Mailman 3 September 2006 - Edu-sig

Daniel Sayre is out of the office.
by DSayre＠wiley.com Sept. 23, 2006

Sept. 23, 2006

I will be out of the office starting 09/23/2006 and will not return until 10/09/2006. I will be travelling on business in Hong Kong, Macau and India and will have limited access to email. I will do my best to reply to your message in a timely fashion. Should you need prompt assistance, please contact my assistant, Lindsay Murdock, at lmurdock(a)wiley.com. Best wishes, Dan

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Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one
by Daniel Ajoy Sept. 23, 2006

Sept. 23, 2006

On 23 Sep 2006 at 12:00, edu-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > You CANNOT articulate OO on a TI. You can?t create a class. Most people > don?t care, right now, because they don?t even know what that means, but I > can guarantee you that there?s a bunch of scientists at places like > CalTech who DO care! Mathematics is already object-oriented, and the > curriculum of the future will need to make students conscious of that > fact. OO is not something just for CS majors! Seriously. I don't believe this to be true. 2+3 What I see about from a mathematical point of view is two things, and an operator that acts upon those things. The OO point of view is that 2 is an object and that the plus sign is a method of this object and that 3 is the argument of this method. The OO point of view is *nothing like* the mathematical point of view. In math, operators and numbers are two different things and the former don't "belong" to later. Daniel

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The Tao of Math
by Jason Cunliffe Sept. 23, 2006

Sept. 23, 2006

http://www.gt-cybersource.org/Record.aspx?NavID=2_0&rid=11273

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Daniel Sayre is out of the office.
by DSayre＠wiley.com Sept. 23, 2006

Sept. 23, 2006

I will be out of the office starting 09/23/2006 and will not return until 10/09/2006. I will be travelling on business in Hong Kong, Macau and India and will have limited access to email. I will do my best to reply to your message in a timely fashion. Should you need prompt assistance, please contact my assistant, Lindsay Murdock, at lmurdock(a)wiley.com. Best wishes, Dan

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Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one (Michel Paul)
by Michel Paul Sept. 23, 2006

Sept. 23, 2006

> I don't quite understand where OO fits into math education Fractions can be an example. A fraction is not "really" a decimal. Students treat fractions as though they were unfinished division problems, but a fraction is a two-part data structure, just like complex numbers. In terms of data structures, fractions and complex numbers are similar kinds of things. Students already study how to algebraically represent the behaviors of fractions and complex numbers. With a little tweaking, they could be creating classes. Complex numbers already exist in Python, of course, but I think it would be a very good thing for math students to create their own complex number class. Kirby has great examples of what you can do with a rational number class. There could also be line classes, parabola classes, etc. The typical stuff that we have kids learn in the Algebras could be put into OO terms. A line object could tell you its x an y intercepts, could tell you if it contained a given point, could tell you its point of intersection with another line object, etc. >Let me ... ask if Python has a way to plot a function >that's as easy as on the TI. Without that I think >it's going to be a very tough sale, unfortunately. Yeah, that's the main wall I run into. If there was an EASY way - something as easy as turtle - that would be excellent. Does anyone on the list know of a simple to use Python function plotter? Something you could just hand over to beginners? I know Kirby has done stuff with ray tracing - but I still have to learn about that. The kinds of things you CAN graph with Python are amazing, 3-d and so on, but it requires a bit of effort. Something I saw at the SciPy conference was SAGE - Symbolic Algebra Geometry Explorer. It was really amazing. It's something I'd like to explore more, but using it requires a little knowledge of Unix. You can't just hand it over to a typical student or teacher and have them run with it - requires some tinkering. - Michel -----Original Message----- From: edu-sig-bounces+mpaul=bhusd.k12.ca.us(a)python.org on behalf of Andy Judkis Sent: Sat 09/23/06 04:20 AM To: edu-sig(a)python.org Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one (Michel Paul) My daughter is a senior, taking AB Calc and struggling with it somewhat. I'm becoming alarmed as I realize how little mathematical intuition she has developed. She used to be good at it, but now she really needs the calculator to tell her how numbers and functions behave. Very frustrating to both of us -- she's come to hate math, and I haven't been able to get her to consider that it is worthwhile, builds strong mental muscles, etc. And she's an intellectual kid, well above average in math (if SATs are any guide) and in a pretty good school system. So what are most kids getting? I think all the points you make are very thoughtful and interesting to me, but I doubt many HS math teachers are going to have any sense -at all- of what OO means, let alone why it matters. I'm a tech guy, not a math guy, and I don't quite understand where OO fits into math education, but I believe you when you say it does. A few concrete examples would help me understand, and might help make your case. Let me reveal my ignorance (there's a lot of it!) and ask if Python has a way to plot a function that's as easy as on the TI. Without that I think it's going to be a very tough sale, unfortunately. Finally, let me say that I really appreciate the tone of your message. Your sincerity and humility really comes through. I'm sure you're going to continue to encounter plenty of frustration with the math faculty but I think you will make some headway, and inspire a lot of kids too. Cheers, Andy Judkis Oceanport, NJ _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

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Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one (Michel Paul)
by Andy Judkis Sept. 23, 2006

Sept. 23, 2006

My daughter is a senior, taking AB Calc and struggling with it somewhat. I'm becoming alarmed as I realize how little mathematical intuition she has developed. She used to be good at it, but now she really needs the calculator to tell her how numbers and functions behave. Very frustrating to both of us -- she's come to hate math, and I haven't been able to get her to consider that it is worthwhile, builds strong mental muscles, etc. And she's an intellectual kid, well above average in math (if SATs are any guide) and in a pretty good school system. So what are most kids getting? I think all the points you make are very thoughtful and interesting to me, but I doubt many HS math teachers are going to have any sense -at all- of what OO means, let alone why it matters. I'm a tech guy, not a math guy, and I don't quite understand where OO fits into math education, but I believe you when you say it does. A few concrete examples would help me understand, and might help make your case. Let me reveal my ignorance (there's a lot of it!) and ask if Python has a way to plot a function that's as easy as on the TI. Without that I think it's going to be a very tough sale, unfortunately. Finally, let me say that I really appreciate the tone of your message. Your sincerity and humility really comes through. I'm sure you're going to continue to encounter plenty of frustration with the math faculty but I think you will make some headway, and inspire a lot of kids too. Cheers, Andy Judkis Oceanport, NJ

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O'Reilly Code Search [beta]
by Jason Cunliffe Sept. 22, 2006

Sept. 22, 2006

..search all the code examples in every O'Reilly book http://labs.oreilly.com/code/ Jason

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Fixing a typo (Jerritt Collord)
by kirby urner Sept. 21, 2006

Sept. 21, 2006

I especially don't like when I spell peoples' names wrong. Me two years ago: """ When I taught Adventures in Open Source with Jerritt Collard this summer, we started with TCP/IP, explaining how it sits on top of Ethernet, the difference between TCP and UDP, the concept of ports, the concept of daemons connected to these ports, such as Apache on port 80. """ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2004-November/004108.html That's Jerritt Collord (lord, not lard), and former head of http://linuxfund.org/. Kirby

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Physics of Superheroes 1 - Death of Gwen Stacy
by Jason Cunliffe Sept. 21, 2006

Sept. 21, 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuVpwjYgvgg ------ Jason

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Playing games
by Arthur Sept. 21, 2006

Sept. 21, 2006

From an article referenced (critically) in todays planet.python.org """ Do the universities provide for society the intellectual leadership it needs or only the training it asks for? Traditional academic rhetoric is perfectly willing to give to these questions the reassuring answers, but I don't believe them. By way of illustration of my doubts, in a recent article on "Who Rules Canada?", David H. Flaherty bluntly states "Moreover, the business elite dismisses traditional academics and intellectuals as largely irrelevant and powerless." So, if I look into my foggy crystal ball at the future of computing science education, I overwhelmingly see the depressing picture of "Business as usual". The universities will continue to lack the courage to teach hard science, they will continue to misguide the students, and each next stage of infantilization of the curriculum will be hailed as educational progress. I now have had my foggy crystal ball for quite a long time. Its predictions are invariably gloomy and usually correct, but I am quite used to that and they won't keep me from giving you a few suggestions, even if it is merely an exercise in futility whose only effect is to make you feel guilty. """ Austin, 2 December 1988 prof. dr. Edsger W. Dijkstra Department of Computer Sciences The University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1188 USA Then from: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2005/sep05/09-12CSGames.mspx *""" Support Includes Lobbying, Sponsorships and Enhanced Development Tools * Microsoft’s and MSR’s efforts to promote new instructional methods and rebuild enrollment in computer science programs go far beyond the RFP awards. In addition to funding, proponents of game-related instruction say they need help changing perceptions about computer games, particularly among veteran computer science faculty who never played computer games when they were growing up. Microsoft and MSR have sought to take a leadership role in these efforts by promoting potential applications for serious games and lobbying government, academia and business about the benefits of game-related instruction in computer science, Nordlinger says. """ As usual in these discussions, the Microsoft stance relies - at it s essence - on maintaining ambiguity about whether we are talking about playing games, or the demanding (I can't do it, for example) notion of writing them. And is in this respect is -at its essence - dishonest. They are indeed playing games. And mostly winning. Python??? The Scheme community seem to me to take something of a stance on these issues. Perhaps that stance is a __built-in__ to the language structure. Python is perhaps more flexible, perhaps multi-paradigm extends to these kinds of issues as well. The best I seem to be able to hope for as a member of the Python community is that it not become identified with a particular paradigm. To me we are due for a different kind of PyCon keynote speaker on the subject of technology and education, in the interest of balance. Perhaps a leading Schemer. Art

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