web frameworks TurtboGears or Django or the Ajax-people have some ressources ready to implement this. So I've simply two questions: (1) Which Frameworks, Libraries, tools are adequate for a Python project similar to logo-wiki? (2) Who is interested in undertaking it or assisting it? Regards, Gregor

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Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments
by ajsiegel＠optonline.net July 16, 2006

July 16, 2006

> What I glean from studying Guido's, Alan's and Bruce Eckel's writings,> is this thing about late binding. You do it all in runtime,> basically. You get to be dynamic, aren't under the thumb of a finicky> compiler that requires you to predeclare, and thence to "nail down"> all your code. Nope, don't have to do it that way, as SmallTalk and> Python both prove.My senbilities only feel under assault when reading the writings of one of these folks. His name is Alan Kay.How can they all be saying the same thing?I *do* acknowledge to Mr. Kay exactly what he asks to have acknowledged - he is in a class of his own..No - he needn't care that he offends me.What I am thoroughly confused about - in all honesty - is that I seem to be the exceptionto the rule, rather the rule.I don't mean this sarcastically, as more nastiness. I honestly don't understand the seriousness with which he is taken.And I have read a lot about science, its history;. and the players that history hasanointed.Art

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The keyhole problem and learning environments
by Paul D. Fernhout July 15, 2006

July 15, 2006

While looking around the web looking at issues related to Squeak and Python and 3D GUI issues(*), I came across this: "The Keyhole Problem". http://www.aristeia.com/TKP/ From there: "This is the web page for my current book project, The Keyhole Problem. The book explains how some kinds of constraints in software systems decrease the quality of those systems in many ways. It proposes practical steps programmers can take to avoid these constraints. I call the constraints I'm interested in keyholes: arbitrary restrictions on your ability to see or express something. The name is motivated by the analogy of looking at a room through a keyhole in the door. I'm especially interested in keyholes that programmers can easily avoid, i.e., on gratuitous keyholes. The book defines a number of such keyhole types, gives a variety of examples of how they manifest themselves, explains why they are harmful, and describes how they can be avoided or mitigated. " While much of the book seems to be more about specific smaller programming issues, metaphorically I think that the general metaphor relates to my concern about promoting web-based development environments for Python beginners. Especially having seen the alternative as advanced by Smalltalk development environments thirty-odd years ago, I am concerned that such efforts may be creating experiences of looking through lots of keyholes instead of feeling increasing mastery of a powerful development environment. Maybe this is also a spin on what Kirby uses other language to describe related to when people try to hide the guts of GNU/Linux. Now, that doesn't mean that it is not worth making web tools, just that this is a concern, to be weighed against the advantages of getting people doing any programming at all or having an easy way to deploy educational Python simulations, and I think it worth reflecting on to see if one can both get the cake of people using Pythonic simulations easily and eat it too by letting them change those simulations in unexpected ways. Consider again my previous mention of "transient" versus "sovereign" http://www.cooper.com/articles/art_your_programs_posture.htm applications. I accept the idea that when you want to know something specific it may be nice to find a canned simulation about it on, say, a Wikipedia page. But, what I want is a way for people. when they wish, to go further, and turn that "transient" experience of interacting with a canned simulation into an ongoing expandable experience using "sovereign" development tools. For a decade that has always been my indirect goal with plans for our garden simulator -- to present something complex and educational, yet open to the user to easily build on, tear down, or just go further with, and that has been part of what has driven my interest in Squeak and now Python. Essentially, after the user looks through the keyhole of the specific simulation running, ideally they can open the door and walk into the simulation with easy-to-use development tools and start making changes. For the web systems, I would have less problems with the concept if it was easy to easily point your large development tool at the web page, download the code, and then keep modifying it (and republish it). I think this also returns to earlier comments on how to design a good graphical context for Python newbies -- one that just lets you do some interesting things easily (a keyhole) versus one that makes such things easy but still gives you power to move beyond that and do general graphics. Thinking about a 3D turtle vs. 2D turtle in that context, then maybe a same idea would be to have a turtle that does 2D by default with a simple API but also supports complete 3D operations in an extended API for people who suddenly have an interest in going further. Part of this of course comes from pedagogical philosophy -- restrict what kids can do at the moment versus point them to interesting things and see what happens. I guess one could have a system that restricts at first and gradually unlocks. Games are often structured this way as you proceed across levels or acquire new abilities. While that is looking at it from a pedagogical point of view, this issue pops up in lots of contexts. For example, emacs has tons of key bindings, and it is easy for a beginner to press one by accident and instead of getting a "beep" they get some completely unexpected behavior which they may not be able to back out of easily. It might be nice if for beginners only some of the key bindings worked, and they could be gradually added as needed in an easy way. Similarly, a criticism leveled in the link below on Squeak is that it is very easy to just break Squeak in various ways from the advanced shooting yourself in the foot by making a base class change that causes an error window to open when opening a window :-) to simple things like tearing off a window's close box in Morphic. PataPata has variations of the same failure modes too, so it isn't specifically bas about Squeak, just a general class of problems that are not always easy to solve. Somehow one want to lock certain features, or hide certain things, but still make them unlockable under certain situations. LearningWorks (based on VisualWorks Smalltalk) also addressed some of these issues hiding frames in the debugger related to internal operations from beginners. Anyway, just pointing out that "The Keyhole Problem" is perhaps another metaphor to use in thinking about how to design software which is both easy to learn and also worth learning and using for itself over the long term. :-) --Paul Fernhout (*)Some random snapshot links along my thought path leading to that: http://pyui.sourceforge.net/ [Just started a 3D PataPata version and am thinking about using this] http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/sqcr.html [5 years out of date, but echoes my own similar frustrations with Squeak; came across as I need twisted or another API if I can get a Tkinter process to inspect the 3D OpenGL GLUT world I just started] http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html [For comparison to Squeak, six year old negatives about Java, but they have been mostly resolved technically (though license issues remain).] http://patricklogan.blogspot.com/2003/12/game-programming-with-python-and-p… [when looking to see comments on PyUI] http://patricklogan.blogspot.com/2003/10/craving-rich-gui.html [Which mentions the Keyhole Problem]

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Python and Robotics in Education on Slashdot (Pyro)
by Paul D. Fernhout July 14, 2006

July 14, 2006

I'm sure he's too modest to toot his own horn, :-) but here is a current slashdot article discussing Doug Blank's Python and Robotics in Education using Pyro and other things: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/13/010254 Congratulations to Doug! ==== The initial text (168 comments so far not included): Robots Coming to Intro Computer Science Classes Posted by samzenpus on Thursday July 13, @07:48AM from the my-dog-ate-my-robot dept. Robotics Education BlueCup writes "Two colleges are hoping to make computer science courses http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleArchive/jul2006/robotscs.php more attractive by including personal robots with the textbooks. Looking to boost enrollment in introductory computer science classes, Microsoft Corp. is working with Bryn Mawr College and Georgia Tech on developing new ways to bring robotics technology into the classroom. Douglas Blank, a computer science professor at Bryn Mawr, said the goal will be to start incorporating the robots in introductory courses at the suburban Philadelphia college next spring. Georgia Tech hopes to start during that term as well. The idea behind the program, Blank said, is to make computer science more hands-on and practical, rather than simply about debugging programs." Update: 07/13 15:52 GMT by T :Professor Blank wrote in with some clarification on one of his statements — read on below. dougblank writes "Note to self: when talking to the press, don't use complicated technical jargon, like 'debugging' :) I think what I actually said was 'rather than debug a program to make it give the right answer, the students must debug the program to make the robot behave the way they want it to.' I think many of you will actually like the hardware, software, and curriculum that we are designing. Check out roboteducation.org/ and pyrorobotics.org. The new version of the software will be based on Pyro, Python Robotics. We think of the hardware as something like an iPod on wheels. The software is also being developed with an open source license. This project is not what many of you guess it might be. http://www.roboteducation.org/ http://pyrorobotics.org/ The CS1 and CS2 that we are developing won't be watered down, but also won't be just the standard 'intro to programming, using robots.' It's a complete rethinking of the intro courses." ==== --Paul Fernhout

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Alan Kay - another one of his ideas
by David Boddie July 13, 2006

July 13, 2006

On Thu Jul 13 16:38:37 CEST 2006, Guido van Rossum wrote: > Well, for a start I'd like to see what Alan Kay used in his keynote. > I'm guessing that's Logowiki. He was just using the Squeak environment provided by the Squeakland plugin, wasn't he? There was probably a mixture of custom content and higher level Squeak-based components. At least, that's what it looked like to me. It wasn't clear to me what was providing the collaborative interaction facilities he showed at one point. Maybe that's some sort of extension to Squeak. David

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edu-sig exclusive: Crunchy Frog 0.4.9 released
by Andre Roberge July 13, 2006

July 13, 2006

Crunchy Frog has a new "permanent" home on sourceforge. Version 0.4.9 has just been uploaded. You can find it at: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=169458 This is really meant as a demonstration in preparation for the 0.5 version and will, hopefully, be used by Michael Tobis at tomorrow's ChiPy meeting ;-). [It would not have been released tonight otherwise.] It has been tested on Linux and Windows ... but not Mac OS. Among the changes from the previous release (0.4): much improved appearance, through css styling options; better graphics support for canvas drawings; sound generation; more complete documentation. Note that the canvas is not supported by Internet Explorer. There has been _many_ "under the hood" changes/improvements mostly made by Johannes Woolard in preparation for this release. A few more changes will be needed prior to the 0.5 release and, until then, it is not really practical to create your own tutorials (due to some relative path issues) unless they are located in the same directory as the main Crunchy tutorial. As always, suggestions/comments are welcome. André

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[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Alan Kay - another one of his ideas]]
by Andreas Raab July 12, 2006

July 12, 2006

FYI - here's the source code. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Alan Kay - another one of his ideas] Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:24:45 -0400 From: Colin Putney <cputney(a)wiresong.ca> To: Alan Kay <alan.kay(a)squeakland.org> CC: Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de>, Avi Bryant <avi(a)beta4.com> References: <44B572A9.9010509(a)gmx.de> <6.1.2.0.2.20060712152350.10c70f90(a)mail.squeakland.org> On Jul 12, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Alan Kay wrote: > Fine with me! > > Let's do it. Done. See http://www.logowiki.net/wiki/About%20LogoWiki Probably the biggest reason we didn't do this before is, well... this is the web. All you need is 'View source'. Colin

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