Mailman 3 November 2003 - Mailman-Developers

Auto-response Enhancement Request
by Doug Selph 18 Nov '03

18 Nov '03

I have a request for an enhancement to auto-response processing. I use a mailman list for support request submission for our technical services team. The public can post requests to the list, while our tech services team makes up the list membership. I want non-members who post to receive an auto-response stating their message has been received and the request is in the queue. Blah, blah, blah. However, I want to be able to spare our tech services folks from the auto-responses when they post replies to the list, which we do for archival purposes. This seems like a feature that would be useful to others as well. Would it be possible to add an option to exclude list members from auto-responses? I would think a good place for the config setting (in the web interface) would be on the /mailman/admin/listname/autoreply page, just under the auto-response text entry. Proposed verbiage: "Should Mailman exclude posts from list members from auto-response processing?" I'm not a Python programmer, but I have implemented a quick hack for this the ~mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py. My hack, though, indiscriminately imposes this behavior on all lists hosted on the server, without consulting any list configuration options, which is obviously not the *best* way to accomplish it for most sites. I'm more than happy to share the code changes with anyone interested, though I don't intend to submit it as a patch.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] HTML archives are not updating
by Kaan 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Hi, I have spotted the problem. It took a few days unfortunately. The problem was the permissions. When copying from the old server to the new server permission was changed. Since there was a command to check permissions I had the idea of a problem with in permissions very lately. May be this command may be modified to check archive folders also. And I could not find any error messages in the mailman log messages. Best Wishes, Kaan Coskun Kaan wrote: > Hi, > > I am updating to mailman 2.1.3 from 2.0.13. I have copied the list files > and archive files to the new machine which mailman 2.1.3 is set up. Mail > list is functioning. I am sending and receiving mail over this mail > list. And maillist.mbox files is been updated. But HTML archives are not > updated. How can I check what is missing. > > As far as I know HTML archive updating is done by qrunner. May be some > info about this may also help. > > Best regards, > > Kaan Coskun

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] New SpamAssassin handler on sf.
by J C Lawrence 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:22:22 -0400 Jeff Warnica <jeffw(a)chebucto.ns.ca> wrote: > Uh, because ISPs cant be deleting mail, ever? Actually they can and do, constantly, now, today and for many yesterdays. > Tag everything and leave it up to something else to deal > with. This is quite possible with SpamAssassin installed at the MTA level. > Even if you want resonably scored spam not to reach Mailman by > silently deleting it, it would be more trouble to scan everything > except that destin for Mailman then to just scan everything. It is relatively trivial to configure the MTA to selectively scan mail, be it only mail destined for Mailman, mail destined for local accounts, or whatever. Additionally there are side-benefits from scanning all mail, or at least scanning at a layer higher in the protocol stack: it requires less customisation, grants greater overview of cross-spool mail behaviours (esp statistical), and is less invasive to the mail system in general (not every tool then needs to be SpamAssassin or other-scanner aware). <shrug> I finally threw SpamAssassin in as a scanner (not teergrube) under Exim last night and am now wrapping up getting TMDA able to run properly on an account behind a POP3/IMAP account (which loses all the envelope information that TMDA depends on). -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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RE: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & CPanel?
by Bob Puff＠NLE 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

The problem with cpanel is that it messes with the program configs in order to mould things into its proprietary setup. Once that way, its hard to mess with things, because they are not as they would normally be set up in a standard install. So in this example, the Mailman install is NOT the same as you would find on a webhost without cpanel. Its ok for people who just want to set up a server and let their users modify basic stuff, but its not for those who want to install custom software, or tweak stuff. I tried it on a box a while ago, and promptly reformatted after trying to figure out where they moved stuff, etc... Bob ---------- Original Message ----------- From: <Martin(a)Cleaver.org> To: "'Barry Warsaw'" <barry(a)python.org> Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:55:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & CPanel? > Hi Barry > > Ok, many thanks. Please see below for the full message. You'll note > that I'd lost all the text from the message. > > I'll send you the password for the list in a separate message. Feel > free to look or change the settings, and to create a new list for > testing. All my lists have this problem so I am sure it is nothing > that I have done wrong. > > I'm using Outlook XP 2002 SP-2, but my users (including Sean who > sent that last message) may be using something different. > > Thanks and regards, > Martin. > > > On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 13:23, Martin(a)Cleaver.org wrote: > > > Nick / Barry > > > Can you please at least acknowledge whether this is a known problem? > > > Many Thanks, > > > Martin. > > > =My main complaint is that the archives don't work with HTML postings > > > =rendering the mailing list practically useless. = > > > =Here's a typical mailing: <http://cp1.myhostdns.org/pipermail/social> > http://cp1.myhostdns.org/pipermail/social-announce- > ft2004_mbssrc.com/2003-No vember/date.html > > > = > > > =Here's my postings to the cpanel site: > > > = * <http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15928> > http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15928 > > > = > > > =And I am not alone: > > > = * <http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13383> > http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13383 > > I'm sorry I can't get into the cpanel forums. > > But I did look at that Pipermail message (you need to follow the > link to the one page that's in that date index). If I follow the > link to the GIF image, it shows up just fine. > > Please note that the rendering of messages such as > multipart/alternative are depending on list settings that I can't > see, such as which content types to pass or scrub. I also haven't > seen the original message so I don't know how what was posted > matches against the filter_mime_types and pass_mime_types settings > in the Content Filter section. There are also some site-wide > settings which describe how to archive things like HTML messages, > although I don't think that's what's happening here (it looks more > like some unintended content-types are getting scrubbed out). > > I can't see any bugs, but your list may not be configured the way > you want it for the types of messages being posted to it. > > -Barry > > -- > > Martin(a)Cleaver.org - +1 416 832 7759 > Melbourne Business School FT 2004 MBA Exchange Participant to Rotman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Xi Yu WEN [mailto:x.wen@student.mbs.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:22 AM > To: Social-announce-ft2004(a)mbssrc.com > Cc: Martin(a)Cleaver.org; Quan Zhang > Subject: [Social-announce-ft2004] East Meets West Lunch > > > > Welcome to the launch of the East Meets West Lunch Club!! Our launch > involves a delightful eastern lunch in the city this coming Monday, > 10 November. Our aim is to meet monthly for lunch alternating > between eastern and western themed restaurants. > > Please join us to explore the city and bridge the cultural gap. > > > > Monday's menu is set at $13 per person; > > including Chicken with Special Sauce, Sweet and Sour Pork and Beef with > Vegetables, all served with vegetable fried rice. > > > > Save December 5 for our next meeting; location to be announced. > > > > Time: 1:30 p.m. > > Date: 10 November 2003 > > Place: Num Fong Chinese Restaurant > > 271 Swanston Street, CBD > > > > > > > > > > - Quan (Calvin) Zhang, Xi Yu (Sean) Wen, > > Mindy Frink and Lisa Stevenson (founding members) > > > > > > RSVP to x.xx <mailto:m.frink@student.mbs.edu> @student.mbs.edu if > you plan to join. > > See you there! > > > > > > > > > > Sean Xi Yu WEN > > MBA - Class of 2004 > > Melbourne Business School ------- End of Original Message -------

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[Patch] Keyboard shortcuts in archive
by João Miguel Neves 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

[Note: I'm not a list subscriber. Any replies should include my e-mail address. Thanks.] A friend pointed me up to http://www.common-lisp.net/macho-archives/admin/2003-11/150.html and I found the idea of using the html accesskey attribute to browse through a mail archive with keyboard shortcuts was a good one. So I made a patch for what I'm using (mailman 2.1.3 from debian/sid). The attached patch adds the ability to use alt-n for the next message and alt+p for the previous message. Hope you like it, -- João Miguel Neves

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Re: Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 175, Issue 14
by Pat 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

TAKE OFF YOUR LIST >Send Mailman-Developers mailing list submissions to > mailman-developers(a)python.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mailman-developers-request(a)python.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > mailman-developers-owner(a)python.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Developers digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Uncaught bounce notification .. (Martin Maechler) > 2. Re: Uncaught bounce notification .. (J C Lawrence) > 3. Re: Uncaught bounce notification .. (Nigel Metheringham) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100 >From: Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification .. >To: J C Lawrence <claw(a)kanga.nu> >Cc: mailman-developers <mailman-developers(a)python.org>, Martin > Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> >Message-ID: <16308.36060.659955.861772(a)gargle.gargle.HOWL> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >>>>> "J" == J C Lawrence <claw(a)kanga.nu> > >>>>> on Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:05:45 -0500 writes: > > J> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:52:07 +0100 > J> Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > > >> My problem is that I get about 50 "Uncaught bounce notification"s per > >> day, only few of which are spam/virus related. > > J> Turn on VERP for a few days. > > J> -- > J> J C Lawrence > J> ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. > J> claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? > J> http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. > >Thank you, "J", for the suggestion, >but that seems not an option for two reasons > >1) we (currenly must) use sendmail and that doesn't seem to > support VERPing -- or at least we haven't found docu on that > >2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO > resources on the mail servert. Currently that server almost > constantly runs on load 2.5 -- 3 > (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..) > >------ > >OTOH, most of these "uncaught bounce notification" can quite >easily resolved by a human, i.e., the subscriber's e-mail can >very often be found in the bounce. >E.g., if they resend the full headers, I can find the proper >subscriber's address in a "Received:" header such as > >Received: from hypatia.math.ethz.ch (root(a)hypatia.ethz.ch [129.132.58.23]) > by cryforhelp.mr.itd.umich.edu (umich) with ESMTP id hAB7NrHc014893 > for <pgreen(a)umich.edu>; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:23:53 -0500 > >(hypatia is our own mail server) > >I.e., I think mailman's analysis of the bounce message leaves >room for improvement. Can you tell me where in the python code >this happens (so we might consider improving it here)? > >Best regards, >and thank you all for mailman! > >Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> http://stat.ethz.ch/~maechler/ >Seminar fuer Statistik, ETH-Zentrum LEO C16 Leonhardstr. 27 >ETH (Federal Inst. Technology) 8092 Zurich SWITZERLAND >phone: x-41-1-632-3408 fax: ...-1228 <>< > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:40:02 -0500 >From: J C Lawrence <claw(a)kanga.nu> >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification .. >To: Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> >Cc: mailman-developers <mailman-developers(a)python.org> >Message-ID: <10436.1068817202(a)kanga.nu> > >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100 >Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > > "J" == J C Lawrence <claw(a)kanga.nu> on Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:05:45 > > -0500 writes: > >> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:52:07 +0100 Martin Maechler > >> <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > > >>> My problem is that I get about 50 "Uncaught bounce notification"s > >>> per day, only few of which are spam/virus related. > > >> Turn on VERP for a few days. > > > 1) we (currenly must) use sendmail and that doesn't seem to support > > VERPing -- or at least we haven't found docu on that > >Mailman's VERP supports don't require VERP support in the MTA, merely >support for plus addressing. > > > 2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO resources > > on the mail servert. Currently that server almost constantly runs on > > load 2.5 -- 3 (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..) > >The added overhead is increased delivery expense in the form of more >disk IO, both for the initial delivery from Mailman, and the final >delivery to the target MX. The other overheads are fairly minimal given >minor MTA tuning. > >-- >J C Lawrence >---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. >claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? >http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:48:05 +0000 >From: Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham(a)dev.InTechnology.co.uk> >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification .. >To: mailman-developers <mailman-developers(a)python.org> >Message-ID: <1068817685.18487.17.camel(a)angua.localnet> >Content-Type: text/plain > >On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 13:40, J C Lawrence wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100 > > Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > > > 2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO resources > > > on the mail servert. Currently that server almost constantly runs on > > > load 2.5 -- 3 (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..) > > > > The added overhead is increased delivery expense in the form of more > > disk IO, both for the initial delivery from Mailman, and the final > > delivery to the target MX. The other overheads are fairly minimal given > > minor MTA tuning. > >Virus/Spam scanning should not be done for mail injection from mailman - >its already been scanned when it came through the MTA on the way into >mailman, so a second scan is completely superfluous and downright silly >when you have expanded the original incoming message into a number of >outgoing ones (even without VERP). > > Nigel. >-- >[ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham(a)InTechnology.co.uk ] >[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] > > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-Developers mailing list >Mailman-Developers(a)python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > >End of Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 175, Issue 14 >***************************************************

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification ..
by J C Lawrence 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100 Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > "J" == J C Lawrence <claw(a)kanga.nu> on Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:05:45 > -0500 writes: >> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:52:07 +0100 Martin Maechler >> <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: >>> My problem is that I get about 50 "Uncaught bounce notification"s >>> per day, only few of which are spam/virus related. >> Turn on VERP for a few days. > 1) we (currenly must) use sendmail and that doesn't seem to support > VERPing -- or at least we haven't found docu on that Mailman's VERP supports don't require VERP support in the MTA, merely support for plus addressing. > 2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO resources > on the mail servert. Currently that server almost constantly runs on > load 2.5 -- 3 (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..) The added overhead is increased delivery expense in the form of more disk IO, both for the initial delivery from Mailman, and the final delivery to the target MX. The other overheads are fairly minimal given minor MTA tuning. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification ..
by J C Lawrence 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:52:07 +0100 Martin Maechler <maechler(a)stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > My problem is that I get about 50 "Uncaught bounce notification"s per > day, only few of which are spam/virus related. Turn on VERP for a few days. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw(a)kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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RE: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & CPanel?
by Martin＠Cleaver.org 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Hi Barry Ok, many thanks. Please see below for the full message. You'll note that I'd lost all the text from the message. I'll send you the password for the list in a separate message. Feel free to look or change the settings, and to create a new list for testing. All my lists have this problem so I am sure it is nothing that I have done wrong. I'm using Outlook XP 2002 SP-2, but my users (including Sean who sent that last message) may be using something different. Thanks and regards, Martin. On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 13:23, Martin(a)Cleaver.org wrote: > Nick / Barry > Can you please at least acknowledge whether this is a known problem? > Many Thanks, > Martin. > =My main complaint is that the archives don't work with HTML postings > =rendering the mailing list practically useless. = > =Here's a typical mailing: <http://cp1.myhostdns.org/pipermail/social> http://cp1.myhostdns.org/pipermail/social-announce-ft2004_mbssrc.com/2003-No vember/date.html > = > =Here's my postings to the cpanel site: > = * <http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15928> http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15928 > = > =And I am not alone: > = * <http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13383> http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13383 I'm sorry I can't get into the cpanel forums. But I did look at that Pipermail message (you need to follow the link to the one page that's in that date index). If I follow the link to the GIF image, it shows up just fine. Please note that the rendering of messages such as multipart/alternative are depending on list settings that I can't see, such as which content types to pass or scrub. I also haven't seen the original message so I don't know how what was posted matches against the filter_mime_types and pass_mime_types settings in the Content Filter section. There are also some site-wide settings which describe how to archive things like HTML messages, although I don't think that's what's happening here (it looks more like some unintended content-types are getting scrubbed out). I can't see any bugs, but your list may not be configured the way you want it for the types of messages being posted to it. -Barry -- Martin(a)Cleaver.org - +1 416 832 7759 Melbourne Business School FT 2004 MBA Exchange Participant to Rotman -----Original Message----- From: Sean Xi Yu WEN [mailto:x.wen@student.mbs.edu] Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:22 AM To: Social-announce-ft2004(a)mbssrc.com Cc: Martin(a)Cleaver.org; Quan Zhang Subject: [Social-announce-ft2004] East Meets West Lunch Welcome to the launch of the East Meets West Lunch Club!! Our launch involves a delightful eastern lunch in the city this coming Monday, 10 November. Our aim is to meet monthly for lunch alternating between eastern and western themed restaurants. Please join us to explore the city and bridge the cultural gap. Monday's menu is set at $13 per person; including Chicken with Special Sauce, Sweet and Sour Pork and Beef with Vegetables, all served with vegetable fried rice. Save December 5 for our next meeting; location to be announced. Time: 1:30 p.m. Date: 10 November 2003 Place: Num Fong Chinese Restaurant 271 Swanston Street, CBD - Quan (Calvin) Zhang, Xi Yu (Sean) Wen, Mindy Frink and Lisa Stevenson (founding members) RSVP to x.xx <mailto:m.frink@student.mbs.edu> @student.mbs.edu if you plan to join. See you there! Sean Xi Yu WEN MBA - Class of 2004 Melbourne Business School

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PortableUnixMailbox versus UnixMailbox as superclass for Mailman's Mailbox class
by Richard Barrett 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Hello experts In MM 2.1.3, the Mailbox class defined in Mailman.Mailbox uses the standard Python class mailbox.PortableUnixMailbox as its superclass. This has caused me some grief with an unescaped 'From ...' line following a blank line in an mbox archive. The use of PortableUnixMailbox leads to a false splitting of this message when the mbox is being read by the next() function, with consequent failure in processing of the second, false, message. Having the mailbox.UnixMailbox class as the superclass of the Mailman Mailbox class prevents this problem. Can anyone tell me why MM's 2.1.3 code currently uses PortableUnixMailbox instead of UnixMailbox and what the downside is of my continuing to run my system with the modification to use UnixMailbox. Thanks in advance Richard ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Barrett http://www.openinfo.co.uk

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