Mailman 3 July 2018 - Edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] False alarms?
by Sergio Rojas 10 Jul '18

10 Jul '18

> here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science… I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was under the impression that the ideas presented in the post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, when Mathematica was getting its way into the classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" were already familiar to teachers. In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565), with the advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) via SymPy. I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very rough (much more than the first draft of my book). Sergio > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:57:05 -0700 > From: kirby urner <kirby.urner(a)gmail.com> > To: "edu-sig(a)python.org" <edu-sig(a)python.org> > Subject: [Edu-sig] false alarms? > Message-ID: > < > CAPJgG3T3MFbL5AABOhzGm9P5fA49H72+vh+FrokO5Z3mqCpjpA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Apropos of earlier discussions that > ?assignment in ? > Python is about giving names to objects, > ?and ? > not putting those objects in boxes, here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science… > > Excerpt: > > === > > Making matters worse, programming languages like Java, JavaScript, Python, > Scratch and Alice all rely on the concept of assignment. Assignment means > that a value is ?stored in a box?, and that the value in that box can be > changed. Here?s a simple JavaScript program that demonstrates this: > > x = 10 > > x = x + 2 > > The first line of code assigns the value 10 into a box named ?x?. The > second line reads the value back out, adds 2, and assigns the new value > back into x. When the program finishes, x contains the value 12. > Unfortunately, the semantics and syntax are completely incompatible with > mathematics! In math, names are given to values, not boxes. > > === > > Following Kenneth Iverson, I think pre-computer math notations (MN) could > benefit a lot from an infusion of ideas from these newer executable > languages. > > He turns around the criticism of x = x + 2 by pointing out the ambiguity on > in conventional math notation (MN): > > === > MN uses the symbol = for a relation, but also uses it for assignment, as in > the expression (Let) x=3. Again, to denote these two distinct notions > without ambiguity, programming languages use distinct notation (that > usually includes the symbol =), as in := (in ALGOL), and =: (in J). > === > > http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm[http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/ca… > > Drawing a line in the sand and saying "on this side is programming" whereas > "on this other side is math notation", seems more a bureaucratic maneuver > than anything. > > There's a protection racket going on where self-appointed authorities are > planning to warn us against "doing it wrong" i.e. not their way. Many > bogus certifications will follow. Not that we shouldn't have standards. > The question is who's. > > math = math + cs > > Kirby > ? >

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Re: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching
by Andrew Harrington 09 Jul '18

09 Jul '18

Not a full IDE, but the fine free CS1-ish text https://runestone.academy/runestone/static/thinkcspy/index.html has the ability to enter Python directly into the browser and run it. When you get to advanced stuff and long programs, it makes sense to switch to a real IDE, but for a painless start, interleaved with exposition and online tests with feedback, it is great. Dr. Andrew N. Harrington Computer Science Department Graduate Program Director gpd(a)cs.luc.edu Loyola University Chicago 207 Doyle Center, 1052 W Loyola Ave. http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh Phone: 773-508-3569 Dept. Fax: 773-508-3739 aharrin(a)luc.edu (as professor, not gpd role) On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:30 AM Andre Roberge <andre.roberge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed specifically > for teaching, with information about the primary targeted audiences and > would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for additions or > corrections. So far, I have > > Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): > > * young learners (elementary and high school students) > > * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own > > * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) > students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical tool > to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms or > learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list > comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does not > add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. > > * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future > courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would likely be > covered. > > Editors / IDEs : > > * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. > * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily > intended for CS 101. > * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily intended > for CS 101. > > I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had > included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or no > longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to Reeborg's World.) > > Best, > > André > > > >

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Re: [Edu-sig] False alarms
by Perry Grossman 07 Jul '18

07 Jul '18

plus 1: math = math + cs On Sat, Jul 7, 2018, 12:00 PM <edu-sig-request(a)python.org> wrote: > Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to > edu-sig(a)python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > edu-sig-request(a)python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > edu-sig-owner(a)python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. false alarms? (kirby urner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:57:05 -0700 > From: kirby urner <kirby.urner(a)gmail.com> > To: "edu-sig(a)python.org" <edu-sig(a)python.org> > Subject: [Edu-sig] false alarms? > Message-ID: > < > CAPJgG3T3MFbL5AABOhzGm9P5fA49H72+vh+FrokO5Z3mqCpjpA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Apropos of earlier discussions that > ?assignment in ? > Python is about giving names to objects, > ?and ? > not putting those objects in boxes, here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science… > > Excerpt: > > === > > Making matters worse, programming languages like Java, JavaScript, Python, > Scratch and Alice all rely on the concept of assignment. Assignment means > that a value is ?stored in a box?, and that the value in that box can be > changed. Here?s a simple JavaScript program that demonstrates this: > > x = 10 > > x = x + 2 > > The first line of code assigns the value 10 into a box named ?x?. The > second line reads the value back out, adds 2, and assigns the new value > back into x. When the program finishes, x contains the value 12. > Unfortunately, the semantics and syntax are completely incompatible with > mathematics! In math, names are given to values, not boxes. > > === > > Following Kenneth Iverson, I think pre-computer math notations (MN) could > benefit a lot from an infusion of ideas from these newer executable > languages. > > He turns around the criticism of x = x + 2 by pointing out the ambiguity on > in conventional math notation (MN): > > === > MN uses the symbol = for a relation, but also uses it for assignment, as in > the expression (Let) x=3. Again, to denote these two distinct notions > without ambiguity, programming languages use distinct notation (that > usually includes the symbol =), as in := (in ALGOL), and =: (in J). > === > > http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm > > Drawing a line in the sand and saying "on this side is programming" whereas > "on this other side is math notation", seems more a bureaucratic maneuver > than anything. > > There's a protection racket going on where self-appointed authorities are > planning to warn us against "doing it wrong" i.e. not their way. Many > bogus certifications will follow. Not that we shouldn't have standards. > The question is who's. > > math = math + cs > > Kirby > ? >

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false alarms?
by kirby urner 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Apropos of earlier discussions that assignment in Python is about giving names to objects, and not putting those objects in boxes, here's a blog post raising the alarm that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science… Excerpt: === Making matters worse, programming languages like Java, JavaScript, Python, Scratch and Alice all rely on the concept of assignment. Assignment means that a value is “stored in a box”, and that the value in that box can be changed. Here’s a simple JavaScript program that demonstrates this: x = 10 x = x + 2 The first line of code assigns the value 10 into a box named “x”. The second line reads the value back out, adds 2, and assigns the new value back into x. When the program finishes, x contains the value 12. Unfortunately, the semantics and syntax are completely incompatible with mathematics! In math, names are given to values, not boxes. === Following Kenneth Iverson, I think pre-computer math notations (MN) could benefit a lot from an infusion of ideas from these newer executable languages. He turns around the criticism of x = x + 2 by pointing out the ambiguity on in conventional math notation (MN): === MN uses the symbol = for a relation, but also uses it for assignment, as in the expression (Let) x=3. Again, to denote these two distinct notions without ambiguity, programming languages use distinct notation (that usually includes the symbol =), as in := (in ALGOL), and =: (in J). === http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm Drawing a line in the sand and saying "on this side is programming" whereas "on this other side is math notation", seems more a bureaucratic maneuver than anything. There's a protection racket going on where self-appointed authorities are planning to warn us against "doing it wrong" i.e. not their way. Many bogus certifications will follow. Not that we shouldn't have standards. The question is who's. math = math + cs Kirby

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Re: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching
by Wanjun Zhang 04 Jul '18

04 Jul '18

Hi, We recently had to pick a beginner-friendly python editor for our Invent to Learn summer program. We also teach a lot of Raspberry Pi based Intro to Python workshops for kids and adults alike. In addition to editor/IDE, there’s another category to consider - specialized education platform - For instance, EarSketch <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EarSketch> is a programming environment made specifically to teach coding through sound mixing. Over the years we tried Trinket.io, PyCharm Edu, Visual Studio Code, Mu, iPythonNotebooks, Earsketch, Processing in Python mode, Thonny, IDLE + some I don’t remember. For us, it’s about prioritizing specific goals for our students and our program. For the summer program we are working with FabLab Houston to equip students with both maker skills and programming skills. They will learn Python with the Raspberry Pi with first the Minecraft Pi api, then sensor stuffs with Circuit Python on Adafruit’s Circuit Playground Learning Express, then Processing in Python mode to visualize some data with neopixels. For Fab Lab our goal is also to 1. train FabLab staff members with enough programming skills so they can deliver the Invent to Learn program without us, 2. produce open source curriculum from this program for other makerspaces. Ultimately, I think it should be up to the specific teacher to pick out features - as programmers we tend to look at specs and numbers, but we must also prioritize setting up educators for success - they are the frontline workers delivering the service. For instance, trinket.io is our go-to because a lot of educator’s don’t have admin access to their computers, so web-based editor that is easy to use and specifically made for education is great. However we do recognize the value in exposing our students to tools that developers use - like PyCharm. This is our pro and cons list off of the top of my head for choosing an editor for different partners and educators that we work with: - *Platform* - can we do things in command line on the computer that is available to us, whether that’s a raspberry pi, mac, or pc? Trinket.io is a great web-based solution if that’s an issue. - Existing *resources and community* - are there educator resources? Is this random IDE made by one person as a marketing exercise? if open source, when is the projects' last pull request? The Thonny Editor is awesome because there are a lot of high quality curriculum from https://projects.raspberrypi.org/ Same goes for Trinket.io. - Learning Curve for *educator *- If a teacher is teaching this and not a developer, are they able to successfully use this tool? Do we expect them to learn to use the terminal? Again, Trinket.io is a great starting point. - Learning Curve for *student *- Does the IDE/Editor have too many options? Not enough? What is the cognitive load for the student. *- Utility for student* - Do we want to provide a real world developer experience for our students? Or is our goal to have them build something as to inspire. Is this a long term program or a short term project? Do we want learners to quickly go through turtles (trinket.io) or be exposed to developer tools (pycharm)? After much consideration, we chose Thonny and also Python mode in the Processing IDE for our three week program. Hope this helps. Best, Wanjun Zhang codeparkhouston.org On July 3, 2018 at 10:06:00 AM, edu-sig-request(a)python.org ( edu-sig-request(a)python.org) wrote: Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to edu-sig(a)python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to edu-sig-request(a)python.org You can reach the person managing the list at edu-sig-owner(a)python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: turtle coordinates: Y increase downards - as in most graphics API? (kirby urner) 2. Editors/IDEs for teaching (Andre Roberge) 3. Re: Editors/IDEs for teaching (Nicholas H.Tollervey) 4. Re: Editors/IDEs for teaching (Andre Roberge) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 09:32:44 -0700 From: kirby urner <kirby.urner(a)gmail.com> To: "edu-sig(a)python.org" <edu-sig(a)python.org> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] turtle coordinates: Y increase downards - as in most graphics API? Message-ID: <CAPJgG3QfGJ4rf3BHP1AmZf+DMCo=oLwjcPPbnnUvSAEw5KaHVA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks for your persistence on this Andre. I agree with you that this is a serious bug. Curriculum writers down the road will steer clear of Python's turtle if it's not up to responding sanely to left and right. Our loyalty should be to teachers and teaching material developers in the future, not as much to prior editions with unfortunate workarounds. Kirby On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Andre Roberge <andre.roberge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:50 PM Jurgis Pralgauskis < > jurgis.pralgauskis(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Ok, I could test it :) >> >> >> Should I wait for some commit and comment results on the issues site or >> how...? >> > > ?Jurgis: Could you just apply the patch I submitted locally and test it? > > Or would anyone else volunteer to test it? Obviously, I can provide an > independent test of my own contribution. :-)? > > >

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CircuitPython+CPX = minimal setup to lean Python
by Carl Karsten 03 Jul '18

03 Jul '18

As education enthusiasts, I highly recommend attending (or watching the video, I am going to give it extra attention) https://www.pyohio.org/2018/schedule/presentation/39/ Sunday 12:45 p.m.–2:45 p.m. in Suzanne Scharer """ CircuitPython is Python that runs on microcontrollers. It's designed for learning and it's super simple to use. If you're new to programming or electronics, CircuitPython can help you get started with both. All you need to do is plug in a microcontroller board, open any code editor, and start editing. ... """ I attended a 1 hour version of this about a month ago. I was blown away by how fast you can get to "ok, lets run python code that makes lights blink" I now keep a device/cable with me and have had random people plug it into their mac/win/linux laptop, the lights start blinking (because it runs some python code on boot) and with a few clicks they can see/edit the code that is running. Make some changes, hit save, the device reboots and runs the changed code. There are 100 more things I can say about the sensors and mu and graphs and how much fun and engaging it is, but that will distract from how quick we go from nothing to editing and running python code. On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Andre Roberge <andre.roberge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:52 AM Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll(a)ntoll.org> > wrote: >> >> On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: >> > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and >> > hobbyists. >> >> Nope. >> > Thanks! > > >> >> I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it >> says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) > > > > I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been > struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be designed > for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. (For example: > anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, like Microsoft Word.) > I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. Other software can be > designed to be used by young children. I did not see Mu being designed to > be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I am wrong and should simply > think of the target audience as "everyone" like I did for IDLE.... ? > > > > André >> >> >> The design reflects feedback given to the Raspberry Pi Foundation's >> education team, extensive UX and feedback from both beginner programmers >> and teachers. >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> N. >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig(a)python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >

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turtle coordinates: Y increase downards - as in most graphics API?
by Jurgis Pralgauskis 02 Jul '18

02 Jul '18

Hi, usually in computer graphics Y is counted to increase downwards. I casn do it with: setworldcoordinates(0, 400, 600, 0) but then, "right(..)" turns to the left :/ I could swap: right, left = left, right but on errror I get a bit misleading message >>> right() Traceback (most recent call last): File "<pyshell#10>", line 1, in <module> right() TypeError: left() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given) I thought to make this hack for kids, so better clearer error msgs... Any Ideas? Thanks :) -- Jurgis Pralgauskis tel: 8-616 77613; Don't worry, be happy and make things better ;) http://galvosukykla.lt

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