Mailman 3 June 2003 - Edu-sig

re: intro
by Arthur 12 Jun '03

12 Jun '03

Simon writes - >ah, so Shaun showed me some VPython stuff and lo! someone has written a povray >backend - so i'll be checking that out ... and no doubt finding reasons for using >my own code instead ;-} (the great thing about python is re-inventing the wheel is >usually pretty trivial) I have tried to make a small contribution to VPython's povray back-end. The version downloadable from the VPython site does not allow the export of VPython "faces" - triangle meshes. Povray3.5 added functionality that made that more possible, and I have added that functionality to povexport.py. Ruth Cabay, the original author of povexport.py for VPython is, I believe, vetting and testing the code for inclusion. In the meantime, if it comes up, I have it available. Art

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Re: python in high school
by Lee Harr 11 Jun '03

11 Jun '03

I do not think an IDE is really the way to start people off programming, but if you are running windows you may not have much choice. I can't imagine teachers really want to start teaching programming with graphical widgets like in vb. That said, I created a fairly complex application using PythonCard over the past couple of weeks, and it works pretty well. It is not an ide though. One thing you might want to look at is QT Designer on Linux or BSD. The ui files can be converted to python code automatically (for py-qt) using pyuic. Again, it is not a complete python gui, but the interface is very nice and the same ui code could be used from c++ also if that was of interest. Another way to go would be to teach programming using python to make games. I have a library of code built on pygame which makes getting started with programming much simpler: http://www.nongnu.org/pygsear/ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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intro
by Simon Burton 11 Jun '03

11 Jun '03

Hullo fellow python champions, thought i'd introduce myself. I lecture in programming and "design structures"(=math) to postgraduates in electronic arts at the Australian Centre for the Arts ant Technology (ACAT): http://www.anu.edu.au/ITA/ACAT/ I also work with artists programming python for real-time/interactive image/sound stuff. Yes, i have fun with python, that's a priority for me, but my background is in maths and I do hope to get back to being a scientist one day. Um, so what am i doing here? I'm just near to finishing a first semester of teaching python programming to total beginners. Boy did i learn a lot. And i'd like to share some of that with you all, in good time. But first, let's talk code. Simon. -- Simon Burton, B.Sc. Licensed PO Box A66 ANU Canberra 2601 Australia Ph. 02 6249 6940 \ ------------------------\ ------------------------/ http://arrowtheory.com /

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python in high school
by Rob Zaar 11 Jun '03

11 Jun '03

I am new to python ( and generally new to these intricacies and thus take all these comments as a stab at trying to say something without having the time to back them all up, yet, I think there is still a need to say them). I would like to use python as the programming language for the programming subjects we run. Ideally, it would be an easy task if Boa constructor were up to scratch (which I hope it will be soon, but not soon enough for our college) since having a graphical IDE is important. Price is important. I have come to python through plone (zope/cmf). We have a toss up between VB 6.0 and me pushing for python. The decision needs to be made soon for next year. We were using J++ (don't ask). Low price will push it past the 'all the other programming teachers like VB' hurdle, as long as it had an IDE that had drag and drop components. I think this would also be good for python in the long term in terms of increasing python use. Overall, there will be a general window of opportunity open while VB 6.0 schools hold off going to VB .NET. Once schools have good VB .NET resources available the majority of Victorian schools will probably jump the hurdle to VB .NET eventually. Your thoughts? Robert Zaar Head of Religious Education St John's Regional College DANDENONG Ph: 9791 3366 This E-mail and any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone, and you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. St John's Regional College does not represent or warrant that the attached files are free from computer viruses or other defects. The attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The liability of St John's Regional College is limited in any event to either the resupply of the attached files or the cost of having the attached files resupplied. Any representations or opinions expressed in this E-mail are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of St John's Regional College.

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book: Head First Java
by Jason Cunliffe 10 Jun '03

10 Jun '03

Head First Java Your Brain on Java - A Learner's Guide By Kathy Sierra, Bert Bates May 2003 Series: Head First 0-596-00465-6, Order Number: 4656 650 pages, $39.95 US, $61.95 CA, £28.50 UK http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfjava/chapter/index.html This might make some of you cringe.. Judging from the online samples it looks like it might be a good book to hand to kids [us all] who are just getting into programming. Would be cool if a Python version were available. I'd love to hear your reactions. - Jason

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re: Learning software for 10-13 year olds
by Arthur 07 Jun '03

07 Jun '03

>More to the point might be: >Debian Jr. Project >Debian for children from 1 to 99 >http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-jr/ >and >http://www.ofset.org/freeduc/ Guess I'm off on a consectutive post binge again. but having touted Freeduc I thought I should explore it further. And am excited by what I found and thought I might describe it further/better than previously. Freeduc makes available an iso image which is a run from CD Linux system chock full of apps of potential interest to children and K-12 educators. It is interntionized from the ground up. One boots by selecting a language. End of configuration option issues. It booted flawlessly on my Dell, welcoming me through my sound card, after having booted up a nice XServer. It starts Apache on boot and runs local help resources through it. My internet connection was found at boot, and I was browsing (with Galeon) not necessary aware wether I was local or on the Net. In other words I had done exactly 0 configuration and was quite well in business. A little remarkable, to me. Think it to be a great resource for someone such as Guido's neighbor. The latest image includes Python2.2.2. On the app side I see Sketch http://sketch.sourceforge.net/ prominently in the default menu system. don't see Idle, which is a shame. Guess I will start some lobbying for idle, vpython, and eventually - when it is truly ready for prime time, PyGeo - those coinciding with my own particular interests. The prime movers behind Freeduc are the developers of Dr.Genius, a 2d GUI based dynamic geoemtry construction kit. So I am dealing with folks quite knowledgeable about dynamic geoemtry software. Hoping they will see something innovative about PyGeo, in ways that are complementary to their own work. I have successfully redesigned PyGeo so that it works nicely from the interactive prompt - allowing geometric constructions to proceed interactively line by line. The main thing missing at this point being full users docs, and a good tutorial. My first stab at a start to the tutorial ends of being a general introducation to Python as experienced from the interactive prompt. My tact will be very non-technical, but will try to introduce Python "experientially" - most particularly making users aware of the interactive help facilities (I am building __doc__ strings into the PyGeo source), and some basic introspection facilities. E.g. walking through a dir() call before and then after an import has been made - giving, I hope, an intutitve sense of namespaces and what is happening behind the scenes. And then on to some specifics as to PyGeo. Art

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re: Learning software for 10-13 year olds
by Arthur 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

In a bit of synchronicity, a moment ago I searched on "terminal server Linux" becuase I need to access a client's machine running NT Terminal Server from my Linux box. I usually do it from my Windows portable - which is down. I know it to be easily done from Linux, but forgot the specifics. And came across this as a first page hit: Welcome to the K-12Linux Project! http://www.k12ltsp.org/ Which has a sub-project: http://k12ltsp.org/contents.html Welcome to the K12 Linux Terminal Server Project! aimed at providing easy access to network software infrastructure for use of Linux in education. And which also happens to give me the answer and link to my original question as to accessing NT terminal server - that being rdesktop.

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re: Learning software for 10-13 year olds
by Arthur 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Guido writes - >My neighbor has asked me for some suggestions for educational software >for her two boys, 10 and 13. She'd like them to get better computer >skills. In my own case, as a child of 40, the availability of Linux became the starting point of exploration below the most surface level of computers. I consider myself an open source fan, not a zealot. And would recommend she take a shot at a Linux install as a starting point. RH9.0 is a breeze. More to the point might be: Debian Jr. Project Debian for children from 1 to 99 http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-jr/ and http://www.ofset.org/freeduc/ catalogues a wide assortment of open source software (running on Linux) aimed at education and children. She knows best what might appeal to her children, so would recommed that she spend some time exploring the resources catalogued there. Art

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Fwd: Working engineers show frosh the ropes
by Jason Cunliffe 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

May 21 | 2003 | Tech Talk: Working engineers show frosh the ropes This is the third in a series of articles on educational initiatives that bring innovation into the classroom... "In electrical engineering, the students are not connected to the physical world any more. They are not ham radio operators; they have not taken apart their cars. As a result, there's a rather tenuous connection between the nice mathematical concepts and the practical applications in the real world," said Gerald Sussman, the Matsushita Professor of Electrical Engineering. "On the other hand, they're more sophisticated in some ways. They come in knowing how to program. So instead of teaching them to program, we teach them to solder." http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/tt/2003/may21/ed-computer.html Jason

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Learning software for 10-13 year olds
by Guido van Rossum 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

Excuse the slightly off-topic post. My neighbor has asked me for some suggestions for educational software for her two boys, 10 and 13. She'd like them to get better computer skills. Quoting from her email: > My older son just turned 13, and the younger is 10. I find my own > computer skills so inadequate for my needs, because of this I want > my kids to come be very computer literate. > > As I continued my search yesterday, I came across one program that > seemed excellent but perhaps a little to young for my kids called > Toon Talk. I then stumbled onto a program that seemed perfect for > me, called Macromedia Authorware. If they had a kid-oriented > interface on it would be perfect. (One where you made a rocket blast > off instead of a cloud move, as I learned to do yesterday. > > I want my kids to learn some basic programming, programming language > and website creation skills. If any of your colleagues are familiar > anything that can lead them through the process with interactive > tutorials, that would be great. It doesn't have to look like a > video game or have talking animals, but it can't be filled with huge > blocks of text to read either, because they won't bother. When I > find what I'm looking for, I'll probably use it myself as well. I > desparately need to develop some of my own skills [...] The restriction on huge blocks of text pretty much rules out any Python tutorials I am aware of -- but maybe there are some that I'm not aware of? I vaguely recall thinking that Toon Talk was pretty good -- opinions? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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