Mailman 3 September 2019 - Mailman-Users

Messages delivered out of order and delayed
by Veronica Morris Sept. 17, 2019

Sept. 17, 2019

I run an active discussion group. Messages come and go from people all hours of the day. For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day! The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone. Some people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get that message in an hour, and others in a day. Most of our users use gmail. What can we do to fix this? As ours is a discussion group, timing is pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted by people not having read previous messages. Thank you! Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin) Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005 President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners veronica(a)psych.dog https://www.psychdogpartners.org http://www.doctorv.xyz https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed
by Russell Clemings Sept. 13, 2019

Sept. 13, 2019

FWIW, I've been seeing a lot more temporary ("We think you might be a spammer") delays from Gmail in the past few weeks. Usually the delays aren't very long, 10 or 15 minutes, and since it's throttling, they don't affect every message. That could definitely result in messages arriving out of order. On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:41 AM <mailman-users-request(a)python.org> wrote: > Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to > mailman-users(a)python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mailman-users-request(a)python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mailman-users-owner(a)python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Veronica Morris) > 2. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Veronica Morris) > 3. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Carl Zwanzig) > 4. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Mark Sapiro) > 5. Re: Messages delivered out of order and delayed (Brian Carpenter) > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Veronica Morris <veronica.m.psdp(a)gmail.com> > To: mailman-users(a)python.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:59:40 -0400 > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > I run an active discussion group. Messages come and go from people all > hours of the day. > > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day! > > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone. Some > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get > that message in an hour, and others in a day. > > Most of our users use gmail. > > What can we do to fix this? As ours is a discussion group, timing is > pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted by > people not having read previous messages. > > Thank you! > > Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin) > Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005 > President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners > veronica(a)psych.dog > https://www.psychdogpartners.org > http://www.doctorv.xyz > https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris > https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Veronica Morris <veronica.m.psdp(a)gmail.com> > To: Brian Carpenter <brian(a)emwd.com> > Cc: mailman-users(a)python.org > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:35:19 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > I am using dreamhost. > > Almost all of the people on the listserv use gmail. I have asked if people > with other email addresses experience the same problem, but no one has > replied. > > Is that what you mean by ISP? > > Sorry I am very new to this type of thing! I have no experience with > computers! > > I will contact Dreamhost, that is an excellent idea! > > Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin) > Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005 > President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners > veronica(a)psych.dog > https://www.psychdogpartners.org > http://www.doctorv.xyz > https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris > https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris > > > > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 12:30 PM Brian Carpenter <brian(a)emwd.com> wrote: > > > Hi Veronica, > > > > What hosting service/platform are you using for your discussion list? Are > > you noticing delays with the same ISPs or does it vary by ISP? I would > > reach > > out to your hosting provider and then let know of 3 list members that are > > experiencing consistent delays and they should be able to review their > mail > > log. If you are on cPanel then you can use the track delivery tool to see > > what is happening with those list members that are experiencing the > longest > > delays. > > > > Have a great day! > > > > Brian Carpenter > > EMWD.com > > brian(a)emwd.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com(a)python.org> On > > Behalf Of Veronica Morris > > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:00 AM > > To: mailman-users(a)python.org > > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > > > > I run an active discussion group. Messages come and go from people all > > hours of the day. > > > > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of > > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day! > > > > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone. > Some > > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get > > that message in an hour, and others in a day. > > > > Most of our users use gmail. > > > > What can we do to fix this? As ours is a discussion group, timing is > > pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted > by > > people not having read previous messages. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin) > > Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005 > > President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners > > veronica(a)psych.dog > > https://www.psychdogpartners.org > > http://www.doctorv.xyz > > https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris > > https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users(a)python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > Searchable Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Carl Zwanzig <cpz(a)tuunq.com> > To: mailman-users(a)python.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:29:29 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > On 9/13/2019 6:59 AM, Veronica Morris wrote: > > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of > > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day! > > Please remember that email is not a "real time" communication system; > might > look like it sometimes, but it's always "store and forward". > > > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone. > Some > > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get > > that message in an hour, and others in a day. > > For email, this is not abnormal. Mailman will generally "send" all of the > messages at once, but once they're handed off to the server, they're out > of > mailman's control. That server and succeeding ones can have any number of > delays occur (name resolution, receiving server is busy, held for spam > checks, etc). Also, once the sending server gets the email to any large > provider (i.e.gmail or yahoo), -they- may not process that immediately. > > In short, there isn't much you can do about this. If mailman is > personalizing messages, that can cause them to be sent individually > instead > of being batched, but in most cases you need that personalization anyway > for > things like DMARC mitigation. > > Later, > > z! > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> > To: mailman-users(a)python.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:37:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > On 9/13/19 6:59 AM, Veronica Morris wrote: > > I run an active discussion group. Messages come and go from people all > > hours of the day. > > > > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of > > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day! > > > > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone. > Some > > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get > > that message in an hour, and others in a day. > > > > Most of our users use gmail. > > > > What can we do to fix this? As ours is a discussion group, timing is > > pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted > by > > people not having read previous messages. > > > First, it appears that message delivery from Mailman is slow. There are > multiple possible reasons for this. It can be that SMTP delivery from > Mailman to the outgoing MTA is slow - see the FAQ at > <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892002>. If this is the case, the FAQ has > some suggestions for fixing this. > > It can also be the case that delivery from the outgoing MTA to the > various recipient MTAs is being throttled by the recipient MTAs. > Examination of the outgoing MTA's logs should reveal this. > > Also, if people reply-all to posts rather than replying just to the > list, the direct recipients will probably get the reply before the other > list members. > > In short, you need access to Mailman's logs and the outgoing MTA's logs > in order to diagnose this further. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Brian Carpenter <brian(a)emwd.com> > To: "'Veronica Morris'" <veronica.m.psdp(a)gmail.com> > Cc: <mailman-users(a)python.org> > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:39:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > You should be seeing almost instaneous deliveries with Gmail. The mail > logs will show what’s going on. I know Dreamhost doesn’t use cPanel but I > am not sure what mail server they us. I know Exim has some settings that > can interfere with the timely deliveries of messages. > > > > Have a great day! > > > > Brian Carpenter > > EMWD.com > > brian(a)emwd.com > > > > From: Veronica Morris <veronica.m.psdp(a)gmail.com> > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:35 PM > To: Brian Carpenter <brian(a)emwd.com> > Cc: mailman-users(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > > > > I am using dreamhost. > > > > Almost all of the people on the listserv use gmail. I have asked if > people with other email addresses experience the same problem, but no one > has replied. > > > > Is that what you mean by ISP? > > > > Sorry I am very new to this type of thing! I have no experience with > computers! > > > > I will contact Dreamhost, that is an excellent idea! > > > > Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin) > > Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005 > > President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners > veronica(a)psych.dog <mailto:veronica@psych.dog> > > https://www.psychdogpartners.org > > http://www.doctorv.xyz > https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris > > https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 12:30 PM Brian Carpenter <brian(a)emwd.com <mailto: > brian(a)emwd.com> > wrote: > > Hi Veronica, > > What hosting service/platform are you using for your discussion list? Are > you noticing delays with the same ISPs or does it vary by ISP? I would > reach > out to your hosting provider and then let know of 3 list members that are > experiencing consistent delays and they should be able to review their mail > log. If you are on cPanel then you can use the track delivery tool to see > what is happening with those list members that are experiencing the longest > delays. > > Have a great day! > > Brian Carpenter > EMWD.com > brian(a)emwd.com <mailto:brian@emwd.com> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com(a)python.org > <mailto:emwd.com@python.org> > On > Behalf Of Veronica Morris > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 10:00 AM > To: mailman-users(a)python.org <mailto:mailman-users@python.org> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed > > I run an active discussion group. Messages come and go from people all > hours of the day. > > For the past few months, we've noticed that messages are arriving out of > order, and sometimes are delayed by hours or even a day! > > The kicker is that the delivery issues are not the same for everyone. Some > people will get a particular message immediately, while others will get > that message in an hour, and others in a day. > > Most of our users use gmail. > > What can we do to fix this? As ours is a discussion group, timing is > pretty important so that the flow of the conversation isn't interrupted by > people not having read previous messages. > > Thank you! > > Veronica Morris PhD and Hestia SD (Japanese Chin) > Partnered with a psychiatric service dog since 2005 > President of Psychiatric Service Dog Partners > veronica(a)psych.dog <mailto:veronica@psych.dog> > https://www.psychdogpartners.org > http://www.doctorv.xyz > https://www.youtube.com/+VeronicaMorris > https://www.facebook.com/DrVeronicaMorris > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users(a)python.org <mailto: > Mailman-Users(a)python.org> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > -- =============================================== Russell Clemings <russell(a)clemings.com> ===============================================

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troubleshooting out queue backlog
by Kevin Bowen Sept. 12, 2019

Sept. 12, 2019

Hello, This morning my mailman instance (2.1.9) was not delivering any mail - mail was going into it but not going out. Restarting mailman and sendmail caused mail to start flowing again, but several hours later there still appears to be a backlog of several thousand files in /var/spool/mailman/out - they're draining, but only very slowly, with some of them dating back to this morning, around the time of the restart, and mail delivery appears delayed. I'm not sure if it just needs more time to drain the queue, or if something is stuck somewhere that needs to be removed - I don't see anything relevant logged, but I'm not sure if I'm looking in the right place or what I should be looking for. Can anyone give me any pointers to what i should be looking at to troubleshoot this? Kevin Bowen kevin.t.bowen(a)gmail.com <kevin(a)ucsd.edu>

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Trouble with hold back Mails
by Reil, Hans Sept. 11, 2019

Sept. 11, 2019

Hi, i am using mailman 2.1. I'm getting a notice when ther are messages to confirm. I log into mailman, and try to confirm. But eihter confirmation nor disposal works. The page is only refreshing and nothing else happens. I also can't find any entries in the error log or other log files. What can I do? Hans

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Debugging mass invitations using web page interface...
by The Mailing List Server Admin Sept. 5, 2019

Sept. 5, 2019

Dear Mailman Cognoscenti, I'm helping one of my list owners send out 5K plus invitations to students to subscribe to his mailing list. Our current configuration: Mailman v2.1.20 RHEL v5.11 Semdmail v8.13.8 Apache v2.2.3 Since this was the first time doing this, I suggested breaking the batch input into 3 groups, 50, 500, and the rest. The 50 went fine, as did the 500, but the largest batch gave him a generic web server error: > Internal Server Error > > The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was > unable to complete your request. > > Please contact the server administrator, root(a)conundrum.unh.edu and > inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might > have done that may have caused the error. > > More information about this error may be available in the server > error log. I looked at the logs and I couldn't find anything that hinted at what went wrong. So I asked the owner to send me the last back and I'd give it a try. I wrote a script that removed folks already subscribed to his list and split the remaining subscribers up into 6 files with a thousand records each. I just tried uploading the 1st batch of 1K, with the following options: Subscribe these users now... (*) Invite Send welcome message... (*) No Send notifications... (*) No And entered a 7 line paragraph explaining the invitation. I ended up having the same error happen. Looking at the Mailman logs, I can't see any difference before or after my submission. In the HTTPD logs, I see: >> [Fri Aug 26 19:59:23 2016] [warn] [client 132.177.215.132] Timeout >> waiting for output from CGI script >> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin, referer: >> https://lists.unh.edu/mailman/admin/campus.connection/members/add >> [Fri Aug 26 19:59:23 2016] [error] [client 132.177.215.132] >> Premature end of script headers: admin, referer: >> https://lists.unh.edu/mailman/admin/campus.connection/members/add So is there an inherent limit to the number of invites that can be submitted via the web form? As a work around, how would I do large invites on behalf of the owner from the command line, including the 'extra text' that is allowed via the web interface? -- Cordially, the UNH Mailing List Server Admins Bill Costa, senior admin (603) 862-3056

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