Mailman 3 March 2006 - Edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] Brainstorming about GNU Math
by ajsiegel＠optonline.net March 23, 2006

March 23, 2006

Kirby writes - >And it's not just programming >that's kept at bay, but computer graphics and animation. The >pre-college mainstream remains strangely bereft of serious-minded >spatial geometry It's frustrating how close and far we are from each other on this particular point, at the same time. Can we negotiate?? You insist - it seems to me (not directly in the quote above, but generally) - on making this a Fuller thing, and as such, something visionary, a bit rebelous, and certainly outside/beyond the of thinking of mainstream math educators. I have been able to demonstrate to you that a mathematician as mainstream as Felix Klein was pitching this exact point about spatial geometry- not abstractly in the laboratory but in seminars he conducted for pre-college math educators - at least 30 years before Fuller had a word to say on the subject. Different world views, you and I, I guess getting in the way. Klein is much more "from the mountain top" then Fuller, in my world - especially when we are talking about geometric ideas. And since we are talking about working within the academy, I think it important we have our facts straight, in terms of attribution of ideas. And from a pure *getting things accomplished* point of view, why present ideas in a way that makes them seem less mainstream, more tied to the insights of a Unique Genius, then they actually are, when one looks at the facts. Its just good math - in Kleins's presentation, at least. Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] Properties use case
by Laura Creighton March 23, 2006

March 23, 2006

In a message of Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:58:52 CST, "Michael Tobis" writes: >While PyPy is a most admirable endeavor, I can't imagine that it can >resolve this problem. I'll be most pleased to discover that I am >wrong, so please correct me. > >Is scientific programming a target usage of PyPy? Yes. >In particular, how could large arrays of numbers of homogeneous type >be handled outside the Numeric-type libraries in such a way that >efficient computation is possible and also provide a guarantee the >memory mapping of the data to allow interoperation with compiled >languages? This one is better discussed on pypy-dev(a)codespeak.net where you will get better answers from people who are actually implementing this stuff :-) >Surely a reimplementation of BLAS, Atlas, Lapack, etc is not part of >PyPy's mission. So how is the success of PyPy going to have great >relevance to Numeric/numarray/numpy users? We don't -- at least right now -- want to replace these cases where you use numeric because you really need a lot of linear algebra. (Though the goal is to make it easy for researchers to drop in algorithms that can speed up their code, so who knows what people will do with it, eventually). But a lot of people are using numeric simply for speed and more memory packing. These people will find it easier to write their programs in PyPy, just as some of them now find it easier to write their programs in straightforward python and then use Psyco. I could be wrong, but I don't think it is the linear algebra that Arthur wants, or needs. He wants 'bloody fast arrays'. And I think he will like tens of thousands of threads, too, though if these just means tens of thousands of chances to modify only part of your complex number, when you wanted an atomic action guaranteed to modify both parts as one, then he may hate it before he likes it. :-) > >mt Laura

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Re: [Edu-sig] From europython -- should we do Python for kids?
by Laura Creighton March 23, 2006

March 23, 2006

In a message of Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:17:42 +0100, Gregor Lingl writes: >Laura Creighton schrieb: >> I think doing this would be fun. Since the CFP hasn't gone out >> yet, we haven't really organised ourselves all that well yet. >> >> But I think that Introductory Python is a good idea. I wonder if >> a separate Python-for-the-kids section would be good as well, and >> how many kids we could get to Europython if we offered this? >> >> What do other people think of this? >> > >I'm considering to attend Europython this year - as it will take place >in Switzerland, which is not far from Austria ;-) and also after the end >of the school year in (eastern) Austria. > >Moreover I considered to give a short talk about, or presentation of, >the turtle module I'm currently developing. Please do. >Incidentally I've written a book "Python für Kids" (in German), a second > edition of which I'm going to prepare this summer. Make a talk about this, also. >So you can imagine that I would definitely be very interested in some >event like the one you proposed - as well as to further the use of >Python in education in general. > >As far as I know there was an educational track last year at Europython. > Will this also be the case this year. What will (or should) be the >relation to "Python for kids" that track? (part of? replacement?) Yes, there will be an education track. I am chairing it. >** Oh, I just noticed that your posting was a reply to some posting >elsewhere.** Yes, a posting to the europython mailing list. But I told them to come here to discuss what the education track should be doing. We have the freedom to do whatever we want as part of Europython. The question is, what do we want to do? I know some people from South Africa are coming, and would like to discuss 'teaching scientific computing using Python in South Africa'. I told Kirby, who is going to the Mark Shuttleworth computers and education bash (which is happening __real soon__, no? ) to be on the look out for interesting people to invite to Europython. The plan is for the Call for Proposals to go out today sometime, and then we can get a better picture of who wants to present what, but since this is a self-organising conference, the only real rule is 'what we get depends on what we do'. So I want to open this up for discussion. What do we want to accomplish and how? >In principle I also can imagine to give some beginner course ... > >Sorry for ending this posting so abruptly - it's early in the morning >here and I've to go to work. Will be back in the evening. Here too, and I am off to work as well. Take care, Laura > >Regards, >Gregor Lingl > >> Laura, brainstorming >> >> ------- Forwarded Message >> >> Return-Path: europython-bounces(a)python.org >> Delivery-Date: Wed Mar 22 23:27:56 2006 >> To: europython(a)python.org >> From: Jan Ulrich Hasecke <jan.ulrich(a)hasecke.com> >> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:37:10 +0100 >> >> Subject: [EuroPython] Python for Kids? >> X-BeenThere: europython(a)python.org >> >> Hello, >> >> I am interested to register for the europython and would like to come >> with my son. He is 13 and has started to program with python 2 years >> ago. He is interested in the game track of course. Are there any >> other events for "kids", interested in learning python? >> >> There is a very good book around in German "Python for Kids" for >> example. > >Danke für die Blumen! > >Are you planning to do some beginner courses or courses for >> advanced beginners? >> >> Sincerely >> Jan Ulrich Hasecke >> >> DZUG e.V. - Deutschsprachige Zope User Group - www.zope.de - >> www.dzug.org >> Forster Straße 29 - 06112 Halle/Saale >> Telefon +49 345 122 9889 9 - Fax +49 345 122 9889 1 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> EuroPython mailing list >> EuroPython(a)python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython >> >> ------- End of Forwarded Message >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig(a)python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> >> > >-- >Gregor Lingl >Reisnerstrasse 3/19 >A-1030 Wien > >Telefon: +43 1 713 33 98 >Mobil: +43 664 140 35 27 > >Website: python4kids.net

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Livewires question
by Mark Engelberg March 23, 2006

March 23, 2006

I just checked out the book "Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner" to see some examples of the livewires package in use. The book says that the version of livewires it uses has been modified to be "even simpler" than the original. Does anyone here know the precise changes that the author made? Thanks, Mark

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From europython -- should we do Python for kids?
by Laura Creighton March 23, 2006

March 23, 2006

I think doing this would be fun. Since the CFP hasn't gone out yet, we haven't really organised ourselves all that well yet. But I think that Introductory Python is a good idea. I wonder if a separate Python-for-the-kids section would be good as well, and how many kids we could get to Europython if we offered this? What do other people think of this? Laura, brainstorming ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: europython-bounces(a)python.org Delivery-Date: Wed Mar 22 23:27:56 2006 To: europython(a)python.org From: Jan Ulrich Hasecke <jan.ulrich(a)hasecke.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:37:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python for Kids? X-BeenThere: europython(a)python.org Hello, I am interested to register for the europython and would like to come with my son. He is 13 and has started to program with python 2 years ago. He is interested in the game track of course. Are there any other events for "kids", interested in learning python? There is a very good book around in German "Python for Kids" for example. Are you planning to do some beginner courses or courses for advanced beginners? Sincerely Jan Ulrich Hasecke DZUG e.V. - Deutschsprachige Zope User Group - www.zope.de - www.dzug.org Forster Straße 29 - 06112 Halle/Saale Telefon +49 345 122 9889 9 - Fax +49 345 122 9889 1 _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Pickling Polyhedra
by kirby urner March 23, 2006

March 23, 2006

OK, so this title is somewhat misleading, because pickling and shelving is one of the things I've not yet gotten around to, vis-a-vis Polyhedra. But let me tell you about some of the other things I've done (classic bait and switch, I realize). First, what data structures to use? Well, no need to reinvent the wheel here. Geometers discovered long ago that labeled vertices made a lot of sense, which suggests a dictionary. But we're not done. What vertices connect to what? Just edges (pairs of connected vertices) might seem like the answer but then figuring out the faces turns out to be hard, relative to how easy it'd be if the faces were simply a part of the data. And that suggests a list of tuples perhaps, the list being Faces and each tuple being a face. Within the tuple, labels, keys in a dictionary of saved Vertices. And what about edges? They derive from Faces, by means of a simple algorithm (weeding out duplicates is part of it -- the native Set type may prove useful). So what about the *values* of our Vertexes dictionary? [Vertexes: an intentional respelling, per Synergetics -- I like the 'x-marks-a-rail-crossing' aesthetic]. I vote for vectors (lovely alliteration). Of course the Clifford Algebra people may have other ideas, and I can't say I'd be against them. But for now, simple XYZ coordination is sufficient, or try our newfangled Quadrays, with only-positive four-tuples (a member of the "simplicial coordinate system" family -- "simplicial" from "simplex," our tetrahedron or "minimum system" in synergetic geometry). So that's the data structure: a dictionary of vertex vectors, gathered into face-tuples in a list. There's good practice with all three main collection types here, plus strings, if you use those to label your vertices (you could also just use plain integers, a popular choice among computational geometers). So one design pattern would be this: define your Polyhedron class to "eat" your data structures. Build in rotation, translation and scaling. Have the results of these operations be new polyhedra, i.e. these are not "changes in place" even if the rotations are minor. Every change begets a new self. Very Buddhist, very "be here now". Then, make a Writer superclass as a paradigm consumer of these Polyhedron objects (an icosahedron say, or rhombic triacontahedron of 120 T modules). The polyhedra themselves are fairly innocent of i/o. At this superclass level, maybe there's a default data dump, a YAML or XML generator. But anything more elaborate and application specific, such as a VRML, VPython, POV-Ray, EIG or LiveGraphics3D writer (and I've written all of these in my day), should simply eat a Polyhedron and scribble the file. The Polyhedron class itself remains blissfully ignorant of all these nitty gritty requirements. >From a students point of view, how might all this work? XML and file i/o is probably going to come through other topical segments. I'm a big fan of using kml files ("camel files") out of Google Earth. The syntax of class construction will likewise already be familiar, as will these basic Python data structures (dictionary, tuple and list). The Vector concept might be new though. We could start with that. Vector algebra is very graphical, plays well with geometry. A computer graphics savvy curriculum is going to need vectors. Implement these natively in pure Python. Then get into the rotation algorithms. 3x3 matrices should be sufficient (our newfangled Quadrays come with 4x4s, thanks to Tom Ace) -- no need for homogenous coordinates at this level. To rotate is to hit every unique vector in the Vertexes dictionary, and to spit back a new poly (now rotated). My inclination is to focus on POV-Ray early, as this full featured ray tracer offers hours of fun to those who would get lost in it. A Python polyhedron writer only takes advantage of a small subset of POV-Ray's capabilities, but there's much more to explore "off camera". A goal is to unleash the artist in each student, to give them high powered creativity tools. Yes, mastery of mathematics is important, but not at the expense of a well-developed sense of aesthetics. "Ethics = aesthetics" wrote Ludwig Wittgenstein, in his Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. Our Python-based mathematics aims for some Athenian style panache, not just for Spartan style bare bones efficiency. Where to go after POV-Ray I'm not so sure. I'm not sure it matters. Depends on the curriculum, the teacher, the student. Plus I'm expecting the IronPython branch to open new territory, hitherto unexplored. VPython is certainly fun, per Arthur's PyGeo, my Hypertoons, and any number of art-science projects that others may brainstorm. I'm looking forward to witnessing a lot of creativity in these areas, having helped craft a launching pad or starting gate, with plenty of help from others (Pythonistas, Pyconistos -- some in full Monty). Anyway, now that we've got Python and Polyhedra in the picture, I'm thinking mathematics learning will be a lot more rewarding and fun. Let the good times roll. Exercise: Relate the above design pattern proposal to the model-view-controller architecture. Explain how the above might be consistent and/or inconsistent with MVC concepts. ==== K. Urner 4D Studios PDX USA 2006.3.21

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python wrappers for gecode
by Laura Creighton March 22, 2006

March 22, 2006

Somebody was looking for these earlier. According to the bottom of this message, Logilab has a primative version of this now. Laura ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: python-logic-bounces(a)www.logilab.org Delivery-Date: Wed Mar 22 16:43:13 2006 Return-Path: <python-logic-bounces(a)www.logilab.org> Subject: Re: [Python-logic] Additional informations about the CSP library in Python From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Aur=E9lien_Camp=E9as?= <aurelien.campeas(a)logilab.fr> To: python-logic(a)www.logilab.org, saymon(a)netium.com.br, saymon(a)netium.com.br List-Id: Logic and constraint propagation for Python <python-logic.lists.logilab.org> On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 10:48 -0400, saymon(a)netium.com.br wrote: > Hello, > > I was looking for a CSP library to work with, as I have to make a software > that involves Constraint Satisfaction, and I found Logilab's library, > as a recommendation from my Master-in-Science course tutor (I am > studing in the university to get the MSc title in Artificial Intelligence). > > Now I am trying to use it, after reading a Python tutorial, > but I still have some problems on using that CSP library. Do you > have any additional documentation about it (the possible commands, > how they are used, etc.)? I think not. At this point, the source might be yout best documentation (it is quite readable). Note that all the available public methods are probably exposed in the web site demo. Which one do you feel is missing ? > I am working only with the informations you > published on the web page, and now they are not enough, as the software > I am building deals with constraints with numbers, not literals. There is nothing special about the kind of constraints you want to use. Logilab constraint.py is quite agnostic about that. Your have to ensure you give the correct operators (as constraints) to the repository ... You might feel that this package misses a very important optimisation : it lacks dedicated propagators for integer variables (basically a linear constraint solver) and thus its performance sucks in this area, compared to other more complete solvers. This pathological behaviour shows for instance in the naive specification of the send more money problem. If you need good performance with numbers, you should have a look at Mozart/Oz which contains a whole high-level constraint solving machinery - - which actually inspired logilab constraint package. Oz solver works very well and can help you debug your problem in powerful ways. If you are looking for *extreme* performance, then have a look at gecode, all written in plain C++, which is basically the Oz solver minus the concurrency management, but plus more stuff ... Note that there is currently a thin wrapper for python -> gecode currently in gestation at logilab. If you are interested in helping contraint.py benefit from the ultra-efficient gecode by completing the wrapper, you are welcome - just ask, and I'll talk with Ludovic here which is sitting on a primitive version of it. Cheers, > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > Saymon Erickson > Manaus - Brazil > _______________________________________________ > Python-logic mailing list > Python-logic(a)lists.logilab.org > http://lists.logilab.org/mailman/listinfo/python-logic _______________________________________________ Python-logic mailing list Python-logic(a)lists.logilab.org http://lists.logilab.org/mailman/listinfo/python-logic ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Brainstorming about GNU Math
by kirby urner March 22, 2006

March 22, 2006

Of course "gnu math" is a pun on "new math", more formally known as SMSG, and designed to ride a tsunami of cold war paranoia, when the USA first started "falling behind" in science and technology, as evidenced by Sputnik. "New math" was supposed to turn out a new crop of eggheads, prepared to keep the USA in the game, and you can't say the effort failed entirely. We got NASA and Apollo, and later The Mouse in Orlando, all products of these post WWII curriculum reforms. However, there was never a huge buy-in among rank and file teachers, who felt left out of the loop. Plus SMSG had its own problems... Rolling the scenario forward several decades, we've had the GNU/Linux revolution and the advent of more generous licensing agreements, complete with a new business ethic that deals kids in at the outset, as wannabee space cadets, as junior engineers. They quickly start learning, and in a few short years are out of the gate as players, spinning their own networks and lighting up the boards with new high scores, news of old records broken and so forth. The next generation starts ahead of the previous one, if all goes according to plan. That's called a learning curve. That's called future shock (especially if folks can't handle it, and go flying into buildings or whatever terrifying thing -- The Power of Nightmares is worth seeing on this ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430484/ )). With GNU/Linux and falling hardware prices comes greater access to sophisticated computing environments, such as only a cast of high priests had known before. The age of Turing Machines for Everyone had arrived. We'd be needing programs like CP4E to spread the love. Guido came up with a great language. The die was cast. Rolling forward some more, we have a big literature on file, but it's not that well organized. Hypertext glues it together, more than book covers, although the shelf space devoted to Python and related topics is respectable. In the meantime, OO has become well-established, so even if Python isn't your final destination, it's within the right track system. Switching to Java or C# is pretty easy, especially given Jython and IronPython use these for guts. As a Silicon Forest exec, my question is why non-OO problem solving, as taught on the math track, has all this political clout, whereas would be computer geeks have to drop out of school or sneak knowledge when not in class. Sure, there's some leakage, some osmosis, but for the most part it seems there's a dike, a barrier, designed to keep computer programming from "polluting" some purist tradition. And it's not just programming that's kept at bay, but computer graphics and animation. The pre-college mainstream remains strangely bereft of serious-minded spatial geometry, even in districts that could afford the low-cost diskless workstations or hand-me-down Pentiums. No A & B modules. No hexapents. What's the story here? Well, I don't think here is the right place to recap my analysis, but in gist: overspecialization has bitten us in the rear. This isn't a new conclusion. Bucky Fuller came to the same result. Lack of cross-disciplinary communication has hampered our ability to evolve the curriculum at a sufficient rate. We've fallen way behind. Again. But this time, there's no "new math" to the rescue. There's "gnu math" instead. Kirby

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Preview of Shuttleworth Summit (edu-sig exclusive)
by kirby urner March 22, 2006

March 22, 2006

Exclusive to edu-sig: Here's a sneak peak at what I'm kicking around in advance of the upcoming Shuttleworth summit in London, which is about getting our favorite snake more puppeteer-programmers in South Africa (as a means to an end, not as an end in itself, i.e. lots of other languages in play): http://www.4dsolutions.net/presentations/urnermindstorm.pdf (5 pages, no pictures) Kirby

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No Learning Patents
by Laura Creighton March 22, 2006

March 22, 2006

Some of you may be interested in signing this: http://www.noelearningpatents.net/ I will paste in the first paragraph so that this article looks much less like 'buy me' spam. What is this? This petition aims to alert European authorities and policy-makers to the dangers of software patents, and particularly to the negative impact they will have on education. The use of Information and Communication Technologies (ICT) to support and enhance teaching and learning, including e-learning, is now recognised as a key element in providing education which meets the needs and abilities of students, and prepares Europe to participate creatively, technologically and economically on a global level. Laura Creighton

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