Mailman 3 August 2007 - Edu-sig

Python for Halloween
by kirby urner Oct. 21, 2007

Oct. 21, 2007

Something about using 'ghost' in place of 'self' in a Shell class (allusion to anime as well). Maybe I did something like this last year (having deja vu again). But I'm realizing edu-sig is no longer a preferred venue for my curriculum writing. I'd rather huddle with MIT, Bruce Sherwood, Alan Kay and play *against* Arthur's team. Arthur, you make too many enemies too quickly and too easily. Even more, I'm into my Portland Knowledge Lab (PKL) business (gotta pay that rent today) and want to make lots of Python and Synergetics teaching cartoons for HDTV (my Saturday Morning meme), with lots of brand name sponsors. But here is not the place to brainstorm in safety. Too many prying eyes and self-appointed kibbitzers. So I'm actually resigning this time. Don't expect me back any time soon. Probably won't be tracking either, at least not with any frequency. For me, it's a tilt towards private lists and closed source development (not exclusively -- I'm still a big supporter of a strong public sector). I'm learning why open source is a bad idea sometimes. I've talked to Stallman about this, though he probably doesn't remember -- I was in his audience in Portland and asked about situations when "they" simply *don't deserve* your best code. But I think more it's a matter of not wanting to show unfinished work (a big no no in Fuller's self discipline, according to 'Critical Path' I think it was). Kirby

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Rich Data Streams
by kirby urner Sept. 5, 2007

Sept. 5, 2007

The idea of rich data structures was to take advantage of the Internet by providing students with more meaningful precoded data through which to plow. Examples: * all the bones in the body as a tree structure (with some fancy networking among skull bones) * GIS info (I posted cities.xml from Winterhaven) * the eight planets of our solar system, plus Pluto and Iris (the latter owned by CBS (smile)). The idea of a rich data stream anticipates Python 3's strong powers around data bitting (new bit type), which'll make OO dissection of IPv6 packets (legacy IPv4 packets) a cinch. Kids'll groove in their ability to really dissect what's going on over the wire (sniffed from the ether or whatever). Rather than encourage too much interloping on neighbors' comm channels (a favorite hacker pass time I realize), we need canned data streams of a simplified "cave painting" nature, with known solutions. Like it'll be a goal of the packetsniffer.py package to zip through these canned packets at high (enough) speed, and to spit back reports on whether they're tcp or udp, used by which flavored protocols and so on (you need ideas about protocol if you hope to reconstruct the payload, for all but the simplest of containers). Students will grow to understand tcp/ip by reading packetsniffer's deliberately *non*-obfuscated source code. What a relief to see it all in Python, vs. staring at low-level C structs all the time. Most would die of boredom before getting there. Python keeps it less boring. I'm aware that the Python Community hasn't waited for Python 3 before beginning work in this genre. Python has some of the more sophisticated networking tools around, including flagship peer to peer bittorrent in wx. Python is *truly* an effective language, which is why certain unnamed schools of low standards prefer students to concentrate on maybe Visual Basic or Java. The former is toothless enough (minus the ActiveX add-ons), and the latter is difficult enough, that relatively few in those two camps are as likely to experience the free flowing and comprehensible style we Pythoneers simply take for granted. Tough luck for them, and best wishes on some next iteration.** Kirby ** of course this rhetoric is full of false dichotomies, I realize. Many of us who code in Python likewise enjoy Java and VB.NET sometimes, or C# or whatever. I came to Python via Java from xBase (which I still use), and before that APL (which got me spoiled on always wanting REPL). So to heap scorn on BASIC, which I'm not doing, is really ahistorical anyway. There wasn't any Python way back then, especially not on the ROM chip when you booted the PC. However, I *do* still oppose this misguided "Python: the new BASIC" meme. I think that's stupid, as it overlooks Python's way stronger potential owing to its much higher level of design sophistication. "Python ain't yer grandfather's BASIC" is the slogan I'd prefer. Too bad JavaScript is so poorly named, as it'd be a better runner up to Python (because of the DOM) than most 2nd banana languages.

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Re: [Edu-sig] Size of browser/window in school computer labs
by Richard Guenther Aug. 27, 2007

Aug. 27, 2007

1024 x 768 seems to be the norm at my high school (1500 students). Right now I'm wrestling with our district tech dept to get them to install some OSS text editors and also Python. I can't believe how paranoid they are.... Richard ----- Original Message ---- From: Andre Roberge <andre.roberge(a)gmail.com> To: "edu-sig(a)python.org" <edu-sig(a)python.org> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:42:04 PM Subject: [Edu-sig] Size of browser/window in school computer labs Hi everyone, I got some feedback today from someone who was using a *much* smaller size monitor than what I normally use and, after testing, realized that Crunchy (as currently designed) assumes that the display is much bigger than 800x600. So my question is: what size monitor is used in *your* school/college/university's computer lab? André _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&…

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Re: [Edu-sig] Rich Data Streams
by Richard Guenther Aug. 26, 2007

Aug. 26, 2007

More data resources here: http://www.lttechno.com/links/spreadsheets.html the best part of the above page is probably the link to: http://www.k12science.org/collabprojs.html Richard ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Ajoy <da.ajoy(a)gmail.com> To: edu-sig(a)python.org Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:26:01 AM Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Rich Data Streams On 26 Aug 2007 at 12:00, edu-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > Yeah, excellent raw material with real world applications. > > E.g.: > http://wiki.gleducar.org.ar/wiki/Nombres_Propios_de_Personas > I used that dataset to decode an anagram. A person in a blog had said: I love [anagramedName]. I wanted to know who that person was. I used Logo, though :) Another good one could be real normal-distributed data. Specially if it comes from something that has world wide importance. also, world temperature measurements. distances between cities how do you say "I love you" in different languages. dates of important geological events. .... Daniel _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

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Re: [Edu-sig] Rich Data Streams
by Daniel Ajoy Aug. 26, 2007

Aug. 26, 2007

On 26 Aug 2007 at 12:00, edu-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > Yeah, excellent raw material with real world applications. > > E.g.: > http://wiki.gleducar.org.ar/wiki/Nombres_Propios_de_Personas > I used that dataset to decode an anagram. A person in a blog had said: I love [anagramedName]. I wanted to know who that person was. I used Logo, though :) Another good one could be real normal-distributed data. Specially if it comes from something that has world wide importance. also, world temperature measurements. distances between cities how do you say "I love you" in different languages. dates of important geological events. .... Daniel

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Re: [Edu-sig] Rich Data Streams
by Daniel Ajoy Aug. 25, 2007

Aug. 25, 2007

For the OLPC I had suggested the following datasets http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Educational_content_ideas/data_sets Daniel

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Namespaces for Children
by kirby urner Aug. 25, 2007

Aug. 25, 2007

Here's an excerpt of stuff posted to Wwwanderers (another Yahoo! group I frequent). My purpose is sharing it here is to suggest how some classrooms *might* be introducing the concept of namespaces to children, using chemistry and Sim Earth style simulations for themes. More on PHYSOC this month: http://listserv.uark.edu/archives/physoc.html ==== sample session slash source code === >>> from ecology import StateOfMatter >>> StateOfMatter.Gas """ StateOfMatter.Gas: molecular degrees of freedom maximal though not excited to plasma state (vertex-bond universal joint symbol). """ >>> StateOfMatter.Liquid """ StateOfMatter.Liquid: more hinge-like and fluid, as if edge bonded (but not really -- the math is actually quite complicated!) """ etc. Plus inside SolarSystem.py we find: class Planet (OrbitingObject) : """ A dynamic of gases, liquids and solids, plus radiation and gravity. Gibbs Phase Rule pertains. Please subclass this Planet for your own Planet classes. """ def __init__(self, theplanet = "Earth", time = "2007 AD") # default # self.__dict__ local namespace gets # populated from SQL database by # Gas, Liquid and Solid objects pass def run(self): # gets us going, called from default # Solarsystem object pass def orbit(self): # some mechanical model goes here # (take your best shot -- Newton's # is pretty cool), or accept superclass # default pass def collide(self, other): # if thinking to play a game of # Velikovskian Pool (not my game, # but some like it...) pass def main(): mysun = Sun() myplanet = Planet() mysun.add(myplanet) mymoon = myplanet.add(Moon()) mysolarsystem = SolarSystem(mysun, planets = (myplanet,)) mysolarsystem.run() # whatever business rules so... >>> from solarsystem import main # not case sensitive >>> solarsystem.main() Kirby

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Re: [Edu-sig] Scratch interface for Python, and network programming
by Toby Donaldson Aug. 24, 2007

Aug. 24, 2007

>> I am also thrilled by the idea of Scratch in Python, but this brings >> us up against the limitations of the web. The fact that Scratch apps >> can be shared on the web is a crucial advantage. Could Python Scratch >> be targeted to Jython to provide sharability? > To Jython, or if we keep to the limited functionality of Scratch, to > Flash, which would be more self-contained (and faster) than Java. > Another advantage to using PyGame is that we could provide export to > self-contained executables, to run the games on Mac, Windows, or > Linux. Scratch itself has not yet been ported to Linux (sad, since it > is built on top of Squeak, which runs fine on Linux), keeping it off > of platforms such as XO and my trusty N800. > > I like the idea of virtual Roombas, especially as a leaping-off point. > I can imagine kids costomizing their Roombas: spinning blades, laser > turrets, even Steampunk Roombas. Once they have a platform to build > on, anything is possible. Robocode has done something similar in Java: http://robocode.sourceforge.net/ I've used Robocode with 1st year university students, and while a few students really go into, most found it only mildly interesting, like an old-fashioned video game. Roomba (Create) simulation software exists at least for player/stage (http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/) and Microsoft Robotics Studio (http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/robotics/default.aspx). I know Python is popular with Player/stage, and it has 2D graphics (3D in progress), and the ability to use simulations of real sensors (e.g. expensive laser sensors). It's more of a research tool, but packaging it up in an education distribution might be worth considering. The Microsoft Robotics Studio comes with impressive 3D graphics, and also physics, e.g. so when to Sumo iCreate's bump into each other, they lift up off the ground a little. Some of the demos are nice; I have no idea if it works with Python, though. By the way, here's an interesting video using 36 Create's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_kZmatqAaQ And speaking of the Create, it's quite a nice, cost-effective robot, and worth looking at for educational purposes: http://www.irobot.com/sp.cfm?pageid=305 It would be fun to connect a Create into the Python turtle package to simulate the old turtle graphics drawing robots. If you haven't seen the demo video, it's worth a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT2bPx9k7D4 Toby -- Dr. Toby Donaldson School of Computing Science Simon Fraser University (Surrey)

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Re: [Edu-sig] Rich Data Streams
by Laura Creighton Aug. 24, 2007

Aug. 24, 2007

In a message of Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:07:32 CDT, Jeff Rush writes: >I've just been frustrated lately across several spheres of life with how >very >hard it is to get people, in general, to get involved, to take on meaning >ful >projects even those they agree are valuable. The explanation eludes me a >nd >keeps me awake at night and I ask those I meet from other walks of life w >hy. One reason is that having ideas is easy. Work is work. One thing that I have found that has had a limited amount of success -- though better than near 0 success, as was before -- is for you to step in, take the idea, and break it down into tasks that would need doing before it is implemented. This may need collaboration with the idea-haver, but not always. Then organise something -- a sprint, say to go make code out of the idea. People are justifiably afraid of getting involved in a project that could suck up all their available free time and more, and give them a responsibility that they will be stuck with forever. If the thing starts out as shared, there can be some trust that it won't become an intolerable burden later -- and that ducking out later to do something else that is interesting won't damage a community that in some way has become dependent on you. Laura

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Re: [Edu-sig] Rich Data Streams
by Laura Creighton Aug. 24, 2007

Aug. 24, 2007

I just saw this: http://www.gapminder.org/ play the TED video. Then go play with things here: http://www.gapminder.org/gapminderworld/help/gapminder_world_help.htm This has been done by the Karolinska Instititet in Stockholm. The 'Create your own project' part does not appear to be ready yet, but I think that this would be a lot of fun to use. Laura

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